Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

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Discussion

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
quotequote all
amgmcqueen said:
Who came up with this 'four freedoms' nonsense?!
Treaty of Paris then Rome is where the slope was oiled.

It was those pesky French CESMs smile

FN2TypeR

7,091 posts

92 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
quotequote all
jsf said:
catso said:
jsf said:
To back remaining in the EU is ignoring the democratic will of the people, it is anti-democratic.
Indeed it maybe but, had remain won do you think Farage and all his fanboys would have simply accepted it?
No, they wouldn't.

Nothing stopping a new group starting a let's rejoin the EU campaign once we have left either.

But right now, the British people have instructed their government to leave the EU, so that must happen if you believe in democracy.
Many of these so called liberals seem to view democracy as mob rule and are looking to deny it by any and all means. Edmund Burke would be proud of them.

B'stard Child

28,324 posts

245 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
quotequote all
amgmcqueen said:
Who came up with this 'four freedoms' nonsense?!
Savlon

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
This won't please the u-turners and those who wanted to remain through the back door.

No single market, no customs union.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/14/theresa...



anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
The above is an admission of defeat.
EU have no reason to give us anything, they hold all the aces.
Our government know that so looks like they won't even bother.
Free trade with Timbuktu is the future.

Elysium

13,759 posts

186 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
BlackLabel said:
This won't please the u-turners and those who wanted to remain through the back door.

No single market, no customs union.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/14/theresa...
"Remaining through the back door" is Tory spin.

What most people want, regardless of the way they voted, is to ensure our economy thrives post Brexit. The euro-sceptics are simply politicising any argument to remain in either the 'single market' and 'customs union'. Dogma is again triumphing over rational decision making.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
Elysium said:
"Remaining through the back door" is Tory spin.

What most people want, regardless of the way they voted, is to ensure our economy thrives post Brexit. The euro-sceptics are simply politicising any argument to remain in either the 'single market' and 'customs union'. Dogma is again triumphing over rational decision making.
You're speculating. The only thing we definitely know is that most people who voted want to leave - and that will happen.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
Jimboka said:
The above is an admission of defeat.
EU have no reason to give us anything, they hold all the aces.
Our government know that so looks like they won't even bother.
Free trade with Timbuktu is the future.
Based on the last available GDP numbers, Senegal is growing faster than the EU - we're in on the ground floor!

http://www.worldbank.org/en/country/senegal

The EU has admitted that they need London to ensure the stability of their currency.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/13/e...

powerstroke

10,283 posts

159 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
Jimboka said:
The above is an admission of defeat.
EU have no reason to give us anything, they hold all the aces.
Our government know that so looks like they won't even bother.
Free trade with Timbuktu is the future.
jesterbiglaughsillyclap Oh bless !!!

FiF

43,964 posts

250 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
It's anything other than an admission of defeat. That would come if May said something like ultimately we're not prepared to leave the customs union etc. EU would then hold a significantly stronger set of cards and any negotiation would be more along the lines of the sham negotiation with Cameron.

Obviously we will have to wait and see what the speech brings, yet the media interpretation of nothing continues with their theme that "hard Brexit" is the inevitable and only strategy, despite indications from various quarters of willingness for some transitional deal.

Meanwhile Clegg is calling for an EFTA deal, though seems a bit vague about what it means. Nothing new there then.

Will Tuesday see an end to this thread?

Just as an aside to those who are saying Booker has changed his views.

Deptford Draylons

10,480 posts

242 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
quotequote all
Tim Farron gave a masterclass in avoiding any questions this morning on the Sunday Politics. This guy must be the chief weasel of the moaning end of Remain voters, unable to answer how if we stayed in the single market as it is, how this would equate to having left the EU.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
May rejects 'partial' EU membership in Brexit speech
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38641208

Curbing migration a top priority thumbup

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
May rejects 'partial' EU membership in Brexit speech
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38641208

Curbing migration a top priority thumbup
Presumably she'll announce some changes to non EU migration rules to take effect immediately? If she's serious about reducing migration, that has to be part of the strategy.

turbobloke

103,744 posts

259 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
rscott said:
bmw535i said:
May rejects 'partial' EU membership in Brexit speech
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38641208

Curbing migration a top priority thumbup
Presumably she'll announce some changes to non EU migration rules to take effect immediately? If she's serious about reducing migration, that has to be part of the strategy.
Because you say so?! Maybe she'll take notice, maybe not. If not, no matter, we're leaving the EU not the RoW.

