Richmond Park by-election.
Discussion
RYH64E said:
Pooh said:
So you voted purely on the basis of your own self interest? I voted leave despite believing that a leave vote would probably be bad for me and my fledgling business, especially in the short term.
I voted leave because I think that it is in the best long term interests of the country as a whole.
Events may prove that that belief was wrong but it is the conclusion I came to after a lot of consideration.
Absolutely, that's exactly what I did. I also happen to think that what's good for me and my business is good for other businesses and hence the country, but what's good for me and my family is my main consideration in this and everything else I do. No apologies for that.I voted leave because I think that it is in the best long term interests of the country as a whole.
Events may prove that that belief was wrong but it is the conclusion I came to after a lot of consideration.
I really think the apocoliptic statements presented by remain as fact in the event of a leave vote were extreme, I consider the number on the side of a big red bus equally extreme BTW. What I do believe is more voters recognised the apocoliptic statements as fantasy than were convinced by the number on the side of a big red bus.... Strange world I live in.....
Actually my reason number 8 fits nicely but the list is on my PC and not the iPad I am using.....
jjlynn27 said:
Are you actually saying that all media outlets listed ( there is so much more ), they are all blinkered when calling that interview disaster and car crash? Seriously?
I've asked before, but could you provide a link to the interview that you're talking about. I can't find one which matches your description? TaB'stard Child said:
.... Now I appreciate that I've only posted 4 out of my 273 reasons to vote leave so please don't think I'm after a few to add to my list - it's complete already (although one to replace 273 would be appreciated by some who think that the Eurovision contest is nothing to do with the EU - fools all of them 
)
Australia is in the Eurovision song contest...)AW111 said:
B'stard Child said:
.... Now I appreciate that I've only posted 4 out of my 273 reasons to vote leave so please don't think I'm after a few to add to my list - it's complete already (although one to replace 273 would be appreciated by some who think that the Eurovision contest is nothing to do with the EU - fools all of them )
Australia is in the Eurovision song contest...)B'stard Child said:
I've then got a target to get thro 272 and finish with a very relevant number 273 in 158 days by my rough fag box calcs
Looks like I need to up my post rate.........
If you reduce your post rate to one reason every three days, then your last reason will appear in March 2019, which is when we actually complete the Leave process.Looks like I need to up my post rate.........
I think that there are strong reasons to remain. Yes, the EU does need reform, but I believe that we could help it better from being in rather than out. It is in our interests because we don't want a disfunctional union of countries on our doorstep. Free movement of people helps the economy, migrants tend to put in more than they take out of the economy, it is the exploitation of migrants by employers and landlords that causes a lot of the resentment, close down the businesses that break the law and put their owners in prison and there will be less anti-migrant feeling.
Security is also important. A strong united Europe is more likely to stand up to war criminal Putin trying to destabilise its Eatern borders and with a loose cannon about to enter the White House it is even more important.
There is a lot wrong with the EU, the one size fits all economic and fiscal policies being an obvious example, but we're not in the Eurozone, so we aren't too badly affected as a natiion.
The real cause of the dissatisfaction that is so widespread is the naked greed and selfishness of a small so-called elite, I'm afraid that blaming the EU is aiming at the wrong target. I don't know Richmond, but I'm pretty certain that it doesn't rate very high on any index of social deprivation, which may have been a factor in the by-election result?
Security is also important. A strong united Europe is more likely to stand up to war criminal Putin trying to destabilise its Eatern borders and with a loose cannon about to enter the White House it is even more important.
There is a lot wrong with the EU, the one size fits all economic and fiscal policies being an obvious example, but we're not in the Eurozone, so we aren't too badly affected as a natiion.
The real cause of the dissatisfaction that is so widespread is the naked greed and selfishness of a small so-called elite, I'm afraid that blaming the EU is aiming at the wrong target. I don't know Richmond, but I'm pretty certain that it doesn't rate very high on any index of social deprivation, which may have been a factor in the by-election result?
Edited by Justin Case on Saturday 3rd December 16:59
CaptainSlow said:
jjlynn27 said:
Are you actually saying that all media outlets listed ( there is so much more ), they are all blinkered when calling that interview disaster and car crash? Seriously?
No, by a good headline sells papers.Stop reading others opinions and form your own.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Justin Case said:
<snip>
Free movement of people helps the economy, migrants tend to put in more than they take out of the economy, it is the exploitation of migrants by employers and landlords that causes a lot of the resentment, close down the businesses that break the law and put their owners in prison and there will be less anti-migrant feeling.
