Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[don'tbesilly]

Funkycoldribena said:

Soubry and Clegg,now there's a hideous, despicable combination.
Amazing what lengths these vile people will go to overturn democracy.

Soubry is certainly representing her constituents, 54% voted leave,45% voted remain!

I'd imagine she's very popular in Broxtowe.........not.


Andrew Neil makes Clegg look a fool:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MeL3cSRz6w

[///ajd]

davepoth said:

Aside from those documents, we do retain a copy of the export declaration for all shipments to Turkey to discharge HMRC's requirement for proof of export.

I'm glad someone is following the regulations.

[KrissKross]

///ajd said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/notice-...

2.18

What are the penalties for failing to comply with export rules and regulations?
The following are examples of non-compliance that may lead to the imposition of Customs Civil Penalty. These penalties range from £250 to £1,000 or £2,500 depending on the type and severity of the contravention:

failing to place goods under the export procedure
failing to lodge an Export Declaration
failing to comply with the terms and conditions laid down in a simplified or local clearance procedure
failing to keep or produce the relevant documents relating to a traders business

Just as a test, next week try shipping something to any country you like on the planet, other than a few forms that you need to fill out correctly (or copy for future reference) your items will move seamlessly, the shipping company ie Fedex, UPS will also usually help you with the paperwork as it is in their own business interest to do so.

The issue is trying to find someone who wants to buy what you have to offer.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Thanks, so it is true then.

The format of our relationship with the EU on trade is negotiable - why would it not be?

We want a red white and blue brexit, remember?

Aim high, don't talk down our nations crack negotiation team.....

Says the person that told PH it would be better to vote remain and negotiate after having deliverd the EU a remain vote, and after Cameron had spent 2 years trying to get any kinda bone tossed his way to avert a leave vote.
I'm not sure you and your 'logic' should mock anything negotiation related.

[davepoth]

///ajd said:

davepoth said:

Aside from those documents, we do retain a copy of the export declaration for all shipments to Turkey to discharge HMRC's requirement for proof of export.

I'm glad someone is following the regulations.

It's quite OK for your freight forwarder to keep hold of your records, so long as copies can be easily obtained if HMRC ever ask for them. That's the way that a lot of companies work - HMRC do have a "common sense" approach to these things thankfully.

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

Says the person that told PH it would be better to vote remain and negotiate after having deliverd the EU a remain vote, and after Cameron had spent 2 years trying to get any kinda bone tossed his way to avert a leave vote.
I'm not sure you and your 'logic' should mock anything negotiation related.

It would still be better to remain by a country mile.

2nd best option if we have to leave is with "as good as possible" trade deal to protect our access to the Single Market - tariff free & with no extra paperwork if possible.

This is quite logical, but I realise the vote was not sadly to remain, so we have to look at what the 2nd best option can look like.

We should try and make that 2nd best option as good as possible, shouldn't we?

[230TE]

KrissKross said:

Just as a test, next week try shipping something to any country you like on the planet, other than a few forms that you need to fill out correctly (or copy for future reference) your items will move seamlessly, the shipping company ie Fedex, UPS will also usually help you with the paperwork as it is in their own business interest to do so.

The issue is trying to find someone who wants to buy what you have to offer.

I think most of the paperwork stuff to which ///ajd refers is properly the concern of shipping and freight forwarding companies. It's part of the service we pay them for. Foodstuffs are a bit unusual being covered by special CAP rules, but for most things five copies of the commercial invoice, plus another one for the filing cabinet, will do fine. Shipping rates to mainland Europe may increase a little as a result of leaving, but it's a highly competitive industry with low barriers to entry. I used to be FD of a company that sold big expensive machines all over the world, and export paperwork was never even on my radar as a hindrance to the business. The whole process was automated. Letters of credit for shipping to dodgy countries were about the only annoyance.

[don4l]

davepoth said:

don4l said:

May I enquire about the goods that you export?

I don't need to provide any special paperwork with anything that I export... apart from 5 signed copies of the invoice.

We do "ingredients for the food industry". That requires a certificate of free sale and a health certificate (they can be done annually), the aforementioned A.TR certificate to get preferential treatment of our goods when they arrive in Turkey (an EUR1 is used instead for certain agricultural products, coal, and steel), a certificate showing our internal test results, an invoice and a packing list (the packing list is down to customer preference in the main). We'd also provide a copy of the transport document (generally a CMR since it'll usually be roadfreight) if we organise the freight. Here's the EU guidance for it:

http://madb.europa.eu/madb/datasetPreviewIFpubli.h...

Aside from those documents, we do retain a copy of the export declaration for all shipments to Turkey to discharge HMRC's requirement for proof of export.

Thanks.

Are there similar requirements for domestic sales?

[KrissKross]

230TE said:

KrissKross said:

Just as a test, next week try shipping something to any country you like on the planet, other than a few forms that you need to fill out correctly (or copy for future reference) your items will move seamlessly, the shipping company ie Fedex, UPS will also usually help you with the paperwork as it is in their own business interest to do so.

The issue is trying to find someone who wants to buy what you have to offer.

