Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[///ajd]

John145 said:

It's because you are benefitting.

Carney's speech today is part of the reason for leave.

Another is the attitude of eu leaders - why have tusk and juncker not resigned after brexit?

People see brexit as an opportunity for change. There is no doubt in my mind that to remain would be to add yet more labour to a drowning market. Only a leave vote offers a change to this. If it was up to me today we would have an emergency brake on immigration. When the nhs is in meltdown in their traditionally quiet periods surely this is a warning sign that something is wrong.

What makes me laugh is the idea that all immigration is a net benefit. If that were the case then we should be the fastest growing nation on earth as no other country in the world is accepting so much in terms of their size.

Your blindness to the negatives of the status quo is a damning reflection of your empathy skills.

Well, you clearly think that.

But my view is that immigration is tiny in relative terms and not the cause of our woes - but believe me I appreciate we have woes.

The negatives of the status quo can't be laid at the door of immigration, no matter how much you might want everything to get magically better should we apply an emergency brake.

I firmly believe it will just affect our economy and in turn GDP and all our NHS.

So whilst I fully expect you will continue to disagree - it seems likely we will all be worse off, not better. It is frustrating as I feel many have been sold a huge immigration lie but the reality is controlling it won't make a tangibly beneficial difference - and the other downsides of ditching the EU will have a far bigger negative effect.

We were growing pretty nicely prior to the vote, relative to the world. We'll have to see how that pans out.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

Because generally 'excited' and 'I can't wait' mean the same thing.

Generally, or always?

I'm not excited, just can't wait.

I think it's probably time you let it go maybe? What I think shouldn't really bother you to this extent.

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

p1stonhead said:

Because generally 'excited' and 'I can't wait' mean the same thing.

Generally, or always?

I'm not excited, just can't wait.

I think it's probably time you let it go maybe? What I think shouldn't really bother you to this extent.

Fine by me. Seeing as you can't tell me what ' I can't wait' means if you didn't mean excited and obviously (like us all) don't know what you are waiting for, i'll take that as a 'leave me alone with your logic!'

[///ajd]

don'tbesilly said:

///ajd said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

I was led to believe that my Vote counted and I voted leave with the expectation that the Government would then get on with the process of leaving the EU. I didn't vote to leave just to be told I was too thick to understand the consequences and maybe more intelligent folk need to have a look to see if this was actually the right thing to do.
I have never been on strike or been on a protest march in my life but if this Referendum isn't honoured then I will be right alongside Hartley Brewer and I know a lot of people feel the same.

I fully understand and appreciate the strength of your feeling.

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

If there had not been a referendum at all, I'm not sure you'd be jumping up and down saying "I want a referendum to leave the EU".

There is a chance you would of course - kippers are passionate about it - but there are only around 4 million of them - for millions I suspect it would have been business as usual and meh.

Do you know johnxjsc1985 is a UKIP supporter? You seem to be suggesting he is above.

Have you asked? Or has he said as much? Or are you twisting what has been written in his post?

johnxjsc1985 are you a UKIP supporter?

No I didn't mean that though I can see reading it back it could be taken as that.

I meant there is a chance he would want a referendum - and then used kippers as an example of people who clearly do - I was not trying to conflate the two.

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

[B'stard Child]

p1stonhead said:

B'stard Child said:

p1stonhead said:

B'stard Child said:

Great points scoring - fun for you both?

Just trying to get a point across to someone who thinks like a toddler.

Or someone who you think "thinks like a toddler" - perspective is fun like that

Now how well can you reason with a toddler - I've never had much success.

Oh for sure, not easy to reason with one but in my experience the comparison is quite apt in regards to how my toddler nephews act

'We're going on a trip today!'

'Yay I can't wait'

'Wait, do you want to know where?'

'Trip! Trip! Trip!'

'We're going to Ikea'

........

Last dealing I had with a toddler was a decade ago playing some childrens game on a TV console - might have been a super mario or varient - he was quite good - I had to work hard to beat him - promptly afterwards he burst into tears and threw a hissy fit on the floor... I was amazed!!! Once it was explained to me that both his parents never allowed him to lose everything was clear....

