Calais transfer.
Discussion
rscott said:
SKP555 said:
rscott said:
Did you read the linked article? French government are saying they won't allow a replacement to develop there. Breaking up smaller sites is possible in the future, the big problem is taking on something the size of a small town...
Why do they need us to take in any people in order to demolish an illegal colony? It's still just providing a reward for being there, which is completely wrong morally and pragmatically. As it can't be proved they're not children, they're pretty much guaranteed to be granted asylum in France and so would then be entitled to apply to join their family members in the UK.
The Dublin Regulation allows France to transfer these children (or at least alleged children) to the UK instead of having to process them there.
Seems like we're being asked to take in a pretty small number to help the French clear a much larger problem. Reports suggest we're likely to be taking around 200 children, not a number likely to have a massive impact on our country in any way, shape or form.
If the French police are now preventing new arrivals joining the Jungle, then this is a reasonable step toward clearing it.
The principle behind it seems perfectly reasonable to me but, in typical civil service fashion, it seems to be a rushed, chaotic job, with insufficient validation of identities & ages.
Mr Snrub said:
Problem is those pictures go out around the world, so every 30+ migrant will fancy his chances now. Also begs the question where were these family members to help whilst they were in the jungle?
Agreed - that's why I said they needed to validate age & identity better. What are those family members supposed to do exactly to help?
Assuming we can actually verify that they are minors and they have genuine relations in the UK. But we already know it's heartless and nasty to ask these questions.
Better to keep it very simple. No reward for camping out in Calais.
If they get asylum in France and then apply to visit or join relatives legally in the UK then fine. This is simply making the problem worse.
Better to keep it very simple. No reward for camping out in Calais.
If they get asylum in France and then apply to visit or join relatives legally in the UK then fine. This is simply making the problem worse.
SKP555 said:
Assuming we can actually verify that they are minors and they have genuine relations in the UK. But we already know it's heartless and nasty to ask these questions.
Better to keep it very simple. No reward for camping out in Calais.
If they get asylum in France and then apply to visit or join relatives legally in the UK then fine. This is simply making the problem worse.
How is it making it worse? Once these are out, then there's fewer unaccompanied children, making the job of clearing the Jungle less complex. Better to keep it very simple. No reward for camping out in Calais.
If they get asylum in France and then apply to visit or join relatives legally in the UK then fine. This is simply making the problem worse.
The French authorities have said they're working to prevent new arrivals entering the camps, so getting some out is surely a good step toward closing it?
If I thought his was going to be the end of it, then I'd agree that 200 or so children (even if that does include a few young adults) from the camp with families already in the UK, is not goint to impact greatly on the UK.
The problem is that it never is the end of it... Realistically, just how effective are the French going to be at getting rid of the Calais camp? And even if they do manage to dismantle it, the problem is just going to de-camp and set up somewhere else like Dunkirk, which I think has already started to see it's previously small camp swell greatly in the past weeks. Give it another year and we'll have some more pop stars visiting the new camp(s) and the same calls for the UK to step up all over again.
I do genuinely feel sorry for people fleeing war zones in Africa and the Middle East, but I struggle to get my head around the mentality where, once out, they feel they have the right to pick and choose what European country the end up in. I can't help feeling that if I was in a similar situation and I ultimately wanted to get to the UK, I'd make do as best I could for 5 years in whatever European country I could get to first, until such time as I could apply for a passport, and then make my way (legally) to the UK.
The problem is that it never is the end of it... Realistically, just how effective are the French going to be at getting rid of the Calais camp? And even if they do manage to dismantle it, the problem is just going to de-camp and set up somewhere else like Dunkirk, which I think has already started to see it's previously small camp swell greatly in the past weeks. Give it another year and we'll have some more pop stars visiting the new camp(s) and the same calls for the UK to step up all over again.
I do genuinely feel sorry for people fleeing war zones in Africa and the Middle East, but I struggle to get my head around the mentality where, once out, they feel they have the right to pick and choose what European country the end up in. I can't help feeling that if I was in a similar situation and I ultimately wanted to get to the UK, I'd make do as best I could for 5 years in whatever European country I could get to first, until such time as I could apply for a passport, and then make my way (legally) to the UK.
blade runner said:
If I thought his was going to be the end of it, then I'd agree that 200 or so children (even if that does include a few young adults) from the camp with families already in the UK, is not goint to impact greatly on the UK.
The problem is that it never is the end of it... Realistically, just how effective are the French going to be at getting rid of the Calais camp? And even if they do manage to dismantle it, the problem is just going to de-camp and set up somewhere else like Dunkirk, which I think has already started to see it's previously small camp swell greatly in the past weeks. Give it another year and we'll have some more pop stars visiting the new camp(s) and the same calls for the UK to step up all over again.
