Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[B'stard Child]

Northern Munkee said:

B'stard Child said:

Now would not be a good time - not enough people trust her

They will lose at the supreme court (and it's right they do)

Parliament will have the vote on Art.50

And she will be defeated

Then she'll call a GE

Even Corbyn will lose his seat

It will be fking epic........

I think we're broadly in agreement. It's going to an art 50 parliament vote, I'm encouraging her to insist on it being voted through unamended
or vote it down = General Election

It's just timing we disagree on, I can be flexible, just sooner rather than later as I fear the longer she plays the remainers game the longer the confidence in her will wane (as she starts to be blamed for the delay trying to jump through procedural hoops put in her way) better to call their bluff and have it out now.

we are in agreement but timing for me is very important - she's been a bloody good leaver for a remainer - she's also been a devious bh - not in maggie's league but she's getting close

I'd hate for her to shoot her bolt early - wait till you see the whites of their eyes then fire

[Northern Munkee]

philv said:

Not sure i agree.
If they have any inkling we might reverse course before tne 2 years is up, tnen tney give ground on nothing and make it as painful as possiblr, knowing we will abort.
Job done for the EU.

The only way it works is to leave for sure, whatever the result of the negotiations, and hope the EU see some sense.

Also anything else goes against rne resuly of tne referendum of course.

Agreed, it's only knowing we are prepared (if necessary - even if not desired) to walk away on the hardest of Brexit terms that will make them reasonable, although with Italy, Austria this weekend, France, Netherlands and Germany elections inside the 2yrs, the EU may have changed direction to such a degree that we might be glad to be out just as quickly as possible.

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

I read in the daily fail that all 11 jugdes once spoke to someone whose grandma knew someone who had met a remain voter. So its obviously rigged.

... --- ... / -....- / -.-. .-.. . .- .-. .-.. -.-- / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / .... .- ... / -... . . -. / .... .- -.-. -.- . -.. / -....- / .. / -.- -. --- .-- / - .... .. ... / -... . -.-. .- ..- ... . / - .... . .-. . / .. ... / -. --- / .-- .- -.-- / .. -. / --. --- -.. ... / --. .-. . . -. / . .- .-. - .... / - .... .- - / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .-. . .- -.. ... / - .... . / -.. .- .. .-.. -.-- / -- .- .. .-.. / -....- / .. / .... .- ...- . / .-. . .--. --- .-. - . -.. / - .... .. ... / .--. --- ... - / ... --- / - .... .- - / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - --- .-. ... / --- .-. / .- -.. -- .. -. / -.-. .- -. / ..-. .-. . . --.. . / - .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / - .. .-.. .-.. / - .... . / .-. . .- .-.. / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / -.-. .- -. / .-. . -.-. --- ...- . .-. / .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. . ... ...

To be fair I didn't read it first hand, I saw it here:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz...

I'm very relieved - I considered sending you a PM but figured that probably wouldn't work if your account had been hacked

[Murph7355]

///ajd said:

The govt need the bill to trigger art 50.

If it fails then no art 50.

May can't just do what she wants, the house have to agree.

All they have to do is put reasonable amendments that don't block brexit but that a majority of MPs will vote for, and job done.

Confirming the reversibility of Art 50 seems quite prudent given how vaguely/badly worded it is and what the stakes are if our negotiation goes badly. Stupid not to really. But labour are a bit stupid so we may not be saved.

Have you ever been involved in a serious negotiation before?

Fannying about with worrying about the reversibility of Article 50 is pointless if the objective is to accept the result of the vote held on 23rd June and to have every intention of us leaving the EU. If the EU believe we may want to reverse a decision within the 2yr time limit, what sort of deal do you think they'd put forward?

Let me give you a clue - pretty much the exact same one they offered Cameron.

Let me give you another clue - UK citizens did not like the deal Cameron came back with. We voted against it.

What makes you think we'll like it any more in 2yrs' time?

