Richmond Park by-election.
Discussion
MarshPhantom said:
AC43 said:
Justin Case said:
Zac Goldsmith supported Brexit in a constituency where 70% supported remain.
That's the nub of it.It's an opportunity for Londoners to their version of the Northern protest vote.
tdog7 said:
I'm so sorry, I forgot that the leave camp had 'had enough of experts' as Michael Gove so eloquently put it. Dismissing the value of education and knowledge probably does help if you want to be a brexiter though. (and before anyone gets too upset, I do acknowledge there are some valid reasons for leaving the EU)
Try using the whole quote, instead of just the four words which you think help make your point. Tdog says "there are reasons for leaving the eu". So I'll quote you as a leaver then yeah?
tdog7 said:
jmorgan said:
I have met some very well educated idiots over the years.
I'm so sorry, I forgot that the leave camp had 'had enough of experts' as Michael Gove so eloquently put it. Dismissing the value of education and knowledge probably does help if you want to be a brexiter though. (and before anyone gets too upset,I do acknowledge there are some valid reasons for leaving the EU)
)In fact this is a very good time to post a 5th reason because it slots in very nicely
Reason to leave Number 5 - Pre referendum I couldn't find a person that was "motivated to remain" to discuss the issue with (seems there are a few more motivated now) but at the time it was status quo nowt changes, fear of the consequences, unwilling to be tarred with the "little Englander" image or accused of racism or xenophobia.
Many people who took this "status quo" remain stance and discussed with me some of the issues I had with the EU agreed that I didn't fall into what they thought was a typical "leave" voter. I said to them I was as representative of a leaver as anyone else that wanted to leave - I tried to convince them that the vast majority of the media was trying to fool them - this was often where they went from thinking I was a reasonable Leaver to one with mental issues......
This really disappointed me - sure I got some good debates on forums, a few good discussion on Facebook but it's not the same as discussing face to face.
B'stard Child said:
According to many remain supporters on here there are no reasons for a leave vote that haven't been fully debunked....
I don't think that's the case at all, I for one certainly acknowledge several perfectly valid reasons for wanting to leave the EU, and many equally valid reasons for wanting to remain. In my case the economic case for remain is stronger than the sovereignty case for leave, but I can see why some would be happier being poor but 'free from the shackles of the EU'. Not me, greed is good.For me, I do my own thing and let the world continue around me, and the single market has been a glorious opportunity for those of us with an entrepreneurial spirit to make a very good living through trade. I don't feel oppressed by the EU, I don't care what shape my bananas are, it works for me. And my Lithuanian, Polish and Romanian workers are a damn sight easier to manage than the homegrown alternative.
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
According to many remain supporters on here there are no reasons for a leave vote that haven't been fully debunked....
I don't think that's the case at all, I for one certainly acknowledge several perfectly valid reasons for wanting to leave the EU, and many equally valid reasons for wanting to remain. In my case the economic case for remain is stronger than the sovereignty case for leave, but I can see why some would be happier being poor but 'free from the shackles of the EU'. Not me, greed is good.For me, I do my own thing and let the world continue around me, and the single market has been a glorious opportunity for those of us with an entrepreneurial spirit to make a very good living through trade. I don't feel oppressed by the EU, I don't care what shape my bananas are, it works for me. And my Lithuanian, Polish and Romanian workers are a damn sight easier to manage than the homegrown alternative.
it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate 
B'stard Child said:
You aren't coming across as a "motivated remainer" either it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate
I'm not sure what you mean by motivated? It was certainly the case that the leave side had the lion's share of obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands. On the whole, the remainers were more like the good folk of Richmond, quietly prosperous folks going about their daily business and seeing no reason for change. it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
You aren't coming across as a "motivated remainer" either it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate
I'm not sure what you mean by motivated? it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate The remain camp didn't have that either?
RYH64E said:
It was certainly the case that the leave side had the lion's share of obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands. On the whole, the remainers were more like the good folk of Richmond, quietly prosperous folks going about their daily business and seeing no reason for change.
Because change is bad? Life is good why do anything different?If the good people of Richmond had been fully behind the process to remain the result would have been a landslide to the Lib Dems - the percentage of the electorate voting would have been in the order of 80% not 50 the proportion of votes for the Lib Dem candidate would have been huge not 4% more.
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
You aren't coming across as a "motivated remainer" either it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate
I'm not sure what you mean by motivated? It was certainly the case that the leave side had the lion's share of obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands. On the whole, the remainers were more like the good folk of Richmond, quietly prosperous folks going about their daily business and seeing no reason for change. it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate No, the leave side just had the majority of votes. As for the nature of the voters themselves. the remain side had more than its fair share of spittle flecked, dumb, un democratic, bed wetting childish, wieners.
Pan Pan Pan said:
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
You aren't coming across as a "motivated remainer" either it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate
I'm not sure what you mean by motivated? It was certainly the case that the leave side had the lion's share of obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands. On the whole, the remainers were more like the good folk of Richmond, quietly prosperous folks going about their daily business and seeing no reason for change. it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate No, the leave side just had the majority of votes. As for the nature of the voters themselves. the remain side had more than its fair share of spittle flecked, dumb, un democratic, bed wetting childish, wieners.
