Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)
Discussion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38196303
It will be interesting to see exactly what wording Labour propose to go in the brexit bill on the Single Market.
In theory this could set the foundation for a consultation on the brexit outcome prior to committing the country to actually leave.
The open question will be if the reversability of Art 50 becomes a key point.
If the bill amendment is clever, it may force clarity on confirming the reversibilty of Art 50 (ie it can be) before the UK can invoke it - otherwise the govt could be irrovecably changing our SM access just by declaring Art 50.
It will be interesting to see exactly what wording Labour propose to go in the brexit bill on the Single Market.
In theory this could set the foundation for a consultation on the brexit outcome prior to committing the country to actually leave.
The open question will be if the reversability of Art 50 becomes a key point.
If the bill amendment is clever, it may force clarity on confirming the reversibilty of Art 50 (ie it can be) before the UK can invoke it - otherwise the govt could be irrovecably changing our SM access just by declaring Art 50.
davepoth said:
///ajd said:
What evidence do you have that the French - or anyone else - wants to force us into Schengen?
Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
The rules of the EU are that any newly entering country must sign up to Schengen and the Euro. Rest assured that those will be the cost of re-entry if we do try to row back on article 50. Who has ever suggested this?
I really don't understand why you would believe such an idea, what is it based on?
///ajd seems to think the EU are our bezzy mates, and wouldn't impose new country T's & C's if such a devastating circumstance were to take place as described.
I have mentioned it before, and ///ajd's response was along similar lines, our pals in the EU wouldn't do such a thing!
It's scaremongering apparently, so,so naive
It might be worth contemplating why May is appealing the High Court decision on A50, and exactly what May wants to establish as a result of the appeal.
///ajd said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38196303
It will be interesting to see exactly what wording Labour propose to go in the brexit bill on the Single Market.
In theory this could set the foundation for a consultation on the brexit outcome prior to committing the country to actually leave.
The open question will be if the reversability of Art 50 becomes a key point.
If the bill amendment is clever, it may force clarity on confirming the reversibilty of Art 50 (ie it can be) before the UK can invoke it - otherwise the govt could be irrovecably changing our SM access just by declaring Art 50.
If the amendment fails, which is likely, Labour will vote to leave.It will be interesting to see exactly what wording Labour propose to go in the brexit bill on the Single Market.
In theory this could set the foundation for a consultation on the brexit outcome prior to committing the country to actually leave.
The open question will be if the reversability of Art 50 becomes a key point.
If the bill amendment is clever, it may force clarity on confirming the reversibilty of Art 50 (ie it can be) before the UK can invoke it - otherwise the govt could be irrovecably changing our SM access just by declaring Art 50.
Nothing to see here. Brexit will go ahead.
bmw535i said:
///ajd said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38196303
It will be interesting to see exactly what wording Labour propose to go in the brexit bill on the Single Market.
In theory this could set the foundation for a consultation on the brexit outcome prior to committing the country to actually leave.
The open question will be if the reversability of Art 50 becomes a key point.
If the bill amendment is clever, it may force clarity on confirming the reversibilty of Art 50 (ie it can be) before the UK can invoke it - otherwise the govt could be irrovecably changing our SM access just by declaring Art 50.
If the amendment fails, which is likely, Labour will vote to leave.It will be interesting to see exactly what wording Labour propose to go in the brexit bill on the Single Market.
In theory this could set the foundation for a consultation on the brexit outcome prior to committing the country to actually leave.
The open question will be if the reversability of Art 50 becomes a key point.
If the bill amendment is clever, it may force clarity on confirming the reversibilty of Art 50 (ie it can be) before the UK can invoke it - otherwise the govt could be irrovecably changing our SM access just by declaring Art 50.
Nothing to see here. Brexit will go ahead.
If it fails then no art 50.
May can't just do what she wants, the house have to agree.
All they have to do is put reasonable amendments that don't block brexit but that a majority of MPs will vote for, and job done.
Confirming the reversibility of Art 50 seems quite prudent given how vaguely/badly worded it is and what the stakes are if our negotiation goes badly. Stupid not to really. But labour are a bit stupid so we may not be saved.
Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 3rd December 23:31
johnxjsc1985 said:
2020 isn't that fa away and 17 million people are waiting to give their verdict on their MP and they know this
And I can't understand why May doesn't go for a GE now. Whatever the Supreme Court says (presumably the same as HIgh Court) I'd table a simple Art50 bill the day after, make it plain, that if its amended or f
ked with in anyway, she's calling an election - a tabling a no confidence vote in her own govt (due to a perceived lack of mandate) and 3line whip her MPs would do it, explaining to the 17m why is simple enough - to get a vote of confidence from the people on her handling of Brexit.She'll never have lead in the polls like this again.
