Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[wc98]

Mrr T said:

You response starts ok. Yes EU immigrants get child benefit where ever the children live but not working family tax credit or housing benefit.

They do also send some money home. Not much in my experience. BMW buyers also send money abroad.

You then start down the typical all EU E10+2 immigrants have minimal skills and are working minimum wage jobs.

How about a more realistic view. Most E10+2 immigrants are well qualified. While many start on low paid work most will get better jobs more consumer with their skills. They will then be paying large amounts of tax while receiving minimal money back from the UK. Without them our ageing population will suffer a dramatic fall in their standards of living.

i don't think we have a good enough analysis of the eu immigrant workforce to be certain to that level. the only abuse i have great concern over is the abuse and exploitation of many of those involved in the lower paid sectors.no one is going to convince me it is a good idea to have thousands of farm workers living in caravans on site 12 months of the year , or thousands in accommodation you would not put your dog in living several to a room .

reports of people working effectively as slave labour are increasing,and quite frankly i do not trust the sttier sector of business owners in the uk to treat this sector of the workforce fairly. we all know what happened to a load of chinese cockle pickers in morecambe bay when no one was interested in how they were being treated .

[wc98]

W124 said:

I wonder what would happen if more than 50% of the voting population took up that offer.

i will be very upset if the 48% do not all take up that offer ! joking aside, depending on how it works, it may turn out to be a good idea. it does look like those involved just woke up to the fact we are leaving though. it also suggests those running the eu already see themselves as running a state or country if they feel they can issue rights to live and work there without consulting the heads of the member states that make up the eu.

i still don't understand the problem with the ability to live and work elsewhere . pre eu people managed no problem and we all seem to manage when living and working outside the eu , so those banging on and on about this one issue puzzle me no end.

[Elysium]

W124 said:

barryrs said:

jamoor said:

Good news for all concerned.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

Personally I think its simply being tabled to ensure the country remains divided.

I wonder what would happen if more than 50% of the voting population took up that offer.

I think it is just mischief on the part of the EU.

[Deptford Draylons]

jamoor said:

Good news for all concerned.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

Odd that we now know the rights of both EU citizens here, and Brits in the EU, was something May attempted to take out of the equation early on with a mutual agreement , but which was turned down, yet they are seemingly more interested with this display of the caring, sharing EU towards us. My cynicism may be showing.

[anonymous-user]

Greg66 said:

I am more than happy to recognise the value of of your contributions to this thread between 8.33 this morning and 3.29 this afternoon. Please keep that up.

Er okaaaay.

Perhaps this will cheer you up.....

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/n...

[paulrockliffe]

Elysium said:

W124 said:

barryrs said:

jamoor said:

Good news for all concerned.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brex...

Personally I think its simply being tabled to ensure the country remains divided.

I wonder what would happen if more than 50% of the voting population took up that offer.

I think it is just mischief on the part of the EU.

Of course. Because how could it be offered without the UK having to reciprocate? Which isn't going to happen.

It'll be interesting to see what rights they are offering, given that there is no such thing as a Citizen of the EU...... Oh. It's part of the plan to create Citizenship through the back door, makes sense now.

We could of course accept this proposal, then nulify it by changing the law on Dual Nationality, give people a proper choice.

[jamoor]

paulrockliffe said:

Of course. Because how could it be offered without the UK having to reciprocate? Which isn't going to happen.

It'll be interesting to see what rights they are offering, given that there is no such thing as a Citizen of the EU...... Oh. It's part of the plan to create Citizenship through the back door, makes sense now.

We could of course accept this proposal, then nulify it by changing the law on Dual Nationality, give people a proper choice.

You wouldn't get dual nationality surely, I think it will be more of a your British nationality gives you xyz privileges.

[Getragdogleg]

A question to all those who would accept Citizenship of the EU;

What is it that you get out of the EU or see in the EU that Britain does not give you ?

In other words (and to clarify my question) What advantages does EU membership give you personally ?