Security is also important. A strong united Europe is more likely to stand up to war criminal Putin trying to destabilise its Eatern borders and with a loose cannon about to enter the White House it is even more important.
<snip>
Shouldn't really respond as we are not going to change the decision, but think it is worth highlighting a couple of points. Free movement of people helps the economy, migrants tend to put in more than they take out of the economy, it is the exploitation of migrants by employers and landlords that causes a lot of the resentment, close down the businesses that break the law and put their owners in prison and there will be less anti-migrant feeling.
Security is also important. A strong united Europe is more likely to stand up to war criminal Putin trying to destabilise its Eatern borders and with a loose cannon about to enter the White House it is even more important.
<snip>
The idea behind common borders and hence free movement relies upon collective decision making where all parties feel engaged and which can be shown to be a benefit to all parties.
This was blown apart when the German government actively encouraged more than 1m migrants to make the perilous trip to Germany and hence into Europe. Many eurozone countries were actively against this and yet they did it anyway.
Yes there needed to be a compassionate approach to war refugees from Syria, and this should have centred on making generous aid efforts to pay neighbouring countries to provide the necessary shelter and provisions to people affected by the war.
No form of democratic government can (or should) last without the retained consent of the people. And yet the European Commission, which is an important layer of government, continues to make little or no effort to fix the problems in people's lives. So instead it overseas pitiful growth rates across many parts of mainland Europe, massive unemployment and unresolved member state debt issues.
So whilst I voted Remain for reasons explained here many times, the fact is that the Eurozone project in its current form is broken - it doesn't listen carefully enough to its people and it will fall unless it reforms its arrogant, bureaucratic and unproductive attitudes.
Jimboka said:
Boston had one of the highest Brexit votes. Mostly due to the high number of migrants, who would typically do low paid / seasonal agricultural work.
Will be interesting to see if the hard working locals step up to the mark to fill these jobs.
More likely is agricultural workers being given a free pass / visa if Brexit occurs
Wouldn't that make brexit pointless? Oh yes.Will be interesting to see if the hard working locals step up to the mark to fill these jobs.
More likely is agricultural workers being given a free pass / visa if Brexit occurs
jjlynn27 said:
Right. The interview wasn't car crash but all those papers made up headline in order to sell more copies.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Which interview? I'm starting to think you've made it up, any chance of a link to the supposed car crash interview? I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Here's a link to Olneys car crash. She doesn't even say I'm going, she just bolts. Pathetic.
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sarah-olney-talkradio-...
brenflys777 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Right. The interview wasn't car crash but all those papers made up headline in order to sell more copies.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Which interview? I'm starting to think you've made it up, any chance of a link to the supposed car crash interview? I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Here's a link to Olneys car crash. She doesn't even say I'm going, she just bolts. Pathetic.
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sarah-olney-talkradio-...
brenflys777 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Right. The interview wasn't car crash but all those papers made up headline in order to sell more copies.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Which interview? I'm starting to think you've made it up, any chance of a link to the supposed car crash interview? I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Here's a link to Olneys car crash. She doesn't even say I'm going, she just bolts. Pathetic.
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sarah-olney-talkradio-...
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien...
Olney should have been better prepared for the JHB interview - but JHB was being a total t
t. She answered the questions reasonably until she thought "had enough of this rampant biased brexiteer attack". JHB and other brexiteers should reflect on the fact that remain were in a way lying when they said "we'd leave the SM" - they were pointing out the cake and eat it aspects of "staying in the SM" and "rejecting EU FMOL". It was, is and will remain a stupid contradictory negotiation objective that will see only losers - both the EU and the UK.
The question back to JHB should be how do you reject FMOL and retain good trading conditions - the only answer is usually a pathetic "that's for the govt to negotiate", or "we buy lots of BMWs".
Its just not good enough or convincing.
jjlynn27 said:
Right. The interview wasn't car crash but all those papers made up headline in order to sell more copies.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Sorry, your continued use of school-boyish references to a Farage following pretty much demonstrates your low thinking levels. I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
If you were able to follow the interview, Farage gave candid answers to the questions he was asked and at times had to ask the interviewer to stop perpetuating untruths about him. If you base your opinions on the large print in the media so be it but a more intelligent person would be able to form an unbiased opinion and possibly question how accurate the news is reported.
If this interview was a disaster for Farage then it didn't seem to affect him or his party, quadrupling their vote share in the GE and winning his almost single issue policy in the referendum. Not bad for someone suppossedely taken apart so fully!
///ajd said:
brenflys777 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Right. The interview wasn't car crash but all those papers made up headline in order to sell more copies.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Which interview? I'm starting to think you've made it up, any chance of a link to the supposed car crash interview? I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Here's a link to Olneys car crash. She doesn't even say I'm going, she just bolts. Pathetic.