I've never voted Tory but even I would in Brexit GE, although a UK vote in my northern Brexit shire might see the red donkey unseated.
(Oh for the benefit of the "it's a fixed for 5yrs" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/earl...
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 3rd December 23:35
Northern Munkee said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
2020 isn't that fa away and 17 million people are waiting to give their verdict on their MP and they know this
And I can't understand why May doesn't go for a GE now. Whatever the Supreme Court (presumably the same as HIgh Court) I'd table a simple Art50 bill the day after, make it plain, that if its amended or fked with in any way, she's calling an election, a tabling a no confidence vote in her own govt (due to a perceived lack of mandate) and 3line whip her MPs, to get a vote of confidence from the people on her handling of Brexit.She'll never have lead in the polls like this again.
They will lose at the supreme court (and it's right they do)
Parliament will have the vote on Art.50
And she will be defeated
Then she'll call a GE
Even Corbyn will lose his seat
It will be f
king epic........///ajd said:
The govt need the bill to trigger art 50.
If it fails then no art 50.
May can't just do what she wants, the house have to agree.
All they have to do is put reasonable amendments that don't block brexit but that a majority of MPs will vote for, and job done.
Confirming the reversibility of Art 50 seems quite prudent given how vaguely/badly worded it is and what the stakes are if our negotiation goes badly. Stupid not to really. But labour are a bit stupid so we may not be saved.
Why do they need the bill? We haven't had the court ruling yet.If it fails then no art 50.
May can't just do what she wants, the house have to agree.
All they have to do is put reasonable amendments that don't block brexit but that a majority of MPs will vote for, and job done.
Confirming the reversibility of Art 50 seems quite prudent given how vaguely/badly worded it is and what the stakes are if our negotiation goes badly. Stupid not to really. But labour are a bit stupid so we may not be saved.
Edited by ///ajd on Saturday 3rd December 23:31
///ajd said:
bmw535i said:
Why do they need the bill? We haven't had the court ruling yet.
They need the bill if they lose the appeal. I read in the daily fail that all 11 jugdes once spoke to someone whose grandma knew someone who had met a remain voter. So its obviously rigged.
USE some punctuation - it's, not its.
dandarez said:
You trying to keep up with me slasher ajd? You are making error after error. What's a jugdes?
USE some punctuation - it's, not its.
You didn't use proper caps in all your sentences in the other thread - didn't you check? Sloppy. Throwing stones in glass houses.USE some punctuation - it's, not its.
3x higher with lower turnout. You know that means its even more than 3x, right?
philv said:
Why would we want to know whether art 50 is reversable?
What message does that give the EU?
That if they make it tough we won't leave after all.
Great negotiating strategy.
If Art 50 is reversible our negotiating hand is stronger as we can e.g. prolong the talks if the deal is not good.What message does that give the EU?
That if they make it tough we won't leave after all.
Great negotiating strategy.
Negotiating up against a brick wall timeline with catastrophic WTO outcome makes our position very weak indeed. The govt will be desparate to avoid WTO and might be forced to agree to any old poor deal (for us) the EU want to impose. Rememberr they will want to send a signal about how good it is in the EU. The sooner they send that message the better for them.
///ajd said:
I read in the daily fail that all 11 jugdes once spoke to someone whose grandma knew someone who had met a remain voter. So its obviously rigged.
... --- ... / -....- / -.-. .-.. . .- .-. .-.. -.-- / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / .... .- ... / -... . . -. / .... .- -.-. -.- . -.. / -....- / .. / -.- -. --- .-- / - .... .. ... / -... . -.-. .- ..- ... . / - .... . .-. . / .. ... / -. --- / .-- .- -.-- / .. -. / --. --- -.. ... / --. .-. . . -. / . .- .-. - .... / - .... .- - / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .-. . .- -.. ... / - .... . / -.. .- .. .-.. -.-- / -- .- .. .-.. / -....- / .. / .... .- ...- . / .-. . .--. --- .-. - . -.. / - .... .. ... / .--. --- ... - / ... --- / - .... .- - / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - --- .-. ... / --- .-. / .- -.. -- .. -. / -.-. .- -. / ..-. .-. . . --.. . / - .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / - .. .-.. .-.. / - .... . / .-. . .- .-.. / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / -.-. .- -. / .-. . -.-. --- ...- . .-. / .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. . ... ...///ajd said:
If Art 50 is reversible our negotiating hand is stronger as we can e.g. prolong the talks if the deal is not good.
