Richmond Park by-election.

[Biker 1]

MarshPhantom said:

Hard to believe the debate went as you described, leave voters as "chav scum".

"Clever" leave voters, if you're not happy with the way things are going why not get angry The Tories rather than the EU?

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

[B'stard Child]

brenflys777 said:

B'stard Child said:

You aren't talking about Eurovision now are you??

You are advocating change from within........

I missed out the smilie. The UK would have as much hope of successfully reforming EUrovision from within as Cameron had renegotiating with the EU!

Nil points. Terry Wogans corpse would be as likely to succeed.

I missed out a wink in protest at you missing out a laugh

Not to go too far off topic but Wogan was the only person who made the process worth watching

[///ajd]

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

[don'tbesilly]

B'stard Child said:

brenflys777 said:

B'stard Child said:

You aren't talking about Eurovision now are you??

You are advocating change from within........

I missed out the smilie. The UK would have as much hope of successfully reforming EUrovision from within as Cameron had renegotiating with the EU!

Nil points. Terry Wogans corpse would be as likely to succeed.

I missed out a wink in protest at you missing out a laugh

Not to go too far off topic but Wogan was the only person who made the process worth watching

It was a sad day when Wogan stopped doing the Eurovision and then passed away.

Wogan was the only person who could have been successful in reforming from within the Eurovision, and the argument for ever closer union that Wogan could have brought to the table would have been very powerful.

Wogan's Irish humour and charm was always difficult to deny

[WinstonWolf]

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

I had kinda hoped you'd bugger off if I voted leave, I'm left feeling mildly disappointed that you're still blathering on after all these months.

You've still not told us what you'll do with your life once we've left, is it because you won't have one?

[B'stard Child]

MarshPhantom said:

Biker 1 said:

JagLover said:

On that we also come back to the whole "more educated" vote remain question.

Exactly this.
I've had this 'discussion' rammed down my throat by a family member & his other half & also my boss & various work colleagues. What I find amusing is that out of all of them, I am the most highly qualified in terms of education, yet I voted out! The 'discussion' went something along the lines of: 'only the bloody chav scum with no education voted out - how dare they, they are not worthy! We were all lied to (only) by the leave campaign! There must be a second vote to avoid ambiguity!'
I am startled at this take on 'democracy', particularly by people who say they fought for our values, independence & democracy during WW2. It seems 17 million people in this country are uneducated, gullible chavs. The logical conclusion is that you should only be given the vote based on your university results, &/or IQ. Its been voted for, please can the powers that be just bloody well get on with it!

Hard to believe the debate went as you described, leave voters as "chav scum".

"Clever" leave voters, if you're not happy with the way things are going why not get angry The Tories rather than the EU?

My ire is generally directed at all politicians - UK or EU I'm not fussy - they've all been munching away with noses too buried to consider the impact of their inactivity in issues that matter to many people.

I believe whilst recent events haven't pulled their noses out - it has caused them to consider that their position at the food dispenser is a little more fragile than they previously thought it was.

In order to shore up their position they all need to effect some change that means they are seen to be working for the good of all.

Now the interesting aspect is will this change be "real change" or "same same dressed as change"

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

Why is he the clever leave voter?

You want to remove the insults from the debate and then by association you label the rest of those who debate with you.....

I'm sure for many people there were pros and cons for both sides - it's how I evaluated my position on the referendum

Reasons to Stay	Reasons to Leave
11	273

Still waiting for the answer to a question I asked - Did you have any pro points to Leave in your consideration of the referendum vote

[Piersman2]

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

Don't answer this, it's a trap!

You'll answer and ///ajd will spend hours arguing and picking apart and challenging every point you make rather than just being able to say fair enough and accepting your view point.

But, considering myself a 'clever' brexiter and becoming increasingly sick of the remoaners telling me that I didn't vote for what I wanted. To be clear.

I voted to leave because I did not want to be part of the EU machine any longer. I voted for Article 50 to be invoked and that we negotiate the best deal possible in the next 2 years, whatever that may be.

[///ajd]

WinstonWolf said:

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

I had kinda hoped you'd bugger off if I voted leave, I'm left feeling mildly disappointed that you're still blathering on after all these months.

You've still not told us what you'll do with your life once we've left, is it because you won't have one?

Can I assume you are not a clever leave voter then? Your post is just empty and nasty which suggests an inability to get off the bottom of the pyramid. Your post is typical of a certain type of leave voter on here. Rude and trying to stop discussion.

I've not seen biker1 post before, he might have an new take on things.

[WinstonWolf]

///ajd said:

WinstonWolf said:

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

I had kinda hoped you'd bugger off if I voted leave, I'm left feeling mildly disappointed that you're still blathering on after all these months.

You've still not told us what you'll do with your life once we've left, is it because you won't have one?

Can I assume you are not a clever leave voter then? Your post is just empty and nasty which suggests an inability to get off the bottom of the pyramid. Your post is typical of a certain type of leave voter on here. Rude and trying to stop discussion.

I've not seen biker1 post before, he might have an new take on things.

I'm merely pointing out that you appear to have no life outside EU threads. Have you ever considered getting one?

I'm also intelligent enough to fk off out now and enjoy the day, have fun

[don4l]

MarshPhantom said:

Hard to believe the debate went as you described, leave voters as "chav scum".

"Clever" leave voters, if you're not happy with the way things are going why not get angry The Tories rather than the EU?

Leave voters are very happy with the way things are going.