B'stard Child said:
Because change is bad? Life is good why do anything different?
I guess people in Richmond saw little reason for change, people in Boston maybe thought differently. I've made sure that the current system works well for me, I'm very content, there's nothing I want that I haven't got or couldn't get. I don't need change, maybe if I lived in Boston I'd think differently. B'stard Child said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
You aren't coming across as a "motivated remainer" either it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate
I'm not sure what you mean by motivated? It was certainly the case that the leave side had the lion's share of obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands. On the whole, the remainers were more like the good folk of Richmond, quietly prosperous folks going about their daily business and seeing no reason for change. it's no wonder I struggled to find one that could engage in an enjoyable debate No, the leave side just had the majority of votes. As for the nature of the voters themselves. the remain side had more than its fair share of spittle flecked, dumb, un democratic, bed wetting childish, wieners.
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
Because change is bad? Life is good why do anything different?
I guess people in Richmond saw little reason for change, people in Boston maybe thought differently. I've made sure that the current system works well for me, I'm very content, there's nothing I want that I haven't got or couldn't get. I don't need change, maybe if I lived in Boston I'd think differently. B'stard Child said:
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
Because change is bad? Life is good why do anything different?
I guess people in Richmond saw little reason for change, people in Boston maybe thought differently. I've made sure that the current system works well for me, I'm very content, there's nothing I want that I haven't got or couldn't get. I don't need change, maybe if I lived in Boston I'd think differently. Will be interesting to see if the hard working locals step up to the mark to fill these jobs.
More likely is agricultural workers being given a free pass / visa if Brexit occurs
Pan Pan Pan said:
Point taken, but the remainers had Gob Geldoff on `their' side for heavens sake!
Don't forget Eddie Izzard as another unhelpful contributer to the Remain side.Neither Geldoff or Izzard were speaking for me.
But anyway the vote has been done, so there is no point in rehashing it.
RYH64E said:
B'stard Child said:
Good to hear but why Boston as the comparision?
Boston had the highest percentage vote for Leave at 75%.| Area | Place | % Leave |
| East Midlands | Bolsover | 70.83 |
| East Midlands | Mansfield | 70.86 |
| East | Fenland | 71.39 |
| East | Great Yarmouth | 71.5 |
| East | Thurrock | 72.28 |
| East | Castle Point | 72.7 |
| East Midlands | South Holland | 73.59 |
| East Midlands | Boston | 75.56 |
Gibraltar had the Highest percentage to remain at 95%
Richmond were a distant 17th in the order of percentages to remain.....
Seems hard to justify the comparison on that basis??
B'stard Child said:
OK but there were several areas that had percentages voting to leave at over 70%
Gibraltar had the Highest percentage to remain at 95%
Richmond were a distant 17th in the order of percentages to remain.....
Seems hard to justify the comparison on that basis??
Of the areas in your table, are there any where you'd choose to live?| Area | Place | % Leave |
| East Midlands | Bolsover | 70.83 |
| East Midlands | Mansfield | 70.86 |
| East | Fenland | 71.39 |
| East | Great Yarmouth | 71.5 |
| East | Thurrock | 72.28 |
| East | Castle Point | 72.7 |
| East Midlands | South Holland | 73.59 |
| East Midlands | Boston | 75.56 |
Gibraltar had the Highest percentage to remain at 95%
Richmond were a distant 17th in the order of percentages to remain.....
Seems hard to justify the comparison on that basis??
The point was made in response to your comment about change, I was suggesting that those living a comfortable, affluent life in leafy Richmond are less likely to vote for change than the good people of Boston, or Great Yarmouth, or Mansfield, or Thurrock. I'm not suggesting that change was the only reason why people voted as they did, but it was certainly a factor, as was the desire to stick two fingers up to the establishment (something else that the good folk of Richmond didn't feel the need to do).
Pan Pan Pan said:
B'stard Child said:
Not helpful..... If debating with backslash3ajd I'd say fine because it's then a balanced debate but with RYH64E I'm prepared to ignore the "obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands" comment because it adds nothing to the discussion and we are just starting to drill down in terms of discussion.
Point taken, but the remainers had Gob Geldoff on `their' side for heavens sake!Actually that kinda makes me reflect on my 273 reasons to leave
Nope provided the majority don't object (PH is a democracy of sorts) I'll continue popping them into threads wherever they are relevant to the subject discussed
I've then got a target to get thro 272 and finish with a very relevant number 273 in 158 days by my rough fag box calcs
Looks like I need to up my post rate.........
AnotherClarkey said:
Borghetto said:
I think that once we see how beastly the EU will be to poor old Blighty in the Art 50 negotiations - she'll have her work cut out keeping this seat at the GE.
That's odd, I seem to remember lots of experts during the referendum campaign saying that the EU would be nice and compliant during the negotiations since 'they need us more than we need them' and 'we buy lots of German cars' etc. etc. And those 'experts' may well be proven right. But don't you see that should the EU 'be beastly to the UK', that is punish us and in consequence every other member of the EU, then the case for leaving will have been 100% vindicated.
Only an idiot would want to be a member of an organisation whose only incentive to its members is fear of punishment should a member decide to leave.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff