What a disaster the Tories are.

[MarshPhantom]

glazbagun said:

irocfan said:

I suspect that if we are blocked from Brexit there could well end up being some sort of civil disturbance - we've had 4 months of the remainers protesting, marching about the 'lack of democracy' WRT to Brexit, if the majority see their wishes overturned who's to say the nutty fringe won't start rising?

TBH, I think it's already too late.If the Parlimentarians (assuming of course that parliament actually opposes Brexit- LD's aside, I'm not sure any party has said they will in so many terms) defeat the Direct Democractists then we'll have much whinging and gnashing of teeth ala "We Are the 45" in Scotland.

The Remain Camp I view much as the No votes in Scotland, although Remainers are maybe more vocal since they lost and the Unionists won- the people with the most to lose from the status quo, they'll just cut their cloth accordingly and we'll suffer brain drain and a gradual flight of wealth.

The real loser is the UK though. We're now divided along IndyRef and EUref lines in addition to the previous Left/Right/Upper/Working class divides that existed during the Blair/Brown/Thatcher/Major years. All (IMO) due to David Cameron and his confidence that, by dividing his opponents (first the LD's, then the Scots, then his own party, which became England & Wales) against themselves, he could rule via the largest minority as opposed to the Blairist route of spreading (and thus diluting) his net to be as inclusive as possible- eaving his core support to appeal to the centre.

I can't see how we're in a better position today than we were in the aftermath of the Brown years and the financial apocalypse. We've cut the deficit, but not the debt, and now we're not even committed to cutting that anymore. Just what have the last six years been about? I can see how it played out in Cameron's head, and TBH, I reckon he was probably right on balance of probabilities at the time. BUt what he failed to learn form the IndyRef was just how little regard people have come to hold the establishment in these past five years.

Brexiteers, why not move to a country you do like rather than ruin my life?

Sounds the nasty bds of right wing press is all very angry this morning. fk em.

Edited by MarshPhantom on Friday 4th November 06:54

[MarshPhantom]

Tory voters, you vote Tory presumably because you like what they do and think they talk sense. They announce the referendum, tell you leaving the EU is a terrible idea but you still do it anyway.

How exactly does that work?

[MarshPhantom]

Smiler. said:

MarshPhantom said:

Tory voters, you vote Tory presumably because you like what they do and think they talk sense. They announce the referendum, tell you leaving the EU is a terrible idea but you still do it anyway.

How exactly does that work?

You socialists & labour supporters never have quite understood how democracy works, have you

Not going to answer the question? The Tories won the last election, they thought leaving was a stupid idea. Shouldn't there views be respected? That's democracy.

[MarshPhantom]

crankedup said:

don4l said:

crankedup said:

When I voted to leave the eu I voted to leave the eu and ALL the eu entails. I didn't vote for leave the eu but keep that bit and that bit as well. Anything less than a complete eu withdrawal I would consider to be a betrayal of the leave voters and an afront to our democratic principles and practices.

Weren't you a LibDem supporter?

I'm utterly confused.

BTW, I agree with everything that you have written.

Yes I was a Lib-xDem, however I could never agree with their stance on Europe, but could live with it whilst it remained a 'long grass' issue. When it became a live issue I had to drop my aliegence with the Party, although I still believe in many other of their Policies. Now I recognise that the Tories are taking a much more middle ground with Policy ambition under May, Politically this is much closer to my Political and Social makeup.

At least it wouldn't be a betrayal of all the people that didn't want the fking referendum in the first place.

I do remember until recently it was for a long time around 30% of the population that wanted out. What the hell happened.

[MarshPhantom]

boxxob said:

MarshPhantom said:

At least it wouldn't be a betrayal of all the people that didn't want the fking referendum in the first place.

I do remember until recently it was for a long time around 30% of the population that wanted out. What the hell happened.

those polls were wrong and the question had not been posed as an actual vote in a referendum. This is perfectly simple to understand.

Edited by boxxob on Friday 4th November 10:31

That's really helpful, thanks.

It's the brexiteers who've been whingeing about betrayal.

[MarshPhantom]

If you think the Tories are st, UKIP's new leader is going to have referendum on the death penalty.

[MarshPhantom]

SKP555 said:

UKIP don't even have a new leader yet do they? Let alone plans to restore capital punishment.

Though it's not a bad idea. It would piss the Remainers right off. So much that they might even stop moaning about Brexit.

I'm not making it up. Paul Nuttal, current favourite to take over, is death penalty referendist

What Briexit?

[MarshPhantom]

TEKNOPUG said:

MarshPhantom said:

SKP555 said:

UKIP don't even have a new leader yet do they? Let alone plans to restore capital punishment.

Though it's not a bad idea. It would piss the Remainers right off. So much that they might even stop moaning about Brexit.

I'm not making it up. Paul Nuttal, current favourite to take over, is death penalty referendist

What Briexit?