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sarah-olney-talkradio-...
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien...
Olney should have been better prepared for the JHB interview - but JHB was being a total t
t. She answered the questions reasonably until she thought "had enough of this rampant biased brexiteer attack". JHB and other brexiteers should reflect on the fact that remain were in a way lying when they said "we'd leave the SM" - they were pointing out the cake and eat it aspects of "staying in the SM" and "rejecting EU FMOL". It was, is and will remain a stupid contradictory negotiation objective that will see only losers - both the EU and the UK.
The question back to JHB should be how do you reject FMOL and retain good trading conditions - the only answer is usually a pathetic "that's for the govt to negotiate", or "we buy lots of BMWs".
Its just not good enough or convincing.
///ajd said:
JHB and other brexiteers should reflect on the fact that remain were in a way lying when they said "we'd leave the SM" - they were pointing out the cake and eat it aspects of "staying in the SM" and "rejecting EU FMOL". It was, is and will remain a stupid contradictory negotiation objective that will see only losers - both the EU and the UK.
What utter nonsense.The suggestion Remain were in a way lying is utter garbage, considering you and umpteen others have suggested that prior to the referendum no-one even suggested this would happen (leave the SM), you've used Hannan on more than one occasion to demonstrate as much, and did as much only a week ago.
Stop making sh*t up.
///ajd said:
Its just not good enough or convincing.
Tough, and it is to some.don'tbesilly said:
///ajd said:
brenflys777 said:
jjlynn27 said:
Right. The interview wasn't car crash but all those papers made up headline in order to sell more copies.
I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Which interview? I'm starting to think you've made it up, any chance of a link to the supposed car crash interview? I understand that you are not the quickest of cats, so I'll repeat this slowly; I've seen the interview, and I've seen the exact same thing that people outside of Church of St Nige saw. Same thing that even Patric O'Flynn saw.
It must be conspiracy by MSM to portray NF in a bad light.
Here's a link to Olneys car crash. She doesn't even say I'm going, she just bolts. Pathetic.
http://talkradio.co.uk/news/sarah-olney-talkradio-...
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien...
Olney should have been better prepared for the JHB interview - but JHB was being a total t
t. She answered the questions reasonably until she thought "had enough of this rampant biased brexiteer attack". JHB and other brexiteers should reflect on the fact that remain were in a way lying when they said "we'd leave the SM" - they were pointing out the cake and eat it aspects of "staying in the SM" and "rejecting EU FMOL". It was, is and will remain a stupid contradictory negotiation objective that will see only losers - both the EU and the UK.
The question back to JHB should be how do you reject FMOL and retain good trading conditions - the only answer is usually a pathetic "that's for the govt to negotiate", or "we buy lots of BMWs".
Its just not good enough or convincing.
///ajd said:
JHB and other brexiteers should reflect on the fact that remain were in a way lying when they said "we'd leave the SM" - they were pointing out the cake and eat it aspects of "staying in the SM" and "rejecting EU FMOL". It was, is and will remain a stupid contradictory negotiation objective that will see only losers - both the EU and the UK.
What utter nonsense.The suggestion Remain were in a way lying is utter garbage, considering you and umpteen others have suggested that prior to the referendum no-one even suggested this would happen (leave the SM), you've used Hannan on more than one occasion to demonstrate as much, and did as much only a week ago.
Stop making sh*t up.
///ajd said:
Its just not good enough or convincing.
Tough, and it is to some.Hannah protested our relationship with the SM would be unaffected. I've said many in the Leave camp dodged the question of leaving the SM and dismissed Remain concerns over FMOL & SM are scaremongering nonsense. Waved away with statements about how much the EU wants to keep us in a good deal due to BMWs etc. Now THAT is looking increasingly like lies.
Recently Hannan has admitted there were many different views on it across Vote Leave, and also outlines a possible cake and eat it approach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=068xRE1VdrM
Good (presumably he wants to keep) - free movement of good between states
Bad (presumably he doesn't want) - external tariff
I'm not making stuff up to suggest there are a spectrum of views in Vote Leave on the subject.
I'm not making stuff up to suggest some like Davis and Hannan are talking today about how we retain our Single Market benefits.
It is "good enough for some" that there is no credible plan to achieve both SM benefits and FMOL. Well, they should start worrying that it is not good enough, as the loser will be FMOL, which we'll compromise on. I won't mind that, but the overall deal will still be rubbish - still paying, less influence, no change to immigration. No-one will be happy.
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