Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)
Discussion
confused_buyer said:
Elysium said:
There had been no barrier to them going to Parliament at any time in the last 5 months, but they have chosen not to. The people bringing this case have done us all a big favour because without it, May would have set us on a road towards an unlawful Brexit, which would have mired the UK in the courts for years to come.
I am inclined to agree although I think by bringing the case they have actually helped the Leave side. By doing so they will ensure the decision to trigger Article 50 will be difficult to challenge whereas otherwise I have no doubt some sort of challenge would have popped up down the road.On second thoughts it'll turn into a thread about Brexit and lose the focus on the agreement aspect and we've got enough threads on Brexit so let's just celebrate it here
Disastrous said:
Perhaps so, but that cartoon is an exceptionally poor example. I couldn't care less about the content but the execution is just woeful.
The cartoonist has literally just written 'political correctness' on a shark.
Actually, analysing how badly done it is, is funnier than the cartoon.
Isn't the whole aspect of political correctness dangerous - we don't discuss things that really need to be discussed for fear of not being politically correct.The cartoonist has literally just written 'political correctness' on a shark.
Actually, analysing how badly done it is, is funnier than the cartoon.
Sounds like a shark image is perfect for the danger it presents
Just like we don't want children to lose, everyone are winners - well that prepares them nicely for life when they are no longer children because in the big wide world there are definitely winners and losers
Pan Pan Pan said:
That will only happen if the judges treat the will of the majority voter in the UK with respect, If the judges choose to ignore that, they do so at the peril of the rule of law in the UK.
Why should anyone respect the law, if at any time an individual or small number of individuals, who were not happy with the result of a democratic vote, choose to just ignore it, or bend it to suit their point of view?
The judges are not asked to rule on "the will of the majority voter". They are being asked to rule on how the law applies to implementing art. 50.Why should anyone respect the law, if at any time an individual or small number of individuals, who were not happy with the result of a democratic vote, choose to just ignore it, or bend it to suit their point of view?
If the law can be ignored for political expediency, it is in peril.
Disastrous said:
I love the wit there.
"Oh! I know!! I'll use a sinking ship as a metaphor for the EU, and I'll write 'debt' on the anchor, because debt is like an anchor...but will my readers understand it??"
Impressive stuff. Can we at least agree that Brexit camp has a very unsophisticated sense of humour?
That's a new insult to add to an already long list."Oh! I know!! I'll use a sinking ship as a metaphor for the EU, and I'll write 'debt' on the anchor, because debt is like an anchor...but will my readers understand it??"
Impressive stuff. Can we at least agree that Brexit camp has a very unsophisticated sense of humour?
We need to test your theory. I have come up with something that will make the Leavers smile, but the Remainers won't get it at all.
832.
Well seeing as people are discussing unsophisticated cartoons, here's one, many possible interpretations. Appropriate when it was drawn 4 years ago, still just as valid for Cameron's 'negotiations', still current today with, as I say, a fair few possible interpretations regardless of which tribe the reader is in.
FiF said:
Well seeing as people are discussing unsophisticated cartoons, here's one, many possible interpretations. Appropriate when it was drawn 4 years ago, still just as valid for Cameron's 'negotiations', still current today with, as I say, a fair few possible interpretations regardless of which tribe the reader is in.
I bet they wish they could do that with Farage.Anyway - I assume that represents our position post Brexit?
Rich_W said:
Just read this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/01/theresa...
This is the sort of nonsense we've come to expect from the higher levels of the EU. Quite aside from the fact ware still part of Europe and thus should be invited. WHY are they being so damn petty!
Blimey. Sets the tone doesn't it.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/01/theresa...
This is the sort of nonsense we've come to expect from the higher levels of the EU. Quite aside from the fact ware still part of Europe and thus should be invited. WHY are they being so damn petty!
The act of not inviting an international leader to something they've always been invited to (and still should be) is usually reserved for the likes of dictators to teach them a lesson about some kind of large scale international wrong doing they've been engaged in.
What we are seeing from the EU is snidey, petty punishment for carrying out a democratic act. Something nobody in Europe would have been able to perform had we and the US not sprung to their rescue some 72 years ago.
Prepare for the hardest of hard Brexits folks. The EU top brass have clearly made their minds up which way this is going to go.
Cobnapint said:
Rich_W said:
Just read this.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/01/theresa...
This is the sort of nonsense we've come to expect from the higher levels of the EU. Quite aside from the fact ware still part of Europe and thus should be invited. WHY are they being so damn petty!
