Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[b2hbm]

///ajd said:

I don't really want to pay for your vote. I won't feel the warm fuzzy benefit of less immigration like you will, when you visit Boston high street and it feels more British with no funny languages. If you want that, you should pay for it all yourself. The shops will still be boarded up though eh? Probably more so as we decline and even the Poles leave. How fking stupid is that!

You really are fixated on Boston, aren't you ?

Remind me again, when was the last time you stayed there ?

[AW111]

PRTVR said:

But I pointed out ships are made in a lot of EU countries, do you think Germany is a low cost area ? Just the other night there was a programme on ITV on building a large cruise ship in Italy You build things smarter, strategically I find it strange as an island we only have limited ship building capability, when we have to go to Korea to build our RN support ships something's wrong.

Maybe the Koreans can build ships that don't break down when the ocean is too warm.
They might even be able to build aircraft carriers that can launch aircraft, who knows?

[powerstroke]

PRTVR said:

s2art said:

Greg66 said:

I just don't see the small niche engineering firm that we excel at producing as in the same category as large shipyards. And I don't detect a mass desire to man factories at pay levels that will make us competitive with SE Asia.

Wait for the next generation of robots and 3D printers.

But I pointed out ships are made in a lot of EU countries, do you think Germany is a low cost area ? Just the other night there was a programme on ITV on building a large cruise ship in Italy You build things smarter, strategically I find it strange as an island we only have limited ship building capability, when we have to go to Korea to build our RN support ships something's wrong.

Germans had the benefit of post war investment in manufacturing ,most German companys buy from other german companys , (go onto a german industrial est most are making something go on one in the uk and its wholesalers and retail mostly )have engineers on their boards and don't take much notice of accountants
we have been building an economy on services , selling tat to each other and let accountants asset strip so this years figures look good , minimal long term investment in plant and machinery etc ...

[AC43]

PRTVR said:

AC43 said:

s2art said:

AC43 said:

Well I live in the area (London) that's surely most "hit" by immigration and I don't come across anyone moaning about it. Most immigrants come here to build a better life and work their nuts off, often grateful to have jobs that the locals can't/won't do. They build the economy they're not a drag on it.

But is London a special case in that there will be a higher proportion of skilled and 'elite' immigrants going there compared to other areas of the country?

I don't really think so. People come here to do jobs at all levels from street sweepers to surgeons. I just don't understand the negative sentiment. Although I suspect a lot of it is to do with people living in areas where the traditional industries no longer exist and wanting to blame someone - in this case the "urban elite", "liberals" and immigrants.

I think the theory goes is that if only those people didn't exist then the factories would magically reappear and it would be back to the good old days.

You just have to look at how unbalanced the economy is to see the problem, manufacturing has been allowed to nearly disappear, who was responsible for that ?

Take shipbuilding, ships are built in Norway,sweden Germany France Holland and Italy, but the UK next to nothing, in this country manual skills are looked down on,
What we have done is removed jobs from the economy that provided not only work but pride,I find it interesting that when the unemployed are talked about, nobody connect's the lack of manual jobs that provide work and pride.
The point about London liberals is correct I am from the northeast, Mandelson was MP for Hartlepool, there was major Job losses at the local steel rolling mill, his comments were we don't need those dirty jobs, roll on quite a few years and the Redcar steel plant closed down, a plant that had been there since the start of large scale steel production in the world, lord Heseltine made the same statement, dirt jobs, it's not about going back it's about understanding, I think Teresa May understands, time will tell.

I do get the industrial decline thing - I was brought up in a former industrial town in Scotland which suffered massively and still does.

It's a st situation.

I just don't think the response is necessarily the right one in that I can't see what a bunch of politicians can do to rectify the situation.

We've had nationaised and state subsidised industry in the past and that didn't work.

[PRTVR]

powerstroke said:

PRTVR said:

s2art said:

Greg66 said:

I just don't see the small niche engineering firm that we excel at producing as in the same category as large shipyards. And I don't detect a mass desire to man factories at pay levels that will make us competitive with SE Asia.

Wait for the next generation of robots and 3D printers.

But I pointed out ships are made in a lot of EU countries, do you think Germany is a low cost area ? Just the other night there was a programme on ITV on building a large cruise ship in Italy You build things smarter, strategically I find it strange as an island we only have limited ship building capability, when we have to go to Korea to build our RN support ships something's wrong.

Germans had the benefit of post war investment in manufacturing ,most German companys buy from other german companys , (go onto a german industrial est most are making something go on one in the uk and its wholesalers and retail mostly )have engineers on their boards and don't take much notice of accountants
we have been building an economy on services , selling tat to each other and let accountants asset strip so this years figures look good , minimal long term investment in plant and machinery etc ...

Totally agree, I actually think the government will be able to make some minor changes when we leave to improve the system, tax payers money spent in this country unless it is not possible, Police force driving British built cars, the disabled driver scheme to me appears strange, British tax payers some in car production paying for imported cars,i twill take some time but to me there is no alternative, as it is if we have problems in the financial industry we are screwed, not a good position to be in.