I am keen to hear why Pro EU people are Pro and I admit I have never received a satisfactory answer to this question, the best answer I ever got is that the person identified as European because they spend a lot of time in France and they did not feel French or British but liked that they could drive to Belgium for the day and not feel like they were going to another different country. That to me was just that that person liked the convenience of the travel/border arrangements and didn't want to see that go away.

[paulrockliffe]

jamoor said:

paulrockliffe said:

Of course. Because how could it be offered without the UK having to reciprocate? Which isn't going to happen.

It'll be interesting to see what rights they are offering, given that there is no such thing as a Citizen of the EU...... Oh. It's part of the plan to create Citizenship through the back door, makes sense now.

We could of course accept this proposal, then nulify it by changing the law on Dual Nationality, give people a proper choice.

You wouldn't get dual nationality surely, I think it will be more of a your British nationality gives you xyz privileges.

Barnier is offering EU Citizenship if an individual chooses to opt-in. Ie pay for it.

I can't see how it works, other than as a mechanism for creating the EU Citizen as a concept for everyone. It'll be opt-in across the continent, no one will sign up, then they'll take control of benefits and make them EU Citizen only and take it from there.

Just your usual everyday EU daft as a brush nonsense.

[s2art]

paulrockliffe said:

Barnier is offering EU Citizenship if an individual chooses to opt-in. Ie pay for it.

I can't see how it works, other than as a mechanism for creating the EU Citizen as a concept for everyone. It'll be opt-in across the continent, no one will sign up, then they'll take control of benefits and make them EU Citizen only and take it from there.

Just your usual everyday EU daft as a brush nonsense.

Basically this is just a variant on the Schengen visa. Probably cost approx 100 euro per year. Nothing very new here, if its an annual renewal then it really isnt offering EU 'citizenship' (whatever that means). Not to be sniffed at either, its offering UK passport holders privileged access to a EU wide visa.

[///ajd]

TonyToniTone said:

don4l said:

For those who are pretending that there was ever any doubt about leaving the Single Market:-

I voted No to the question that was put to me:

The referendum said:

(1)A referendum is to be held on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union.

(2)The Secretary of State must, by regulations, appoint the day on which the referendum is to be held.

(3)The day appointed under subsection (2)—

(a)must be no later than 31 December 2017,

(b)must not be 5 May 2016, and

(c)must not be 4 May 2017.

(4)The question that is to appear on the ballot papers is—

“Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?”

(5)The alternative answers to that question that are to appear on the ballot papers are—
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/36/sectio...

I didn't vote to leave the single market.

andymadmak said:

16 million MUST be listened to, you say?

Shame that you clearly think that the 17.5 million should not be listened to.

No amount of mealy mouthed doublespeak can disguise the clear agenda of a few ardent Remainers. People like you are an absolute disgrace. You dress up your determination to thwart the outcome of the vote in the clothes of faux concern for the future of the country. You select, twist and willfully misinterpret data. You seek constantly to talk down the Country. You insult, belittle and smear your oponents. You pretend that things were confused or unclear when they are not.
You demand to be heard but refuse to listen.

Get it through your thick skull, we are leaving. And we are leaving the SM too ( unless Brussels sees sense and gives us a deal to stay that ends FMOP) We all knew it. We voted for it.

Are you saying your fellow No voter tonytonitone has a thick skull and is a disgrace?


I'm getting the impression the noisier ones will be quite disappointed when May gets a Single Market deal to keep Nissan et al happy.

Edited by ///ajd on Friday 9th December 20:34

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

I'm getting the impression the noisier ones will be quite disappointed when May gets a Single Market deal to keep Nissan et al happy.

You told us just after Nissan announced continued production they were getting compensation from HMG if facing tariffs. Is that still your thoughts on what will happen ?

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

I'm getting the impression the noisier ones will be quite disappointed when May gets a Single Market deal to keep Nissan et al happy.

You told us just after Nissan announced continued production they were getting compensation from HMG if facing tariffs. Is that still your thoughts on what will happen ?

That was my thought when it seemed possible May was going for hard brexit - which was the tone in the run up to the meeting.

After the meeting it was clarified that as well as some local sweeteners on training and around the Nissan plant, they would secure a deal with the EU on aspects related to the Single Market. As Nissan would not be out of pocket or worse off vs the EU, compensation for hard tariff riddled brexit would not be required.