This fantasy thread will presumably close soon. Making it to vol3 however would be a triumph for desperate hope over any realistic expectation.

coffee

don4l

10,058 posts

175 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
Looks like we are heading for a hard Brexit. Here is a copy of the speech that Theresa May is expected to give later today.



A little over six months ago the British people voted for change. They voted to shape a brighter future for our country. They voted to leave the European Union and embrace the world. And they did so with their eyes open: accepting that the road ahead will be uncertain at times, but believing that it leads towards a brighter future for their children – and their grandchildren too.

And it is the job of this Government to deliver it. That means more than negotiating our new relationship with the EU. It means taking the opportunity of this great moment of national change to step back and ask ourselves what kind of country we want to be.

My answer is clear. I want this United Kingdom to emerge from this period of change stronger, fairer, more united and more outward-looking than ever before. I want us to be a secure, prosperous, tolerant country – a magnet for international talent and a home to the pioneers and innovators who will shape the world ahead.

I want us to be a truly Global Britain – the best friend and neighbour to our European partners, but a country that reaches beyond the borders of Europe too. A country that gets out into the world to build relationships with old friends and new allies alike. I want Britain to be what we have the potential and ambition to be: a great, global trading nation that is respected around the world and strong, confident and united at home.

Our vote to leave the European Union was no rejection of the values we share. The decision to leave the EU represents no desire to become more distant to you, our friends and neighbours.

We will continue to be reliable partners, willing allies and close friends. We want to buy your goods, sell you ours, trade with you as freely as possible, and work with one another to make sure we are all safer, more secure and more prosperous through continued friendship.

We seek a new and equal partnership – between an independent, self-governing, Global Britain and our friends and allies in the EU. Not partial membership of the European Union, associate membership of the European Union, or anything that leaves us half-in, half-out. We do not seek to adopt a model already enjoyed by other countries. We do not seek to hold on to bits of membership as we leave.

The United Kingdom is leaving the European Union. My job is to get the right deal for Britain as we do. We have 12 objectives that amount to one big goal: a new, positive and constructive partnership between Britain and the European Union. And as we negotiate that partnership, we will be driven by some simple principles: we will provide as much certainty and clarity as we can at every stage. And we will take this opportunity to make Britain stronger, to make Britain fairer, and to build a more Global Britain too.”

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
turbobloke said:
rscott said:
bmw535i said:
May rejects 'partial' EU membership in Brexit speech
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38641208

Curbing migration a top priority thumbup
Presumably she'll announce some changes to non EU migration rules to take effect immediately? If she's serious about reducing migration, that has to be part of the strategy.
Because you say so?! Maybe she'll take notice, maybe not. If not, no matter, we're leaving the EU not the RoW.

This fantasy thread will presumably close soon. Making it to vol3 however would be a triumph for desperate hope over any realistic expectation.

coffee
Obviously not because I say so.
However, common sense suggests that the criteria used for non-EU migrants now would apply to all migrants post-Brexit. So unless they change them, there won't be a noticeable change in immigration levels.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
At least we will finally have clarity on the negotiating stance - that can't be a bad thing.

Will be interested to see how those parts of the city that rely on passporting reacting. But I would think there will be plenty rubbing their hands to make up for them.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
rscott said:
Presumably she'll announce some changes to non EU migration rules to take effect immediately? If she's serious about reducing migration, that has to be part of the strategy.
Possibly, although that is already an area where there are more and more controls imposed regularly (as discussed previously)

rscott

14,690 posts

190 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
rscott said:
Presumably she'll announce some changes to non EU migration rules to take effect immediately? If she's serious about reducing migration, that has to be part of the strategy.
Possibly, although that is already an area where there are more and more controls imposed regularly (as discussed previously)
So we should see it drop fairly substantially over the next year or so?

barryrs

4,376 posts

222 months

Tuesday 17th January 2017
quotequote all
rscott said:
bmw535i said:
rscott said:
Presumably she'll announce some changes to non EU migration rules to take effect immediately? If she's serious about reducing migration, that has to be part of the strategy.
Possibly, although that is already an area where there are more and more controls imposed regularly (as discussed previously)
So we should see it drop fairly substantially over the next year or so?
I think we will see an increase in the short term however once the rules that apply to the rest of the world apply to all I expect to see a reduction in unskilled migration.

I personally expect immigration levels to remain fairly consistent with a more diverse makeup.