[Mario149]

Pooh said:

Mario149 said:

jonnyb said:

ClaphamGT3 said:

RYH64E said:

There's now a significant percentage of long standing Conservative voters, myself included, whose vote can no longer be relied upon.

I have been a Tory all my adult life but Theresa May's Tory party has never felt less like my party. I - and a large number of people that I know, are erring much more towards the Lib Dems.

I have been a life long conservative voter, no longer.

Already said this in another thread, but me too.

It sounds like I have a similar background but still intend to vote Conservative so I am genuinely curios why you are all so anti the Tories under May, is it because you are remainers or some other reason?

I explained this on another thread as well. In a nutshell, the Tories have lurched to the right with their pandering to the hardcore Brexiter / UKIP types. Their refusal to categorically condemn the attacks on the judiciary who were just doing their job - you've got heavyweight ex cabinet minsters etc saying that the judiciary are interfering and the gov say nothing. That's not acceptable in my book. The apparent willingness to treat leaving the EU and leaving the SM as one and the same (although that appears to be softening somewhat). The apparent unwillingness to try and get a deal the 48% who didn't vote for Brexit may at least be able to stomach.

[brenflys777]

don'tbesilly said:

B'stard Child said:

brenflys777 said:

B'stard Child said:

You aren't talking about Eurovision now are you??

You are advocating change from within........

I missed out the smilie. The UK would have as much hope of successfully reforming EUrovision from within as Cameron had renegotiating with the EU!

Nil points. Terry Wogans corpse would be as likely to succeed.

I missed out a wink in protest at you missing out a laugh

Not to go too far off topic but Wogan was the only person who made the process worth watching

It was a sad day when Wogan stopped doing the Eurovision and then passed away.

Wogan was the only person who could have been successful in reforming from within the Eurovision, and the argument for ever closer union that Wogan could have brought to the table would have been very powerful.

Wogan's Irish humour and charm was always difficult to deny

Wogan was perfect at mocking the process without being hurtful.

Someone on twitter (I can't find the tweet now unfortunately) pointed out that if the Lib Dem Richmond MP had any principles she would have continued to contribute to the interview and effect change from within, rather than abandoning it when it became a disastrous liability.

[RYH64E]

There's an interesting article in The Guardian this morning discussing the problems facing the Conservative Party. Of the 48% who voted Remain a significant percentage were Conservative voters and many of those will not be in favour of 'hard Brexit', indeed the official line of the party in the referendum was remain. Elections aren't won or lost by huge percentages, they're won by small amounts of swing voters in key seats, and the Conservatives can't afford to alienate a section of their core vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/03/h...

article said:

“The Conservative party needs to be alert that there is a moderate core of Conservative voters, who voted Remain, and who want to hear the Conservative government speaking above the noise of the Brexiters,” they say. “They do not want the Conservative party to be Ukip-lite, nor to hear that their desire for a negotiated Brexit … is somehow an attempt to delay or simply an expression of Remoaning.

They want the Conservative leadership to speak for them, too, and Richmond may be a reminder that their votes have another destination if we don’t get this right. That moderate voice is crucial for the party to keep the votes of the middle ground who could lose the Conservative party the next election if they take their votes elsewhere.”

[Mario149]

RYH64E said:

There's an interesting article in The Guardian this morning discussing the problems facing the Conservative Party. Of the 48% who voted Remain a significant percentage were Conservative voters and many of those will not be in favour of 'hard Brexit', indeed the official line of the party in the referendum was remain. Elections aren't won or lost by huge percentages, they're won by small amounts of swing voters in key seats, and the Conservatives can't afford to alienate a section of their core vote.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/03/h...

article said:

“The Conservative party needs to be alert that there is a moderate core of Conservative voters, who voted Remain, and who want to hear the Conservative government speaking above the noise of the Brexiters,” they say. “They do not want the Conservative party to be Ukip-lite, nor to hear that their desire for a negotiated Brexit … is somehow an attempt to delay or simply an expression of Remoaning.

They want the Conservative leadership to speak for them, too, and Richmond may be a reminder that their votes have another destination if we don’t get this right. That moderate voice is crucial for the party to keep the votes of the middle ground who could lose the Conservative party the next election if they take their votes elsewhere.”

I also came across this. Lib Dems got a 21% swing in Richmond, but what I didn't know is that they also got a 19% swing in DC's old constituency, Witney. It didn't affect the result in the latter, but repeat figures like that in more marginal constituencies and the Tories will start having problems.

http://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-by-electio...

[ClaphamGT3]

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

It's possible, I suppose, that there were some clever leave voters but there certainly weren't any intelligent ones

[brenflys777]

ClaphamGT3 said:

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

It's possible, I suppose, that there were some clever leave voters but there certainly weren't any intelligent ones

We're all winners though

[B'stard Child]

ClaphamGT3 said:

///ajd said:

Biker 1 said:

Some very choice language was used on several occasions - the boss was fuming, due to his perceived losses incurred in his rental portfolio..... Basically, only the thickos apparently voted to leave.

As a clever leave voter - why did you vote keave? What do you want/expect from a brexit outcome?

It's possible, I suppose, that there were some clever leave voters but there certainly weren't any intelligent ones

Thanks for your input - very illuminating

[MarshPhantom]

Boris made to look like a rather stupid child on Andrew Marr this morning.

[don'tbesilly]

MarshPhantom said:

Boris made to look like a rather stupid child on Andrew Marr this morning.

I could say exactly the same about Keir Starmer.