Blimey. Sets the tone doesn't it.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/01/theresa...
This is the sort of nonsense we've come to expect from the higher levels of the EU. Quite aside from the fact ware still part of Europe and thus should be invited. WHY are they being so damn petty!
The act of not inviting an international leader to something they've always been invited to (and still should be) is usually reserved for the likes of dictators to teach them a lesson about some kind of large scale international wrong doing they've been engaged in.
What we are seeing from the EU is snidey, petty punishment for carrying out a democratic act. Something nobody in Europe would have been able to perform had we and the US not sprung to their rescue some 72 years ago.
Prepare for the hardest of hard Brexits folks. The EU top brass have clearly made their minds up which way this is going to go.
Surprised no one's mentioned this today. Listen to 3mins in or so where Matt Frei summarises the Lib Dem position and Clegg answers "correct". Right there.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ni...
Nick Clegg admits the Lib Dem plan is to frustrate leaving the EU until a bump in the road comes and the electorate change their mind, or they get a 2nd referendum on the terms of exit (in the expectation the terms will be s
t - which they would be if EU negotiators know there's another referendum coming). It's odd though because I thought the deal will be take it or leave it, and if we don't take it at the end of article 50 we are just out. Completely. Clegg I can only assume thinks rejecting it means we remain members, although the punishment will surely be Schengen and Euro. So I can only assume the true plan by the EU quisling partners in the UK is to frustrate by any procedural, political, legal etc means the triggering of article 50, and/ or that the UK withdraw it once triggered, presumably around some economic bump in the road (expected of course) but significant and to bounce us into a quick referendum, to get the right answer this time, Leave or Remain, although I expect he or Farton will weasel their way to a quick MP vote and fk us over again.
Notice how he appropriates "patriotic" case for remaining, it's reeks of common purpose.
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
I do wish someone would ask the Lib Dems what the multiple choice will be on the 2nd ref ballot, as it will have to include destination next time.
Q.1 Do you accept the terms of the Brexit settlement, in its entirety? (Yes or No)
If no, a) Do you wish to remain in the EU on the existing terms (including ever closer union)? Or b) leave the EU, the customs union, single market, EEA, EFTA, the ECJ, etc, etc. But of course they don't as they know they'll never agree the questions, or it will be too hard for the people to grasp, so instead, "we'll have debate, and MPs will decide"
That's what's happening here folks
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ni...
Nick Clegg admits the Lib Dem plan is to frustrate leaving the EU until a bump in the road comes and the electorate change their mind, or they get a 2nd referendum on the terms of exit (in the expectation the terms will be s
t - which they would be if EU negotiators know there's another referendum coming). It's odd though because I thought the deal will be take it or leave it, and if we don't take it at the end of article 50 we are just out. Completely. Clegg I can only assume thinks rejecting it means we remain members, although the punishment will surely be Schengen and Euro. So I can only assume the true plan by the EU quisling partners in the UK is to frustrate by any procedural, political, legal etc means the triggering of article 50, and/ or that the UK withdraw it once triggered, presumably around some economic bump in the road (expected of course) but significant and to bounce us into a quick referendum, to get the right answer this time, Leave or Remain, although I expect he or Farton will weasel their way to a quick MP vote and fk us over again.Notice how he appropriates "patriotic" case for remaining, it's reeks of common purpose.
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
I do wish someone would ask the Lib Dems what the multiple choice will be on the 2nd ref ballot, as it will have to include destination next time.
Q.1 Do you accept the terms of the Brexit settlement, in its entirety? (Yes or No)
If no, a) Do you wish to remain in the EU on the existing terms (including ever closer union)? Or b) leave the EU, the customs union, single market, EEA, EFTA, the ECJ, etc, etc. But of course they don't as they know they'll never agree the questions, or it will be too hard for the people to grasp, so instead, "we'll have debate, and MPs will decide"
That's what's happening here folks
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 3rd December 20:55
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 3rd December 20:56
Not so much a U turn, but I'm beginning to think the UK won't be the first to leave. While we're being all diplomatic about going through the proper process and trying to negotiate a deal, some other member state will take a vote/decide to leave and just say "right, as of tomorrow we're out, goodbye".
Northern Munkee said:
Surprised no one's mentioned this today. Listen to 3mins in or so where Matt Frei summarises the Lib Dem position and answers "correct". Right there.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ni...