So? What is your point?

It seems a bit weird.

[MarshPhantom]

TEKNOPUG said:

MarshPhantom said:

TEKNOPUG said:

MarshPhantom said:

SKP555 said:

UKIP don't even have a new leader yet do they? Let alone plans to restore capital punishment.

Though it's not a bad idea. It would piss the Remainers right off. So much that they might even stop moaning about Brexit.

I'm not making it up. Paul Nuttal, current favourite to take over, is death penalty referendist

What Briexit?

So? What is your point?

It seems a bit weird.

They're not though, are they.

Firstly they would need to be in Government.

Then they would need to table a motion to the House to have a referendum on the death penalty.

Then the HoC would need to vote on it.

Only then would a referendum on the death penalty occur.


Which incidentally is exactly the same as happened with the EU Referendum. Tories in Government, motion to hold referendum, vote in HoC. A vote which resulted in a 6-1 approval of a referendum. That's 6-1 of ALL MPs, the vats majority of which are apparently Pro-EU. So, if you wanted to stay in the EU, the best thing to do was not to have a referendum in the first place. Yet all these Pro-EU MPs voted for one. How odd. Stranger still that you lay the blame squarely at the feet of the Tory Government, when the huge majority of MPs were Pro-EU and could simply have voted against the referendum. Especially as you claim that only 30% of the electorate even wanted one!

So what can we conclude from these events; that MPs are so out of touch with the electorate that they didn't realise that they didn't want a referendum? Or that MPs and the political classes are so out of touch with the electorate that they thought that a referendum would be an easy Remain victory and would put the matter to bed once and for all?

Or that Parliamentary Democracy is only a good thing when it produces the result that you want, such as a vote on A50 but is a bad thing when it produces a result you don't like, such as having a referendum in the first place?

So if he was running the country he'd try bring about a return of death penalty.

That's strange enough for me.

[MarshPhantom]

Hartley Brewer taking a beating on PM.

[MarshPhantom]

Smiler. said:

MarshPhantom said:

Hartley Brewer taking a beating on PM.

I expect she'd find your lacklustre performance on here equally amusing.

[MarshPhantom]

Tankrizzo said:

MarshPhantom said:

The reaction of PH when they see another trolly clickbait thread started by MarshPhantom.

You maybe, but like many in here do struggle with facts and figures.

[MarshPhantom]

don4l said:

SidewaysSi said:

glazbagun said:

SidewaysSi said:

May and her crack team are over in India building relations. Seems like the Indians will want to have easier access to visas so what will that do for immigration?

Well I am sure the British will get what they want and not have to give up anything.

Given that most immigration to the UK was already from non-EU countries, I think the rabid ranting about immigration being a reason for Brexit was a particular low point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_populat...

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-popula...

Seems like we will have more immigration to deal with. Not sure that is what we were expecting post the vote.

I'm not sure why you think that this will be a problem.

Indians have integrated very well in the past.

There were loads of Poles used to work at our local pit, they also integrated very well.

[MarshPhantom]

SidewaysSi said:

don4l said:

SidewaysSi said:

MarshPhantom said:

don4l said:

SidewaysSi said:

glazbagun said:

SidewaysSi said:

May and her crack team are over in India building relations. Seems like the Indians will want to have easier access to visas so what will that do for immigration?

Well I am sure the British will get what they want and not have to give up anything.

Given that most immigration to the UK was already from non-EU countries, I think the rabid ranting about immigration being a reason for Brexit was a particular low point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign-born_populat...

https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/statistics-popula...

Seems like we will have more immigration to deal with. Not sure that is what we were expecting post the vote.

I'm not sure why you think that this will be a problem.

Indians have integrated very well in the past.

There were loads of Poles used to work at our local pit, they also integrated very well.

Not a problem as such but Brexit was largely about limiting immigration.

Did you vote Leave because of immigration?

And I wanted the money for the NHS.

Do you not realise that was a big fat lie? Why aren't the brexiteers getting angry about stuff like this instead of the current situation?

Farage was saying on Andrew Marr yesterday there would be rioting if the brexiteers didn't get their way, the tt.

"we will see political anger the like of which we have never seen before".

When asked if he thought there'd be disturbance in the streets he said yes.

Edited by MarshPhantom on Monday 7th November 07:00

[MarshPhantom]

powerstroke said:

MarshPhantom said:

Do you not realise that was a big fat lie? Why aren't the brexiteers getting angry about stuff like this instead of the current situation?

Farage was saying on Andrew Marr yesterday there would be rioting if the brexiteers didn't get their way, the tt.

"we will see political anger the like of which we have never seen before".

When asked if he thought there'd be disturbance in the streets he said yes.

Edited by MarshPhantom on Monday 7th November 07:00

Well it would make a change to see normal people rioting rather than the trustafarins ,soap dodgers, and leftwing scum!!!

Maybe your side can kill some more people?