[catso]

PRTVR said:

Police force driving British built cars

You think? Surely there is no valid reason why this is not already happening?

My recollection of other EU states with car industries, e.g. Germany, France & Italy, is that the Police drive home produced cars.

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Media reports chaos and terror as refugees invade North Devon en masse and incur wrath of angry locals.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syrian-refugee...

You've gone quiet on posting any details on the Nissan deal.

This is related - scare stories about immigration are just that - nonsense for low graders to lap up. Once it is realised that is all it is, the country can stop bedwetting about that pesky fourth freedom and secure the deal that Nissan needs.

[PRTVR]

AW111 said:

PRTVR said:

But I pointed out ships are made in a lot of EU countries, do you think Germany is a low cost area ? Just the other night there was a programme on ITV on building a large cruise ship in Italy You build things smarter, strategically I find it strange as an island we only have limited ship building capability, when we have to go to Korea to build our RN support ships something's wrong.

Maybe the Koreans can build ships that don't break down when the ocean is too warm.
They might even be able to build aircraft carriers that can launch aircraft, who knows?

I don't think it was the people building the ships fault, but the people who specify their requirements who would have thought a ship would have to work in warm water? LOL, bloody aircraft carrier should have been cat and trap but they probably saved a couple of quid but limited us to VTOL aircraft.

[PRTVR]

catso said:

PRTVR said:

Police force driving British built cars

You think? Surely there is no valid reason why this is not already happening?

My recollection of other EU states with car industries, e.g. Germany, France & Italy, is that the Police drive home produced cars.

Yes but we follow the letter of the EU law the tender has to go to the cheapest bidder, a few years ago a stationary firm in the north east went to the wall because it lost the contract to the local health trust who went with a slightly cheaper French company, I remember just after the news was on TV I was on holiday and was talking to a French couple, he thought the British were mad and it would never happen in France, perhaps he was right.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Media reports chaos and terror as refugees invade North Devon en masse and incur wrath of angry locals.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syrian-refugee...

You've gone quiet on posting any details on the Nissan deal.

This is related - scare stories about immigration are just that - nonsense for low graders to lap up. Once it is realised that is all it is, the country can stop bedwetting about that pesky fourth freedom and secure the deal that Nissan needs.

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

I have answered your questions perfectly clearly, and the difference between a hard brexit scenario and a soft one, and how that changes the need for compensation.

What we know about the deal is gleaned mainly from Clarks BBC TV appearance - which if you are interested in the subject I'm sure you will have seen. It was on Marr show, easy to find.

The full details refuse to be revealed. What is not known is what guarantees exist if the UK fails to deliver a soft brexit for Nissan.

You should be able to understand all this, it is not difficult.

Only a low grader would struggle with it; prove to us all you are not one by grasping these simple ideas.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

I have answered your questions perfectly clearly, and the difference between a hard brexit scenario and a soft one, and how that changes the need for compensation.

What we know about the deal is gleaned mainly from Clarks BBC TV appearance - which if you are interested in the subject I'm sure you will have seen. It was on Marr show, easy to find.

The full details refuse to be revealed. What is not known is what guarantees exist if the UK fails to deliver a soft brexit for Nissan.

You should be able to understand all this, it is not difficult.

Only a low grader would struggle with it; prove to us all you are not one by grasping these simple ideas.

So what you are saying confirms what I said and we only know some vague assurances re training and staff and know nothing else.
Your blanket refusal to back up your claim or even mention it when it was pointed out your claims were illegal state aid, only confirms you as a bullst liar here. Simple as that.

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

I have answered your questions perfectly clearly, and the difference between a hard brexit scenario and a soft one, and how that changes the need for compensation.

What we know about the deal is gleaned mainly from Clarks BBC TV appearance - which if you are interested in the subject I'm sure you will have seen. It was on Marr show, easy to find.

The full details refuse to be revealed. What is not known is what guarantees exist if the UK fails to deliver a soft brexit for Nissan.

You should be able to understand all this, it is not difficult.

Only a low grader would struggle with it; prove to us all you are not one by grasping these simple ideas.

So what you are saying confirms what I said and we only know some vague assurances re training and staff and know nothing else.
Your blanket refusal to back up your claim or even mention it when it was pointed out your claims were illegal state aid, only confirms you as a bullst liar here. Simple as that.

Sorry, I won't take that.

I've not lied, I've presented my arguments which remain valid.

You are just throwing around insults as you don't seem able to follow them - you are a low grader AICMFP.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

I have answered your questions perfectly clearly, and the difference between a hard brexit scenario and a soft one, and how that changes the need for compensation.

What we know about the deal is gleaned mainly from Clarks BBC TV appearance - which if you are interested in the subject I'm sure you will have seen. It was on Marr show, easy to find.

