Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[SilverSixer]

Errr....Richmond Park by-election?

Come on, let's have all the comedy Leave denial bluster. Should be quite entertaining.

[Deptford Draylons]

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Bit like the advisory referendum result, then.

Advisory referendum and controlled EU immigration. Genius !

Them's the facts. Boom!

I think you mean you want them to be 'facts' to back your view.
Out of interest,what was the reason you say that it is controlled in any way ? I'll leave aside what the PM said about the binding result of the referendum as you will probably go off your tits crazy about the lies during this period, although oddly its confined only to those on the side of the bus.

If it's not in this thread, it's in the other one.

What the PM said and what the law of the land, this Great Britain, says are two different things. Which has precedence in your view?

Indulge me on the immigration front. I'm interested in what control there is for an EU citizen at Calais today. Flash the passport and get in isn't what I'd call controlled. You may think it is though.

I was quite happy when parliament gave consent for a referendum to take place and the result to be binding and stated as such without any opposition at the time to that. You seem to be suggesting the PM made the biggest lie in the whole referendum when he said it was binding, article 50 would be triggered the next day and we would be out of the single market for sure.I bet you wrote here endlessly about misleading claims like this as you did about a red bus. You did do that , right ?

Yes, the PM's claims were quite evidently as misleading in this regard as was the bus. Hence the legal hullaballoo currently unfolding. Some of us noted this and warned about it before the referendum.

So which was the bigger lie ? The PM and government spending the whole referendum saying the result was binding, the UK would leave the SM, article 50 would be triggered the next day, there would be an economic crash immediately after the result, and emergency budget need, thousands of jobs lost on the result. Or was it the cross party group of people saying they wanted to see £350m wasted on the NHS ?

You were ahead of the game had you seen all that. Could you link some of your posts where you called out the government of the days as misleading the country and saying this was just an advisory vote anyway and given how parliament was so pro Remain, it hardly meant anything anyway.

So was there ever an answer to this and any evidence you yourself were warning this was, in your words, and advisory referendum ?
I don't recall any talk on PH about this at all. All you big red bus rage people ( MrT //ajd and co ) ever mentioning it or how we were greatly mislead by the government of the day. So any of you, do feel free to answer these points, because it does look like you are rather searching around for excuses after your complacency of the leave vote.

OK, I didn't want to prolong this tedious quote fest as it's all been discussed and answered before. The 350m was the bigger lie, the fact it was advisory was pointed out here several times, as well as other places, and I CBA to root around linking posts as evidence because I CBA. It's there. The fact people didn't pay attention and the fact you don't remember it is hardly my problem.

Interesting that you think that. The bus thing hardly registered with me, mainly because the NHS is a pain in the arse with the way everybody has to virtue signal with it, but also because it was quite plain to see that a cross party group of people were in no position to deliver and at best it could be only a suggestion where they'd like to see money spent.
The government on the other hand spending the whole referendum period speaking utterly bks on not just one subject, like the big red bus that so obsesses you, but on everything they went near is rather more underhanded.
You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about, but the big red bus still upsets you more ? Really ?

I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one too. I'll put you down as another who woke up that morning and then wondered what excuses you find to try and weasel out of a result you don't like. I'm happy to say sorry , should I see any evidence the other way.

[andymadmak]

Deptford Draylons said:

Interesting that you think that. The bus thing hardly registered with me, mainly because the NHS is a pain in the arse with the way everybody has to virtue signal with it, but also because it was quite plain to see that a cross party group of people were in no position to deliver and at best it could be only a suggestion where they'd like to see money spent.
The government on the other hand spending the whole referendum period speaking utterly bks on not just one subject, like the big red bus that so obsesses you, but on everything they went near is rather more underhanded.
You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about, but the big red bus still upsets you more ? Really ?

I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one too. I'll put you down as another who woke up that morning and then wondered what excuses you find to try and weasel out of a result you don't like. I'm happy to say sorry , should I see any evidence the other way.

+1

[SilverSixer]

Deptford Draylons said:

You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about.........I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one .....

Snipping for brevity.

I've acknowledged no such thing, I've merely acknowledged there were some misleading arguments put forward by Remain, in so far as the crystal ball was a bit cloudy. Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire. Yet. it's waiting for us if we stay on the hard brexit road though, even David Davis knows this.

I'm sorry you feel the need to call bks, and I haven't the time or inclination to search PH for a supporting comment, but that was my position before the referendum whether I wrote it on this wholly irrelevant discussion forum or not. It's not the only universe I inhabit and I'm not compelled to share everything at all times via this medium. I think I did post on here on this topic, maybe not. It's an infinite universe, anything's possible. Ho hum, I can't be arsed to investigate either way. If you want to read every single post I've ever made on here to find proof to call me wrong, good luck to you and I'll own up if you strike gold. You can take that or leave it, if you choose to leave it it's water off a duck's back to me.