I think most of the paperwork stuff to which ///ajd refers is properly the concern of shipping and freight forwarding companies. It's part of the service we pay them for. Foodstuffs are a bit unusual being covered by special CAP rules, but for most things five copies of the commercial invoice, plus another one for the filing cabinet, will do fine. Shipping rates to mainland Europe may increase a little as a result of leaving, but it's a highly competitive industry with low barriers to entry. I used to be FD of a company that sold big expensive machines all over the world, and export paperwork was never even on my radar as a hindrance to the business. The whole process was automated. Letters of credit for shipping to dodgy countries were about the only annoyance.

I agree completely, unless you are shipping food, drugs, chemicals etc its not a big deal.

What AJD and others refuse to accept is that trade is not done by the EU, its done by entrepreneurs selling something that others want and adding value. Its not complicated other than making it so for the sake of it.

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Says the person that told PH it would be better to vote remain and negotiate after having deliverd the EU a remain vote, and after Cameron had spent 2 years trying to get any kinda bone tossed his way to avert a leave vote.
I'm not sure you and your 'logic' should mock anything negotiation related.

It would still be better to remain by a country mile.

2nd best option if we have to leave is with "as good as possible" trade deal to protect our access to the Single Market - tariff free & with no extra paperwork if possible.

This is quite logical, but I realise the vote was not sadly to remain, so we have to look at what the 2nd best option can look like.

We should try and make that 2nd best option as good as possible, shouldn't we?

With the exception of your first sentence I don't think you'd get anyone disagreeing with that post ///ajd, 'access' to the single market is what Clark alluded to after May met Ghosn back in October,May/Fox/Davis/Johnson and others have all said similar since and before the 14th Oct.

The big question is how the EU responds to the "as good as possible" deal that the UK wants to negotiate, I rather suspect there will be at least one stumbling block.

Time will tell.

[loafer123]

I don't want to stay inside the Single Market, I want to be able to do external trade deals, set fisheries policies, set our own rules for immigration and so on.

I am willing to forego the tariffs that we would receive from EU countries under WTO rules in return for tariff free access for us to the Single Market and for them to ours, which is to the economic benefit of both us and the EU.

I would also like to include Passporting within that, but suspect that a simple confirmation that our regulations are sufficient under Mifid 2 would be more politically acceptable for them.

[Cobnapint]

Funkycoldribena said:

Soubry and Clegg, now there's a hideous, despicable combination.
Amazing what lengths these vile people will go to overturn democracy.

Don't forget the other 'result respecters' - Tim Farron, David Lammy, Paddy Pantsdown, Tony Blair and our friends in Scotland.

[AC43]

///ajd said:

Freedom to have more red tape.....?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/11/u...

All the uncertainty around Brexit has created even more regulatory burdens for the banks. The least bad version of events is that they will basically have two regulatory burdens going forward; (1) the ECB (because that's the cost of the entry ticket for continuing to transact many £billions of highly profitable and taxable business with the EU) and (2) the newly-resurgent and needless UK version because that's exactly what is bound to happen.

So what? Well it's just another albatross slung round the necks of FS, dragging the profit, taxes and jobs out of one of few things we're actually good at.

FFS.....

[davepoth]

don4l said:

Thanks.

Are there similar requirements for domestic sales?

Domestically we would just provide the test results and a delivery note - the invoice would follow on a bit later from our finance team.

[B'stard Child]

Funkycoldribena said:

Soubry and Clegg,now there's a hideous, despicable combination.
Amazing what lengths these vile people will go to keep their noses in the trough.

EFA

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

Says the person that told PH it would be better to vote remain and negotiate after having deliverd the EU a remain vote, and after Cameron had spent 2 years trying to get any kinda bone tossed his way to avert a leave vote.
I'm not sure you and your 'logic' should mock anything negotiation related.

It would still be better to remain by a country mile.

2nd best option if we have to leave is with "as good as possible" trade deal to protect our access to the Single Market - tariff free & with no extra paperwork if possible.

This is quite logical, but I realise the vote was not sadly to remain, so we have to look at what the 2nd best option can look like.

We should try and make that 2nd best option as good as possible, shouldn't we?

Depends on what you think people voted for in general. I'd say it was to be independent, away from the ECJ, ability to free trade and control EU immigration.
Your idea we stay in the SM as is means you'd fulfill none of those. You don't mind ignoring that but I and others to. The hard and soft brexit talk of Farron and co is the above under a silly name for people happy to delude themselves.

Edited by Deptford Draylons on Monday 12th December 22:59

[don4l]

I think that I have found this year's Christmas No 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI-RejP5fhM

[FiF]

It's behind a pay wall but EU negotiators are going to propose that after Brexit any EU citizens living in Britain should remain (snigger) under the jurisdiction of EU law. Maybe this is an add on as to why they want to offer EU citizenship to British subjects after Brexit. Clearly the UK must reject this, that is a red line for me and, I suspect, many others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/12/exclusi...

[768]

^
That's taking the piss.

[Disastrous]

don4l said:

I think that I have found this year's Christmas No 1.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI-RejP5fhM

Regardless of the content, that's just dreadfully executed.

It points to a much bigger concern that isolated from Europe, it becomes left to people that untalented to produce our culture

Though I did laugh at the unintended irony of the 'singer' performing in a cod-American accent and pronouncing it as "Briddish". I thought the little englanders would hate that!