The full details refuse to be revealed. What is not known is what guarantees exist if the UK fails to deliver a soft brexit for Nissan.

You should be able to understand all this, it is not difficult.

Only a low grader would struggle with it; prove to us all you are not one by grasping these simple ideas.

So what you are saying confirms what I said and we only know some vague assurances re training and staff and know nothing else.
Your blanket refusal to back up your claim or even mention it when it was pointed out your claims were illegal state aid, only confirms you as a bullst liar here. Simple as that.

Sorry, I won't take that.

I've not lied, I've presented my arguments which remain valid.

You are just throwing around insults as you don't seem able to follow them - you are a low grader AICMFP.

You are free to back up your claim you have some insight on the Nissan deal if you wish. You'd look an idiot doing so because we just don't know. I said it here many times but you insist on guessing and even told PH your claims were obviously true be the Nissan boss was smiling to the awaiting press outside Number 10. Your level of proof is somewhat different to mine.

The floor is yours if you want to back up your claim Nissan will be getting a per car compensation from HMG if facing tariffs. I said my understanding was this amounted to illegal state aid. I could be wrong, but then I wasn't the one who made the claim , that was you. So over to you.

PS. Your faux outrage at being insulted is funny given the amount of time you spend on the forum trying to wind people with your 'racist' shouting at any and every objection. You are even on the Ukip thread this morning complaining people aren''t taking your baiting and responding to you trying to wind people up. But now you've been insulted ? Not credible I'm afraid.

Edited by Deptford Draylons on Sunday 11th December 13:41

[230TE]

///ajd said:

Media reports chaos and terror as refugees invade North Devon en masse and incur wrath of angry locals.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/syrian-refugee...

Did you write that yourself? It's very much in your literary style. So many strawmen it should have a "Flammable" sticker on it.

[WinstonWolf]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

I have answered your questions perfectly clearly, and the difference between a hard brexit scenario and a soft one, and how that changes the need for compensation.

What we know about the deal is gleaned mainly from Clarks BBC TV appearance - which if you are interested in the subject I'm sure you will have seen. It was on Marr show, easy to find.

The full details refuse to be revealed. What is not known is what guarantees exist if the UK fails to deliver a soft brexit for Nissan.

You should be able to understand all this, it is not difficult.

Only a low grader would struggle with it; prove to us all you are not one by grasping these simple ideas.

So what you are saying confirms what I said and we only know some vague assurances re training and staff and know nothing else.
Your blanket refusal to back up your claim or even mention it when it was pointed out your claims were illegal state aid, only confirms you as a bullst liar here. Simple as that.

Sorry, I won't take that.

I've not lied, I've presented my arguments which remain valid.

You are just throwing around insults as you don't seem able to follow them - you are a low grader AICMFP.

"Your just throwing around insults" then throws insult

[Funkycoldribena]

WinstonWolf said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

You were asked a very simple question on what you claimed we knew about the Nissan deal. I just expected a link to a newspaper article or something as I hadn't read any details other than some assurances on training.
I also said I thought you made an incorrect claim when you said they might receive compensation on a per car basis if facing tariffs, something you also didn't respond to.

You're more interested in winding people up with your long-winded way of shouting racist. Your EU obsession and racist shouting on every related thread has become boring.

I have answered your questions perfectly clearly, and the difference between a hard brexit scenario and a soft one, and how that changes the need for compensation.

What we know about the deal is gleaned mainly from Clarks BBC TV appearance - which if you are interested in the subject I'm sure you will have seen. It was on Marr show, easy to find.

The full details refuse to be revealed. What is not known is what guarantees exist if the UK fails to deliver a soft brexit for Nissan.

You should be able to understand all this, it is not difficult.

Only a low grader would struggle with it; prove to us all you are not one by grasping these simple ideas.

So what you are saying confirms what I said and we only know some vague assurances re training and staff and know nothing else.
Your blanket refusal to back up your claim or even mention it when it was pointed out your claims were illegal state aid, only confirms you as a bullst liar here. Simple as that.

Sorry, I won't take that.

I've not lied, I've presented my arguments which remain valid.

You are just throwing around insults as you don't seem able to follow them - you are a low grader AICMFP.

"Your just throwing around insults" then throws insult

I'm sure I remember him saying that he wouldn't respond to anyone throwing insults not that long ago...

[///ajd]

Freedom to have more red tape.....?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/11/u...

[768]

///ajd said:

Freedom to have more red tape.....?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/11/u...

Says organisation backed by Anna Soubry, Nick Clegg, Chuka Umunna and Ed Miliband.

[///ajd]

768 said:

///ajd said:

Freedom to have more red tape.....?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/11/u...

Says organisation backed by Anna Soubry, Nick Clegg, Chuka Umunna and Ed Miliband.

We should be asking - do they have a valid concern/point?

And if they do, is it worth protecting?

It seems reasonably obvious to me that it is.