Edited by SilverSixer on Friday 2nd December 10:50

[confused_buyer]

SilverSixer said:

Errr....Richmond Park by-election?

Come on, let's have all the comedy Leave denial bluster. Should be quite entertaining.

Good result for the LibDems but a shame they had to resort to their usual underhand tactics (fake newspapers - dear oh dear) proving they are still the nasty party.

However it tells us bugger all. By-election which ended up on Brexit issue in constituency which was one of the most pro-Remain in the country was won on Brexit issue. What it tells us is that Richmond voters strongly favour remain which we've known for 6 months.

All it confirms is the massive division in views between London and outside of London which is a massive chasm for national parties to try and cope with.

[Deptford Draylons]

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about.........I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one .....

Snipping for brevity.

I've acknowledged no such thing, I've merely acknowledged there were some misleading arguments put forward by Remain, in so far as the crystal ball was a bit cloudy. Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire. Yet. it's waiting for us if we stay on the hard brexit road though, even David Davis knows this.

I'm sorry you feel the need to call bks, and I haven't the time or inclination to search PH for a supporting comment, but that was my position before the referendum whether I wrote it on this wholly irrelevant discussion forum or not. It's no the only universe I inhabit and I'm not compelled to share everything at all times via this medium. I think I did post on here on this topic, maybe not. It's an infinite universe, anything's possible. Ho hum, I can't be arsed to investigate either way. If you want to read every single post I've ever made on here to find proof to call me wrong, good luck to you and I'll own up if you strike gold. You can take that or leave it, if you choose to leave it it's water off a duck's back to me.

The crystal ball was a bit cloudy huh ? I'd suggest that was because the government indulged in a referendum campaign to deliberately muddy the waters on every single subject it spoke on with a doomsday scenario. I find it odd that when the PM told us repeatedly we would be out the single market, that next day he would trigger article 50 and so on, he said so under what you claim is an advisory referendum.
I don't not only recall no one on PH saying, but no one in the media either. Who seriously suggested the referendum was basically an opinion poll to parliament ?
You can't find anything to back up your own retrospective view, so maybe its easier to find examples of where anyone was saying this ?

[Fastdruid]

confused_buyer said:

SilverSixer said:

Errr....Richmond Park by-election?

Come on, let's have all the comedy Leave denial bluster. Should be quite entertaining.

Good result for the LibDems but a shame they had to resort to their usual underhand tactics (fake newspapers - dear oh dear) proving they are still the nasty party.

However it tells us bugger all. By-election which ended up on Brexit issue in constituency which was one of the most pro-Remain in the country was won on Brexit issue. What it tells us is that Richmond voters strongly favour remain which we've known for 6 months.

All it confirms is the massive division in views between London and outside of London which is a massive chasm for national parties to try and cope with.

General elections tend to go on party lines. By-Elections have a fraction of the turnout and that turnout typically consists of those really motivated. They also are very often a "protest" about the current government.

In this case as well you had an independent so not even a Conservative and in a strong remain voting constituency.

The result is utterly unsurprising.

[don'tbesilly]

confused_buyer said:

SilverSixer said:

Errr....Richmond Park by-election?

Come on, let's have all the comedy Leave denial bluster. Should be quite entertaining.

Good result for the LibDems but a shame they had to resort to their usual underhand tactics (fake newspapers - dear oh dear) proving they are still the nasty party.

However it tells us bugger all. By-election which ended up on Brexit issue in constituency which was one of the most pro-Remain in the country was won on Brexit issue. What it tells us is that Richmond voters strongly favour remain which we've known for 6 months.

All it confirms is the massive division in views between London and outside of London which is a massive chasm for national parties to try and cope with.

^ Bang on the money

By-election was/is a sideshow.

Poor turn out and a vote that had nothing to do with local issues.
All it does is reflect the vote from the same area that was seen in the referendum,and the vote was over the EU and cock all to do with anything other.

Really rather meh and of little significance.

In summary, it's still EU

[SilverSixer]

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about.........I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one .....

Snipping for brevity.

I've acknowledged no such thing, I've merely acknowledged there were some misleading arguments put forward by Remain, in so far as the crystal ball was a bit cloudy. Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire. Yet. it's waiting for us if we stay on the hard brexit road though, even David Davis knows this.