He's a teenager now and his behaviour hasn't improved - Apparently all teenagers are like that I should just ignore his rudeness....

Looking forward to seeing how he handles the real world when he finally sees it - probably not very well

On the other side of the coin - I watched my sister once suggest the whole family (Mum and Dad and three kids) went to Lakeside and the eldest said "hands up who doesn't want to go to lakeside and three kids and the dad all stuck their arms in the air - nice to see democracy in action

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

Because generally 'excited' and 'I can't wait' mean the same thing.

And I care because you voted out without seemingly any reason other than 'just get me out of whatever I don't care what actually happens!'

Edited by p1stonhead on Monday 5th December 22:56

As I alluded to before in my "zzzzzzzz" post, I've explained my reasons for voting leave many times over the last nearly 700 pages.

It doesn't really matter though does it? Getting worked up about my reasons, or lack thereof, for voting leave are not an issue any more. Time to move on perhaps?

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

Can you want to leave the EU and not be a racist or xenophobic?

[anonymous-user]

B'stard Child said:

Last dealing I had with a toddler was a decade ago playing some childrens game on a TV console - might have been a super mario or varient - he was quite good - I had to work hard to beat him - promptly afterwards he burst into tears and threw a hissy fit on the floor... I was amazed!!! Once it was explained to me that both his parents never allowed him to lose everything was clear....

He's a teenager now and his behaviour hasn't improved - Apparently all teenagers are like that I should just ignore his rudeness....

Looking forward to seeing how he handles the real world when he finally sees it - probably not very well

Did he keep saying he would beat you before the inevitable happened?

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

don'tbesilly said:

///ajd said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

I was led to believe that my Vote counted and I voted leave with the expectation that the Government would then get on with the process of leaving the EU. I didn't vote to leave just to be told I was too thick to understand the consequences and maybe more intelligent folk need to have a look to see if this was actually the right thing to do.
I have never been on strike or been on a protest march in my life but if this Referendum isn't honoured then I will be right alongside Hartley Brewer and I know a lot of people feel the same.

I fully understand and appreciate the strength of your feeling.

But other than being annoyed with the govt messing about - why is it so important?

If there had not been a referendum at all, I'm not sure you'd be jumping up and down saying "I want a referendum to leave the EU".

There is a chance you would of course - kippers are passionate about it - but there are only around 4 million of them - for millions I suspect it would have been business as usual and meh.

Do you know johnxjsc1985 is a UKIP supporter? You seem to be suggesting he is above.

Have you asked? Or has he said as much? Or are you twisting what has been written in his post?

johnxjsc1985 are you a UKIP supporter?

No I didn't mean that though I can see reading it back it could be taken as that.

Yeah right, it's not as though you've never done it before, edited posts, deliberately misrepresented what someone has said.

It is your modus operandi, your raison d'etre, excuse the French, but I know you know what I mean

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

<snip> my view is that immigration is tiny in relative terms and not the cause of our woes - but believe me I appreciate we have woes.

The negatives of the status quo can't be laid at the door of immigration, no matter how much you might want everything to get magically better should we apply an emergency brake.

I firmly believe it will just affect our economy and in turn GDP and all our NHS.

So whilst I fully expect you will continue to disagree - it seems likely we will all be worse off, not better. It is frustrating as I feel many have been sold a huge immigration lie but the reality is controlling it won't make a tangibly beneficial difference - and the other downsides of ditching the EU will have a far bigger negative effect.

<snip>

And here we are back to your core subject. That word "immigration" got repeated 3 times above - you apparently only 33% of the leave vote was "immigration related"

What about the other 67%?

[anonymous-user]

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

Can you want to leave the EU and not be a racist or xenophobic?

The "R" word!!!!



