The EU never really thought through the process of a state leaving because its leaders over its history have been too arrogant to think anyone could disagree with them. Their arrogance has not dissipated one jot. They need to know we're going so that they can concentrate on helping their own industries/people during the negotiations - ie negotiate sensibly without the politicking of trying to get us to reverse decisions/stay.

[B'stard Child]

Murph7355 said:

The EU never really thought through the process of a state leaving because its leaders over its history have been too arrogant to think anyone could disagree with them. Their arrogance has not dissipated one jot. They need to know we're going so that they can concentrate on helping their own industries/people during the negotiations - ie negotiate sensibly without the politicking of trying to get us to reverse decisions/stay.

You know it - I know it - most of PH know it

There is however a small issue - the EU doesn't know it

It's why part of me wants the UK to just foxtrot oscar (no negotiation just GTFO) The bit of me that doesn't agree is because way too many people are going to have kittens or a meltdown

[///ajd]

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

I read in the daily fail that all 11 jugdes once spoke to someone whose grandma knew someone who had met a remain voter. So its obviously rigged.

... --- ... / -....- / -.-. .-.. . .- .-. .-.. -.-- / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / .... .- ... / -... . . -. / .... .- -.-. -.- . -.. / -....- / .. / -.- -. --- .-- / - .... .. ... / -... . -.-. .- ..- ... . / - .... . .-. . / .. ... / -. --- / .-- .- -.-- / .. -. / --. --- -.. ... / --. .-. . . -. / . .- .-. - .... / - .... .- - / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .-. . .- -.. ... / - .... . / -.. .- .. .-.. -.-- / -- .- .. .-.. / -....- / .. / .... .- ...- . / .-. . .--. --- .-. - . -.. / - .... .. ... / .--. --- ... - / ... --- / - .... .- - / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - --- .-. ... / --- .-. / .- -.. -- .. -. / -.-. .- -. / ..-. .-. . . --.. . / - .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / - .. .-.. .-.. / - .... . / .-. . .- .-.. / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / -.-. .- -. / .-. . -.-. --- ...- . .-. / .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. . ... ...

To be fair I didn't read it first hand, I saw it here:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz...

I'm very relieved - I considered sending you a PM but figured that probably wouldn't work if your account had been hacked

I must confess that since the ref I have started to scan some of the more outrageous papers like the fail and express.

Some of the spin and bile they publish as 'fact' is really not helping anyone.

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

I read in the daily fail that all 11 jugdes once spoke to someone whose grandma knew someone who had met a remain voter. So its obviously rigged.

... --- ... / -....- / -.-. .-.. . .- .-. .-.. -.-- / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / .... .- ... / -... . . -. / .... .- -.-. -.- . -.. / -....- / .. / -.- -. --- .-- / - .... .. ... / -... . -.-. .- ..- ... . / - .... . .-. . / .. ... / -. --- / .-- .- -.-- / .. -. / --. --- -.. ... / --. .-. . . -. / . .- .-. - .... / - .... .- - / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / .-. . .- -.. ... / - .... . / -.. .- .. .-.. -.-- / -- .- .. .-.. / -....- / .. / .... .- ...- . / .-. . .--. --- .-. - . -.. / - .... .. ... / .--. --- ... - / ... --- / - .... .- - / -- --- -.. . .-. .- - --- .-. ... / --- .-. / .- -.. -- .. -. / -.-. .- -. / ..-. .-. . . --.. . / - .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. --- ..- -. - / - .. .-.. .-.. / - .... . / .-. . .- .-.. / ... .-.. .- ... .... . .-. / .- .--- -.. / -.-. .- -. / .-. . -.-. --- ...- . .-. / .... .. ... / .- -.-. -.-. . ... ...

To be fair I didn't read it first hand, I saw it here:

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/maajid-nawaz...

I'm very relieved - I considered sending you a PM but figured that probably wouldn't work if your account had been hacked

I must confess that since the ref I have started to scan some of the more outrageous papers like the fail and express.