I do genuinely feel sorry for people fleeing war zones in Africa and the Middle East, but I struggle to get my head around the mentality where, once out, they feel they have the right to pick and choose what European country the end up in. I can't help feeling that if I was in a similar situation and I ultimately wanted to get to the UK, I'd make do as best I could for 5 years in whatever European country I could get to first, until such time as I could apply for a passport, and then make my way (legally) to the UK.
Completely agree.. It's down to the French to manage it. It's not in their interests to let it build back up though - the agreement which lets them transfer some to us for processing is an EU law, so may well not be applicable in a couple of years time. The problem is that it never is the end of it... Realistically, just how effective are the French going to be at getting rid of the Calais camp? And even if they do manage to dismantle it, the problem is just going to de-camp and set up somewhere else like Dunkirk, which I think has already started to see it's previously small camp swell greatly in the past weeks. Give it another year and we'll have some more pop stars visiting the new camp(s) and the same calls for the UK to step up all over again.
I do genuinely feel sorry for people fleeing war zones in Africa and the Middle East, but I struggle to get my head around the mentality where, once out, they feel they have the right to pick and choose what European country the end up in. I can't help feeling that if I was in a similar situation and I ultimately wanted to get to the UK, I'd make do as best I could for 5 years in whatever European country I could get to first, until such time as I could apply for a passport, and then make my way (legally) to the UK.
Two things.
It's sending a broader message to potential migrants that if they push hard enough we will give in, especially if they claim to be children.
Secondly once they're here we will have an onslaught of tragic stories about the twins separated when one came to Britain, the guy who came across while his wife stayed and then found out she was pregnant etc etc, and 200 will become 400, 400 will become 800 and more.
We're being manipulated by people who want mass migration.
Claim asylum at a consulate or embassy. The only place border jumping should get you is prison. Deviate from that and more will come.
It's sending a broader message to potential migrants that if they push hard enough we will give in, especially if they claim to be children.
Secondly once they're here we will have an onslaught of tragic stories about the twins separated when one came to Britain, the guy who came across while his wife stayed and then found out she was pregnant etc etc, and 200 will become 400, 400 will become 800 and more.
We're being manipulated by people who want mass migration.
Claim asylum at a consulate or embassy. The only place border jumping should get you is prison. Deviate from that and more will come.
rscott said:
andymc said:
or sort out our own kids who are in vulnerable situations and are being exploited/raped/etc by immigrants
Only the ones exploited/raped/etc by immigrants? Do we leave the ones exploited/raped/etc by locals to suffer?
dandarez said:
That charity was TACT - who praised 'Gary Lineker' on his outing the many racists in this country - idiot!
Charities should stick to what they know best (this lot know how to ensure people like me never ever drop a penny in their begging tins, remember that name: TACT).
However, one good thing has come out of it.
Lineker has had a spanking! (his words) ...GOOD!
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/migrant-comme...
Ironic that these unaccompanied minors look a heck of a lot older than his most recent ex wife!! lolol Charities should stick to what they know best (this lot know how to ensure people like me never ever drop a penny in their begging tins, remember that name: TACT).
However, one good thing has come out of it.
Lineker has had a spanking! (his words) ...GOOD!
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/migrant-comme...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbiz/2005104/gary...
Child "confirmed as over 18" according to the Sun, after his fingerprints were checked against the UK's biometric database
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-of-the-first...
... how come he's already on that database then?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-of-the-first...
... how come he's already on that database then?
kev1974 said:
Child "confirmed as over 18" according to the Sun, after his fingerprints were checked against the UK's biometric database
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-of-the-first...
... how come he's already on that database then?
Maybe the 'Shave the Children' charity keeps records?http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-of-the-first...
... how come he's already on that database then?
kev1974 said:
Child "confirmed as over 18" according to the Sun, after his fingerprints were checked against the UK's biometric database
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-of-the-first...
... how come he's already on that database then?
Previously tried (and failed) to get in, so fingerprinted & deported?http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/one-of-the-first...
... how come he's already on that database then?
Some interesting details buried in this - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/gary-lineker-... - around the cuts in the Border Agency and why, perhaps, the migrants were let in the front door of the building in the full gaze of the media.
There is definitely a real sense of anger about this. My parents are lifelong Labour supporters who would vote Corbyn in as PM and they were looking at the pictures in disbelief. But there are those who just refuse to think otherwise - I said on another forum immigration should be restricted with all applicants checked and was immediately branded a bigot and racist
king outrageous!
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