It should not be hard to work out why both positions are logical. I'm not convinced there is not more to the deal than "we'll try" when it comes to tariffs - I could be wrong but I suspect it is more concrete than that.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

I'm getting the impression the noisier ones will be quite disappointed when May gets a Single Market deal to keep Nissan et al happy.

You told us just after Nissan announced continued production they were getting compensation from HMG if facing tariffs. Is that still your thoughts on what will happen ?

That was my thought when it seemed possible May was going for hard brexit - which was the tone in the run up to the meeting.

After the meeting it was clarified that as well as some local sweeteners on training and around the Nissan plant, they would secure a deal with the EU on aspects related to the Single Market. As Nissan would not be out of pocket or worse off vs the EU, compensation for hard tariff riddled brexit would not be required.

It should not be hard to work out why both positions are logical. I'm not convinced there is not more to the deal than "we'll try" when it comes to tariffs - I could be wrong but I suspect it is more concrete than that.

From my admittedly limited understanding of what could happen, any compensation if facing tariffs would be illegal and a non starter on why you term ' hard brexit '.
Second is I was unaware we have had and clarification on why Nissan stayed , other than the talk of training. I don't see how you can claim this has happened in relation to easing Nissan 's concern on the single market unless May has already agreed something with the EU. I think I prefer to say both of us just don't know yet.

[anonymous-user]

Some people think article 50 has been triggered already

Second Brexit legal challenge could be tabled in Irish courts
http://news.sky.com/story/second-legal-challenge-t...

[130R]

W124 said:

I wonder what would happen if more than 50% of the voting population took up that offer.

Nothing since wanting the benefit of freedom of movement in EU countries certainly doesn't mean you want to be part of the EU. Why wouldn't everyone do this given the option if there were no strings attached (which there almost certainly will be).

[confused_buyer]

130R said:

othing since wanting the benefit of freedom of movement in EU countries certainly doesn't mean you want to be part of the EU. Why wouldn't everyone do this given the option if there were no strings attached (which there almost certainly will be).

It would take some major legal wrangling to do it selectively. EU "Citizenship" does not exist in it's own right - it only happens by virtue of being a citizen of a member country. It therefore isn't something which can simply be conveyed upon people and isn't the EU's gift to hand out.

I would imagine it would need treaty changes to allow it to exist in it's own right.

Therefore I think it would be a case that "associate" rights are either bestowed upon all UK passport holders or none at all.

[///ajd]

His Nigelness seems to be looking down sneeringly on his faithful.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/09/n...

What sort of things does he imagine his branch secretary in Lower Slaughter would say half-cut on Twitter, and why would that be a headache?

[Pan Pan Pan]

When Immigration and emigration is mentioned, we are told that there are approximately 3.9 million EU nationals living and working in the UK compared to approximately 1.6 million UK nationals living and working in the EU.
The key difference is that those 3.9 million have moved into an area of 94 thousand square miles, whereas UK nationals have moved into an area of 3.39 million square miles.
If anyone cannot see the difference that these numbers will have on each side of the immigration boundary, they are either being a bit dense or deliberately ignoring the relative effects that the influx of such numbers into each side of the boundary will have and is having.
It is not simply a matter of space (the entire human population of the Earth could fit onto the Isle of Wight) but of the effects that the numbers, differences in language, differences in cultures, differences in religions and many more matters is going to have on the smaller entity out of the two areas involved.
I don't care a jot about who they are or where the numbers are coming from, without adequate border controls, the smaller area is in danger of being overwhelmed by sheer numbers, as problems with housing, transport, schools and the health system currently attest.
Without adequate immigration controls, which are only possible if the UK goes out side the EU. the future for the UK as a cohesive nations looks decidedly perilous.

[alfie2244]

///ajd said:

His Nigelness seems to be looking down sneeringly on his faithful.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/09/n...

What sort of things does he imagine his branch secretary in Lower Slaughter would say half-cut on Twitter, and why would that be a headache?

You come across as a fixated bunny boiler....did you loosen his wheelnuts?