Some of the spin and bile they publish as 'fact' is really not helping anyone.

Genuine advice - don't - please don't - it will suck you in and you won't even see it happening

My parents have been reading the mail for as long as I can remember and I can confirm that RYH64E had people like that down to a tee they are complete "obsessive, swivel eyed loons with time on their hands"

Guardian readers are also in the same camp but I'm sure you favour a more balanced approach to news

[anonymous-user]

///ajd said:

I must confess that since the ref I have started to scan some of the more outrageous papers like the fail and express.

Some of the spin and bile they publish as 'fact' is really not helping anyone.

Do you think the "facts" you come out with are helpful?

[don4l]

We really need to have a General Election, or a second referendum as soon as possible. There is no other way to restore national unity.

My opinion is that if the Remoaners are given a damn good kicking, then a significant proportion of them will see sense.

They feel shame when they listen to this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAov-YqHSlc&t=...

In times gone past, they would have been lined up against the wall, and shot.

[///ajd]

Murph7355 said:

///ajd said:

The govt need the bill to trigger art 50.

If it fails then no art 50.

May can't just do what she wants, the house have to agree.

All they have to do is put reasonable amendments that don't block brexit but that a majority of MPs will vote for, and job done.

Confirming the reversibility of Art 50 seems quite prudent given how vaguely/badly worded it is and what the stakes are if our negotiation goes badly. Stupid not to really. But labour are a bit stupid so we may not be saved.

Have you ever been involved in a serious negotiation before?

Fannying about with worrying about the reversibility of Article 50 is pointless if the objective is to accept the result of the vote held on 23rd June and to have every intention of us leaving the EU. If the EU believe we may want to reverse a decision within the 2yr time limit, what sort of deal do you think they'd put forward?

Let me give you a clue - pretty much the exact same one they offered Cameron.

Let me give you another clue - UK citizens did not like the deal Cameron came back with. We voted against it.

What makes you think we'll like it any more in 2yrs' time?

The EU never really thought through the process of a state leaving because its leaders over its history have been too arrogant to think anyone could disagree with them. Their arrogance has not dissipated one jot. They need to know we're going so that they can concentrate on helping their own industries/people during the negotiations - ie negotiate sensibly without the politicking of trying to get us to reverse decisions/stay.

Yes I have conducted negotiations on large projects.

Some of the trickiest have involved pricing where the seller knows I have to place a contact by a certain date. I always seek opportunities to secure what concessions I need before I get to such a deadline, and avoid being put in that position - but it is not always possible.

If I was doing brexit - even putting aside my reservations and assuming that I would definately go through with it - I would not want to be in a position where I had to accept whatever the EU had decided to agree to by date X. Art 50 is really a terrible weakness for us as its written.

We are not in the same position now as Cameron - we have to negotiate a complete exit and discuss what that looks like. It is totally different situation.

I actually think the EU will want to clarify what leave looks like as soon as possible - but for them this could be slow. We can't afford to be stuck with a poor deal after 2 years as some EU states dragged their feet over a position we needed to resolve.

I'd agree that an EU exit had not been anticipated properly - that is why Art 50 is not well written and vague - and this is a risk for us.

[anonymous-user]

don4l said:

We really need to have a General Election, or a second referendum as soon as possible. There is no other way to restore national unity.

My opinion is that if the Remoaners are given a damn good kicking, then a significant proportion of them will see sense.

They feel shame when they listen to this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAov-YqHSlc&t=...

In times gone past, they would have been lined up against the wall, and shot.

A lot of remainers will never commit allegience to such a nasty insular little England. We are better than that.
GE of second referendum? I do hope so. 1 MP ukip will remain an irrelevance . 1 MP Greens have more influence. LDs will win a load of seats as the only committed remain party (so pretty well guaranteed 48.x% votes + those who now realise they were lied to by the nasty side).
The Brexit side will be the ones who will suffer most if it ever happens, remainers will perversely be affected less by the self induced turmoil ..
No shame . We will win & you know it Brexit is unravelling before your eyes Haha.