Negotiating up against a brick wall timeline with catastrophic WTO outcome makes our position very weak indeed. The govt will be desparate to avoid WTO and might be forced to agree to any old poor deal (for us) the EU want to impose. Rememberr they will want to send a signal about how good it is in the EU. The sooner they send that message the better for them.
They've been sending that signal along with the remain campaign - it didn't work. Negotiating up against a brick wall timeline with catastrophic WTO outcome makes our position very weak indeed. The govt will be desparate to avoid WTO and might be forced to agree to any old poor deal (for us) the EU want to impose. Rememberr they will want to send a signal about how good it is in the EU. The sooner they send that message the better for them.
B'stard Child said:
Now would not be a good time - not enough people trust her
They will lose at the supreme court (and it's right they do)
Parliament will have the vote on Art.50
And she will be defeated
Then she'll call a GE
Even Corbyn will lose his seat
It will be fking epic........
I think we're broadly in agreement. It's going to an art 50 parliament vote, I'm encouraging her to insist on it being voted through unamended They will lose at the supreme court (and it's right they do)
Parliament will have the vote on Art.50
And she will be defeated
Then she'll call a GE
Even Corbyn will lose his seat
It will be f
king epic........or vote it down = General Election
It's just timing we disagree on, I can be flexible, just sooner rather than later as I fear the longer she plays the remainers game the longer the confidence in her will wane (as she starts to be blamed for the delay trying to jump through procedural hoops put in her way) better to call their bluff and have it out now.
///ajd said:
philv said:
Why would we want to know whether art 50 is reversable?
What message does that give the EU?
That if they make it tough we won't leave after all.
Great negotiating strategy.
If Art 50 is reversible our negotiating hand is stronger as we can e.g. prolong the talks if the deal is not good.What message does that give the EU?
That if they make it tough we won't leave after all.
Great negotiating strategy.
Negotiating up against a brick wall timeline with catastrophic WTO outcome makes our position very weak indeed. The govt will be desparate to avoid WTO and might be forced to agree to any old poor deal (for us) the EU want to impose. Rememberr they will want to send a signal about how good it is in the EU. The sooner they send that message the better for them.
If they have any inkling we might reverse course before tne 2 years is up, tnen tney give ground on nothing and make it as painful as possiblr, knowing we will abort.
Job done for the EU.
The only way it works is to leave for sure, whatever the result of the negotiations, and hope the EU see some sense.
Also anything else goes against rne result of tne referendum of course.
Edited by philv on Sunday 4th December 00:22
philv said:
Not sure i agree.
If they have any inkling we might reverse course before tne 2 years is up, tnen tney give ground on nothing and make it as painful as possiblr, knowing we will abort.
Job done for the EU.
The only way it works is to leave for sure, whatever the result of the negotiations, and hope the EU see some sense.
Also anything else goes against rne resuly of tne referendum of course.
Article 50 is reversible anyway - as long as everyone agrees.If they have any inkling we might reverse course before tne 2 years is up, tnen tney give ground on nothing and make it as painful as possiblr, knowing we will abort.
Job done for the EU.
The only way it works is to leave for sure, whatever the result of the negotiations, and hope the EU see some sense.
Also anything else goes against rne resuly of tne referendum of course.
B'stard Child said:
///ajd said:
I read in the daily fail that all 11 jugdes once spoke to someone whose grandma knew someone who had met a remain voter. So its obviously rigged.
... --- ... / -....- / -.-. .-.. . .- .-. .-.. -.-- / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / .... .- ... / -... . . -. / .... .- -.-. -.- . -.. / -....- / .. / -.- -. --- .-- / - .... .. ... / -... . -.-. .- ..- ... . / - .... . .-. . / .. ... / -. --- / .-- .- -.-- / .. -. / --. --- -.. ... / --. .-. . . -. / . .- .-. - .... / - .... .- - / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .-. . .- -.. ... / - .... . / -.. .- .. .-.. -.-- / -- .- .. .-.. / -....- / .. / .... .- ...- . / .-. . .--. --- .-. - . -.. / - .... .. ... / .--. --- ... - / ... --- / - .... .- - / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - --- .-. ... / --- .-. / .- -.. -- .. -. / -.-. .- -. / ..-. .-. . . --.. . / - .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / - .. .-.. .-.. / - .... . / .-. . .- .-.. / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / -.-. .- -. / .-. . -.-. --- ...- . .-. / .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. . ... ...http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz...
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