And point scoring

[B'stard Child]

bmw535i said:

B'stard Child said:

Last dealing I had with a toddler was a decade ago playing some childrens game on a TV console - might have been a super mario or varient - he was quite good - I had to work hard to beat him - promptly afterwards he burst into tears and threw a hissy fit on the floor... I was amazed!!! Once it was explained to me that both his parents never allowed him to lose everything was clear....

He's a teenager now and his behaviour hasn't improved - Apparently all teenagers are like that I should just ignore his rudeness....

Looking forward to seeing how he handles the real world when he finally sees it - probably not very well

Did he keep saying he would beat you before the inevitable happened?

Might have done...... Like I said he was quite good and I was never brought up on computer games so took me a while to get the hang of it

[johnxjsc1985]

Cameron is the Architect of this Referendum shouldn't he be questioned as to how he believed this would work and how he ensured that the will of the people would be paramount regardless of the outcome.

[///ajd]

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

Can you want to leave the EU and not be a racist or xenophobic?

Yes.

I don't think the obsession of sizable number of leavers with immigration is necessarily motivated by xenophobia or racism.

There has been an idea planted however that immigration is the cause of all our woes and brexit will fix everything. A lot of leave voters (not all) seem to believe that. I think they will end up very disappointed.

[B'stard Child]

bmw535i said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

Can you want to leave the EU and not be a racist or xenophobic?

The "R" word!!!!

And point scoring

Both words are in a dictionary

It was a question?

Glad you got your coat - it's cold out there

[don'tbesilly]

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

Can you want to leave the EU and not be a racist or xenophobic?

I'm amazed you asked ///ajd the question, was it a trick one?

You can't possibly have been trying to trip him up

[p1stonhead]

bmw535i said:

B'stard Child said:

Last dealing I had with a toddler was a decade ago playing some childrens game on a TV console - might have been a super mario or varient - he was quite good - I had to work hard to beat him - promptly afterwards he burst into tears and threw a hissy fit on the floor... I was amazed!!! Once it was explained to me that both his parents never allowed him to lose everything was clear....

He's a teenager now and his behaviour hasn't improved - Apparently all teenagers are like that I should just ignore his rudeness....

Looking forward to seeing how he handles the real world when he finally sees it - probably not very well

Did he keep saying he would beat you before the inevitable happened?

And did the game have any rules so you knew what winning actually meant?

[///ajd]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Cameron is the Architect of this Referendum shouldn't he be questioned as to how he believed this would work and how he ensured that the will of the people would be paramount regardless of the outcome.

LOL

You do know it was just a bullingdon boys jolly jape to silence the eurosceptics?

It just went a bit wrong.

That's why he has gone into hiding.

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

You can want to leave the EU and not be a kipper.

Can you want to leave the EU and not be a racist or xenophobic?

Yes.

I don't think the obsession of sizable number of leavers with immigration is necessarily motivated by xenophobia or racism.

We may be getting somewhere......

///ajd said:

There has been an idea planted however that immigration is the cause of all our woes and brexit will fix everything. A lot of leave voters (not all) seem to believe that. I think they will end up very disappointed.

Seed didn't really take hold though did it - only 33%

Will the 67% also be disappointed?

Will 100% of those that voted remain be disappointed?

[///ajd]

B'stard Child said:

///ajd said:

<snip> my view is that immigration is tiny in relative terms and not the cause of our woes - but believe me I appreciate we have woes.

The negatives of the status quo can't be laid at the door of immigration, no matter how much you might want everything to get magically better should we apply an emergency brake.

I firmly believe it will just affect our economy and in turn GDP and all our NHS.

So whilst I fully expect you will continue to disagree - it seems likely we will all be worse off, not better. It is frustrating as I feel many have been sold a huge immigration lie but the reality is controlling it won't make a tangibly beneficial difference - and the other downsides of ditching the EU will have a far bigger negative effect.

<snip>

And here we are back to your core subject. That word "immigration" got repeated 3 times above - you apparently only 33% of the leave vote was "immigration related"

What about the other 67%?

It was a reply to the leaver who talked at length about how everything would be great if we just applied an emergency brake to immigration.

Why don't you ask him?