I'm sorry you feel the need to call bks, and I haven't the time or inclination to search PH for a supporting comment, but that was my position before the referendum whether I wrote it on this wholly irrelevant discussion forum or not. It's no the only universe I inhabit and I'm not compelled to share everything at all times via this medium. I think I did post on here on this topic, maybe not. It's an infinite universe, anything's possible. Ho hum, I can't be arsed to investigate either way. If you want to read every single post I've ever made on here to find proof to call me wrong, good luck to you and I'll own up if you strike gold. You can take that or leave it, if you choose to leave it it's water off a duck's back to me.

The crystal ball was a bit cloudy huh ? I'd suggest that was because the government indulged in a referendum campaign to deliberately muddy the waters on every single subject it spoke on with a doomsday scenario. I find it odd that when the PM told us repeatedly we would be out the single market, that next day he would trigger article 50 and so on, he said so under what you claim is an advisory referendum.
I don't not only recall no one on PH saying, but no one in the media either. Who seriously suggested the referendum was basically an opinion poll to parliament ?
You can't find anything to back up your own retrospective view, so maybe its easier to find examples of where anyone was saying this ?

I'm sorry but we've done this before on PH. I'm not doing the digging for you. Can we not "get over" the advisory thing? It's been done to death. It was advisory and not legally binding. It really is that simple. This fact was widely known and publicised before June 23rd, it is actually a facet of referendums in this country unless the specific referendum bill is specifically written to make it legally binding, as was the AV one. There really isn't anything to discuss about it. If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

[don'tbesilly]

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about.........I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one .....

Snipping for brevity.

I've acknowledged no such thing, I've merely acknowledged there were some misleading arguments put forward by Remain, in so far as the crystal ball was a bit cloudy. Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire. Yet. it's waiting for us if we stay on the hard brexit road though, even David Davis knows this.

I'm sorry you feel the need to call bks, and I haven't the time or inclination to search PH for a supporting comment, but that was my position before the referendum whether I wrote it on this wholly irrelevant discussion forum or not. It's no the only universe I inhabit and I'm not compelled to share everything at all times via this medium. I think I did post on here on this topic, maybe not. It's an infinite universe, anything's possible. Ho hum, I can't be arsed to investigate either way. If you want to read every single post I've ever made on here to find proof to call me wrong, good luck to you and I'll own up if you strike gold. You can take that or leave it, if you choose to leave it it's water off a duck's back to me.

The crystal ball was a bit cloudy huh ? I'd suggest that was because the government indulged in a referendum campaign to deliberately muddy the waters on every single subject it spoke on with a doomsday scenario. I find it odd that when the PM told us repeatedly we would be out the single market, that next day he would trigger article 50 and so on, he said so under what you claim is an advisory referendum.
I don't not only recall no one on PH saying, but no one in the media either. Who seriously suggested the referendum was basically an opinion poll to parliament ?
You can't find anything to back up your own retrospective view, so maybe its easier to find examples of where anyone was saying this ?

I'm sorry but we've done this before on PH. I'm not doing the digging for you. Can we not "get over" the advisory thing? It's been done to death. It was advisory and not legally binding. It really is that simple. This fact was widely known and publicised before June 23rd, it is actually a facet of referendums in this country unless the specific referendum bill is specifically written to make it legally binding, as was the AV one. There really isn't anything to discuss about it. If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

Advisory or not, the end result will be the same.

If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

[paulrockliffe]

SilverSixer said:

Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire.

Don't you find it odd that the Government weren't aware that they had a genius at the BoE or that they had policy levers that could be used to mitigate?

I mean, if they'd realised that they could have factored in 'not sitting on our hands while it all goes to st' and come out with some realistic scenarios.

Unless of course they wanted to present a load of bks....

[SilverSixer]

paulrockliffe said:

SilverSixer said:

Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire.

Don't you find it odd that the Government weren't aware that they had a genius at the BoE or that they had policy levers that could be used to mitigate?

I mean, if they'd realised that they could have factored in 'not sitting on our hands while it all goes to st' and come out with some realistic scenarios.

Unless of course they wanted to present a load of bks....

They didn't want to have to mitigate a poor situation. This is not unreasonable.

[SilverSixer]

don'tbesilly said:

Advisory or not, the end result will be the same.

If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

Yes, paying EU contributions for reduced circumstances and influence, it would appear. Well done everyone, good job.

[don'tbesilly]

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

Advisory or not, the end result will be the same.

If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

Yes, paying EU contributions for reduced circumstances and influence, it would appear. Well done everyone, good job.

That's been agreed has it?

It will be a great job, and thanks for the compliment

[SilverSixer]

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

Advisory or not, the end result will be the same.

If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

Yes, paying EU contributions for reduced circumstances and influence, it would appear. Well done everyone, good job.

That's been agreed has it?

It will be a great job, and thanks for the compliment

I can picture the scene on the day David Davis decides he wants to leave Netflix. He'll agree a special deal to pay them £7.49 per month for continuing access to their content.