Nick Clegg admits the Lib Dem plan is to frustrate leaving the EU until a bump in the road comes and the electorate change their mind, or they get a 2nd referendum on the terms of exit (in the expectation the terms will be st - which they would be if EU negotiators know there's another referendum coming). It's odd though because I thought the deal will be take it or leave it, and if we don't take at the end of article 50 we are just out. Completely. Clegg I can only assume thinks rejecting means we remain members, although the punish will surely be Schengen and Euro. So I can only assume the true plan by the EU quisling partners in the UK is to frustrate by any procedural, political, legal etc means the triggering of article 50, and/ or that the UK withdraw it once triggered, presumably around some economic bump in the road (expected of course) but significant to bounce us into a quick referendum, although I expect he or Farton will weasel their way to a quick MP vote and fk us over again.
Notice how he appropriates "patriotic" case for remaining, it's reeks of common purpose.
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
I do wish someone would ask the Lib Dems what the multiple choice will be on the 2nd ref ballot, as it will have to include destination next time.
Q.1 Do you accept the terms of the Brexit settlement, in its entirety? (Yes or No)
If no, a) Do you wish to remain in the EU on the existing terms (including ever closer union)? Or b) leave the EU, the customs union, single market, EEA, EFTA, the ECJ, etc, etc. But of course they don't as they know they'll never agree the questions, or it will too hard for the people to grasp, so instead, "we'll have debate, and MPs will decide"
That's what's happening here folks
- The terms of a deal won't be affected by whether the UK reconsiders or not. In any case they will be poor enough to force a rethink of the electorate no matter how good the deal is - as it will be worse in one way or another.http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ni...
Nick Clegg admits the Lib Dem plan is to frustrate leaving the EU until a bump in the road comes and the electorate change their mind, or they get a 2nd referendum on the terms of exit (in the expectation the terms will be s
t - which they would be if EU negotiators know there's another referendum coming). It's odd though because I thought the deal will be take it or leave it, and if we don't take at the end of article 50 we are just out. Completely. Clegg I can only assume thinks rejecting means we remain members, although the punish will surely be Schengen and Euro. So I can only assume the true plan by the EU quisling partners in the UK is to frustrate by any procedural, political, legal etc means the triggering of article 50, and/ or that the UK withdraw it once triggered, presumably around some economic bump in the road (expected of course) but significant to bounce us into a quick referendum, although I expect he or Farton will weasel their way to a quick MP vote and fk us over again.Notice how he appropriates "patriotic" case for remaining, it's reeks of common purpose.
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
I do wish someone would ask the Lib Dems what the multiple choice will be on the 2nd ref ballot, as it will have to include destination next time.
Q.1 Do you accept the terms of the Brexit settlement, in its entirety? (Yes or No)
If no, a) Do you wish to remain in the EU on the existing terms (including ever closer union)? Or b) leave the EU, the customs union, single market, EEA, EFTA, the ECJ, etc, etc. But of course they don't as they know they'll never agree the questions, or it will too hard for the people to grasp, so instead, "we'll have debate, and MPs will decide"
That's what's happening here folks
- there will be no schengen or euro punishment for a u-turn. nonsense.
///ajd said:
Northern Munkee said:
Surprised no one's mentioned this today. Listen to 3mins in or so where Matt Frei summarises the Lib Dem position and answers "correct". Right there.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ni...
Nick Clegg admits the Lib Dem plan is to frustrate leaving the EU until a bump in the road comes and the electorate change their mind, or they get a 2nd referendum on the terms of exit (in the expectation the terms will be st - which they would be if EU negotiators know there's another referendum coming). It's odd though because I thought the deal will be take it or leave it, and if we don't take at the end of article 50 we are just out. Completely. Clegg I can only assume thinks rejecting means we remain members, although the punish will surely be Schengen and Euro. So I can only assume the true plan by the EU quisling partners in the UK is to frustrate by any procedural, political, legal etc means the triggering of article 50, and/ or that the UK withdraw it once triggered, presumably around some economic bump in the road (expected of course) but significant to bounce us into a quick referendum, although I expect he or Farton will weasel their way to a quick MP vote and fk us over again.
Notice how he appropriates "patriotic" case for remaining, it's reeks of common purpose.
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
I do wish someone would ask the Lib Dems what the multiple choice will be on the 2nd ref ballot, as it will have to include destination next time.