[anonymous-user]

Jimboka said:

A lot of remainers will never commit allegience to such a nasty insular little England. We are better than that.
GE of second referendum? I do hope so. 1 MP ukip will remain an irrelevance . 1 MP Greens have more influence. LDs will win a load of seats as the only committed remain party (so pretty well guaranteed 48.x% votes + those who now realise they were lied to by the nasty side).
The Brexit side will be the ones who will suffer most if it ever happens, remainers will perversely be affected less by the self induced turmoil ..
No shame . We will win & you know it Brexit is unravelling before your eyes Haha.

There is no point trying to have a debate with don4l when he has been on the tramp juice.
He is only interested in winding up "remoaners" and "lefties"

[B'stard Child]

Looking forward to quoting all of Jimboka's posts in 864 days time

[anonymous-user]

Jimboka said:

A lot of remainers will never commit allegience to such a nasty insular little England. We are better than that.
GE of second referendum? I do hope so. 1 MP ukip will remain an irrelevance . 1 MP Greens have more influence. LDs will win a load of seats as the only committed remain party (so pretty well guaranteed 48.x% votes + those who now realise they were lied to by the nasty side).
The Brexit side will be the ones who will suffer most if it ever happens, remainers will perversely be affected less by the self induced turmoil ..
No shame . We will win & you know it Brexit is unravelling before your eyes Haha.

Most deluded post ever, quite funny though

[Elysium]

don4l said:

We really need to have a General Election, or a second referendum as soon as possible. There is no other way to restore national unity.

My opinion is that if the Remoaners are given a damn good kicking, then a significant proportion of them will see sense.

They feel shame when they listen to this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAov-YqHSlc&t=...

In times gone past, they would have been lined up against the wall, and shot.

I thought that calling for a second referendum was unpatriotic?

Shooting the opposition is an interesting idea. I think that is called a dictatorship?

[sidicks]

Jimboka said:

A lot of remainers will never commit allegience to such a nasty insular little England. We are better than that.
GE of second referendum? I do hope so. 1 MP ukip will remain an irrelevance . 1 MP Greens have more influence. LDs will win a load of seats as the only committed remain party (so pretty well guaranteed 48.x% votes + those who now realise they were lied to by the nasty side).
The Brexit side will be the ones who will suffer most if it ever happens, remainers will perversely be affected less by the self induced turmoil ..
No shame . We will win & you know it Brexit is unravelling before your eyes Haha.

As always, you are a moron!

[anonymous-user]

sidicks said:

Jimboka said:

A lot of remainers will never commit allegience to such a nasty insular little England. We are better than that.
GE of second referendum? I do hope so. 1 MP ukip will remain an irrelevance . 1 MP Greens have more influence. LDs will win a load of seats as the only committed remain party (so pretty well guaranteed 48.x% votes + those who now realise they were lied to by the nasty side).
The Brexit side will be the ones who will suffer most if it ever happens, remainers will perversely be affected less by the self induced turmoil ..
No shame . We will win & you know it Brexit is unravelling before your eyes Haha.

As always, you are a moron!

I can always rely on logging into PH of a morning and having some deluded rubbish written by Ajd or Jim.

It's quite interesting how people can be so blinkered

[Dr Jekyll]

http://from-the-white-cliffs.co.uk/richmond-park-r...

[don'tbesilly]

Dr Jekyll said:

http://from-the-white-cliffs.co.uk/richmond-park-r...

Just for more lols

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLa7QVTJuRc

[B'stard Child]

Dr Jekyll said:

http://from-the-white-cliffs.co.uk/richmond-park-r...

Oh thank you - what a great way to start the day - a Guardian Link that doesn't have me sitting feathers and link to a parody related to the recent by-election that I'm still chuckling at....