[Piersman2]

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

Advisory or not, the end result will be the same.

If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

Yes, paying EU contributions for reduced circumstances and influence, it would appear. Well done everyone, good job.

That's been agreed has it?

It will be a great job, and thanks for the compliment

I can picture the scene on the day David Davis decides he wants to leave Netflix. He'll agree a special deal to pay them £7.49 per month for continuing access to their content.

Whilst he then has the opportunity to go to Amazon, Google, BBC, ITV and all the other media providers and negotiate his own deals with each of them.

[SilverSixer]

Piersman2 said:

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

SilverSixer said:

don'tbesilly said:

Advisory or not, the end result will be the same.

If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

Yes, paying EU contributions for reduced circumstances and influence, it would appear. Well done everyone, good job.

That's been agreed has it?

It will be a great job, and thanks for the compliment

I can picture the scene on the day David Davis decides he wants to leave Netflix. He'll agree a special deal to pay them £7.49 per month for continuing access to their content.

Whilst he then has the opportunity to go to Amazon, Google, BBC, ITV and all the other media providers and negotiate his own deals with each of them.

Well that doesn't work because Netflix wasn't stopping him buying content from any of the others.

[jonnyb]

wc98 said:

s2art said:

jonnyb said:

I deleted the post as there's just no point.

But we are way past valuable or otherwise. We need immigration in the 100s of thousands, and then hope they all have a st load of kids.

By all means bury your head in the sand..

This looks like bedwetting. We have been importing hundreds of thousands, per year, of relatively young people for many years now, the demographics have changed a bit. And the baby boomers start dying off soon, the oldest will now be 70+. Many of the older BBs will have moved to sunnier climes. Its not the huge problem you think it is.

spot on. i find it laughable that people on a motoring forum that supposedly enjoy driving/riding want to see the roads clogged up with even more people. i was quite looking forward to the bb generation all popping their clogs and the resultant population drop creating more space for a hoon. not bloody now though

Like I said, I deleted the post as there's just no point.

[Camoradi]

SilverSixer said:

I can picture the scene on the day David Davis decides he wants to leave Netflix. He'll agree a special deal to pay them £7.49 per month for continuing access to their content.

I saw that post online yesterday too. At least give the original author a credit...

https://twitter.com/carlmaxim/status/8042816502302...

Edited by Camoradi on Friday 2nd December 11:52

[WinstonWolf]

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

SilverSixer said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You've just acknowledged that everything the government said and put out as official Remain campaigning was utterly false in what the referendum meant and was about.........I'd love to believe you were ahead of the game and saw this was a meaningless advisory referendum and said as such on PH, but given you can't post anything to support that, excuse me if I call bks on that one .....

Snipping for brevity.

I've acknowledged no such thing, I've merely acknowledged there were some misleading arguments put forward by Remain, in so far as the crystal ball was a bit cloudy. Most of the economic woe stuff was handled by Mark Carney after the vote, so it didn't transpire. Yet. it's waiting for us if we stay on the hard brexit road though, even David Davis knows this.

I'm sorry you feel the need to call bks, and I haven't the time or inclination to search PH for a supporting comment, but that was my position before the referendum whether I wrote it on this wholly irrelevant discussion forum or not. It's no the only universe I inhabit and I'm not compelled to share everything at all times via this medium. I think I did post on here on this topic, maybe not. It's an infinite universe, anything's possible. Ho hum, I can't be arsed to investigate either way. If you want to read every single post I've ever made on here to find proof to call me wrong, good luck to you and I'll own up if you strike gold. You can take that or leave it, if you choose to leave it it's water off a duck's back to me.

The crystal ball was a bit cloudy huh ? I'd suggest that was because the government indulged in a referendum campaign to deliberately muddy the waters on every single subject it spoke on with a doomsday scenario. I find it odd that when the PM told us repeatedly we would be out the single market, that next day he would trigger article 50 and so on, he said so under what you claim is an advisory referendum.
I don't not only recall no one on PH saying, but no one in the media either. Who seriously suggested the referendum was basically an opinion poll to parliament ?
You can't find anything to back up your own retrospective view, so maybe its easier to find examples of where anyone was saying this ?

I'm sorry but we've done this before on PH. I'm not doing the digging for you. Can we not "get over" the advisory thing? It's been done to death. It was advisory and not legally binding. It really is that simple. This fact was widely known and publicised before June 23rd, it is actually a facet of referendums in this country unless the specific referendum bill is specifically written to make it legally binding, as was the AV one. There really isn't anything to discuss about it. If you can't accept that, I can't help you.

It was not widely known and most definitely wasn't publicised in the mainstream media.

Either way, we're leaving...