Q.1 Do you accept the terms of the Brexit settlement, in its entirety? (Yes or No)
If no, a) Do you wish to remain in the EU on the existing terms (including ever closer union)? Or b) leave the EU, the customs union, single market, EEA, EFTA, the ECJ, etc, etc. But of course they don't as they know they'll never agree the questions, or it will too hard for the people to grasp, so instead, "we'll have debate, and MPs will decide"
That's what's happening here folks
- The terms of a deal won't be affected by whether the UK reconsiders or not. In any case they will be poor enough to force a rethink of the electorate no matter how good the deal is - as it will be worse in one way or another.http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/matt-frei/ni...
Nick Clegg admits the Lib Dem plan is to frustrate leaving the EU until a bump in the road comes and the electorate change their mind, or they get a 2nd referendum on the terms of exit (in the expectation the terms will be s
t - which they would be if EU negotiators know there's another referendum coming). It's odd though because I thought the deal will be take it or leave it, and if we don't take at the end of article 50 we are just out. Completely. Clegg I can only assume thinks rejecting means we remain members, although the punish will surely be Schengen and Euro. So I can only assume the true plan by the EU quisling partners in the UK is to frustrate by any procedural, political, legal etc means the triggering of article 50, and/ or that the UK withdraw it once triggered, presumably around some economic bump in the road (expected of course) but significant to bounce us into a quick referendum, although I expect he or Farton will weasel their way to a quick MP vote and fk us over again.Notice how he appropriates "patriotic" case for remaining, it's reeks of common purpose.
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
I do wish someone would ask the Lib Dems what the multiple choice will be on the 2nd ref ballot, as it will have to include destination next time.
Q.1 Do you accept the terms of the Brexit settlement, in its entirety? (Yes or No)
If no, a) Do you wish to remain in the EU on the existing terms (including ever closer union)? Or b) leave the EU, the customs union, single market, EEA, EFTA, the ECJ, etc, etc. But of course they don't as they know they'll never agree the questions, or it will too hard for the people to grasp, so instead, "we'll have debate, and MPs will decide"
That's what's happening here folks
- there will be no schengen or euro punishment for a u-turn. nonsense.
The French would have the UK in schengen tomorrow given the chance, and a change of mind by the UK in the 2 yr period following A50 would give them just that opportunity.
To dismiss it as nonsense is nonsense and naive in the extreme.
Northern Munkee said:
They are neither Liberal
"willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
You are 100% correct."willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions (the majority votes) different from one's own; open to new ideas."
Nor Democrats
"an advocate or supporter of democracy." Only in so far as we can vote again until they get the answer they want.
They are illiberal hypocrites - and should be exposed as such.
Hopefully, yesterday's interview with that daft woman will set the standard of all future LibDem interviews.
Edited by don4l on Saturday 3rd December 22:21
don'tbesilly said:
Get that in writing and enshrined in EU law and some might just believe you.
The French would have the UK in schengen tomorrow given the chance, and a change of mind by the UK in the 2 yr period following A50 would give them just that opportunity.
To dismiss it as nonsense is nonsense and naive in the extreme.
What evidence do you have that the French - or anyone else - wants to force us into Schengen? The French would have the UK in schengen tomorrow given the chance, and a change of mind by the UK in the 2 yr period following A50 would give them just that opportunity.
To dismiss it as nonsense is nonsense and naive in the extreme.
Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
The only discussion that French have been having on Schengen is imposing their own limits post Paris - so quite the opposite.
Elysium said:
FiF said:
Well seeing as people are discussing unsophisticated cartoons, here's one, many possible interpretations. Appropriate when it was drawn 4 years ago, still just as valid for Cameron's 'negotiations', still current today with, as I say, a fair few possible interpretations regardless of which tribe the reader is in.
I bet they wish they could do that with Farage.Anyway - I assume that represents our position post Brexit?
///ajd said:
What evidence do you have that the French - or anyone else - wants to force us into Schengen?
Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
The rules of the EU are that any newly entering country must sign up to Schengen and the Euro. Rest assured that those will be the cost of re-entry if we do try to row back on article 50. Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
davepoth said:
///ajd said:
What evidence do you have that the French - or anyone else - wants to force us into Schengen?
Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
The rules of the EU are that any newly entering country must sign up to Schengen and the Euro. Rest assured that those will be the cost of re-entry if we do try to row back on article 50. Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
The UK would be lessl likely to u turn if Schengen was imposed.
It seems like you are just making that up to try and make a u-turn seem bad. It won't be - far from it.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff