Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[paulrockliffe]

I don't know why people keep bringing Nissan up. They clearly have two options, stay in the UK or move to France. They're not moving to France! One of the most efficient plants in the world becomes one of the least efficient and they have to pay hundreds of millions for the privilege. Never going to happen.

[anonymous-user]

KimJongHealthy said:

Overnight? No.

Over time? Most likely. Brits need cars, so will buy them anyway. Nissan can make those cars cheaper in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico or anywhere in the world.

You may need to think about that again.

On a very basic level of the pound stays were it is the cost of our labour has significantly reduced in relative terms.

And then if we go full hard brexit and add in low corporation tax and low regulatory burden and we become a completely different kettle of fish.

Not all of that is necessarily postive or negative.

[s2art]

KimJongHealthy said:

Overnight? No.

Over time? Most likely. Brits need cars, so will buy them anywhere. Nissan can make those cars cheaper in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico or anywhere in the world.

Laughably wrong. But keep it up, good entertainment.

[don4l]

Sway said:

Keep talking about "27 enormous economies, with us in the corner". It seems about the right level for your comprehension skills.

The UK represents 13% of the EU's GDP.

Our nett contribution is much higher.

[B'stard Child]

KimJongHealthy said:

sanf said:

powerstroke said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Nissan is building them in Britain for the duty-free access to the EU market.

Guess what's going to happen with Nissan factory when Britain leaves the duty-free common market?

we don't buy many cars here in the uk look round at all the worn out old heaps , Nah no market for cars apart from
across the channel japan, OZ ,NZ and south africa won't want any either or brazil india USA Canada etc no market for cars outside the EU
Yes our factories will be shut down over night

Financial Year 2015:
1 GERMANY 3,206,042
2 UNITED KINGDOM 2,633,503
3 FRANCE 1,917,226
4 ITALY 1,574,872
5 SPAIN 1,034,232
6 BELGIUM 501,066
7 NETHERLANDS 449,393

Overnight? No.

Over time? Most likely. Brits need cars, so will buy them anyway. Nissan can make those cars cheaper in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico or anywhere in the world.


Someone has mentioned the Commonwealth partnership. Will tomatoes imported all the way from Australia be cheaper than Spanish? No? I thought so. How many Nissan cars will you export to Australia? Not many, considering they can get them from Japan. What can you offer to Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Botswana that would make up for lost trade and knowledge exchange with European Union? Potatoes?

Keep going I'm learning lots from you today

1. Tomatoes are only grown in Australia and Spain (I grow them myself in my garden so they should do all right in other climates in Europe)

2. There are opportunities in Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Botswana - I was concerned that just Australia, New Zealand and the USA wasn't enough.

And I'm sure Nissan could make cars cheaper in Eastern Europe - not sure why they haven't already - perhaps Nissan knows that it's already got the Polish making them here seems a daft move all that moving cost for the plant and equipment and staff to go back to Poland.... I think some of them prefer our weather anyway!

[MTech535]

bmw535i said:

don4l said:

wc98 said:

don4l said:

Brexit apparently means "Brexit".

Who'd a thunk it?

don4l between your share advice post referendum and your prediction of what would happen in relation to the type of brexit , ie leaving single market, i think you should be renamed "mystic don". keep polishing that crystal ball !

You are too kind.

I still have no idea why people thought we'd stay in the single market.

Mind you, Jimboka is still adamant we won't be leaving

Whilst I don't want to take anything away from Don4l and his mystical powers, I agree with you, I am not sure why people are saying they are glad that they have some clarity - I cant see why anyone would have expected anything else from the government at this point - we are leaving the EU and want to get the best trade deal we can negotiate.

[wc98]

Sway said:

You could attribute it to that - although of course not a single Japanese car plant achieved the same... Must be the Poles they're missing out on.

Manufacturing (and service) efficiency is my trade, and I can absolutely assure you that your reasons for NS's efficiency is utter bks.

To be fair, I do agree it's a pity those Poles didn't move to Italy - after all, that one plant up north makes more cars a year than that famous carbuilding nation.

British Leyland was a basket case. Unipart, once separated, has gone from strength to strength - and even sells it's know how through a CI consultancy of it's own. JLR went through a rough patch, but are now going from strength to strength after gaining (non Japanese or Polish) investment.

You're making lots of points, but with clearly very little understanding of the rationales behind them. Which is unfortunate, as virtually every one is incorrect.

Keep talking about "27 enormous economies, with us in the corner". It seems about the right level for your comprehension skills.

i have noticed a few of the more recent posters or posters that have been non posting members for longer appear not to be aware of certain members specialist knowledge. to be fair the result is usually quite entertaining, so not always a bad thing.

[sanf]

B'stard Child said:

KimJongHealthy said:

sanf said:

powerstroke said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Nissan is building them in Britain for the duty-free access to the EU market.

Guess what's going to happen with Nissan factory when Britain leaves the duty-free common market?

we don't buy many cars here in the uk look round at all the worn out old heaps , Nah no market for cars apart from
across the channel japan, OZ ,NZ and south africa won't want any either or brazil india USA Canada etc no market for cars outside the EU
Yes our factories will be shut down over night

Financial Year 2015:
1 GERMANY 3,206,042
2 UNITED KINGDOM 2,633,503
3 FRANCE 1,917,226
4 ITALY 1,574,872
5 SPAIN 1,034,232
6 BELGIUM 501,066
7 NETHERLANDS 449,393

Overnight? No.

Over time? Most likely. Brits need cars, so will buy them anyway. Nissan can make those cars cheaper in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico or anywhere in the world.


Someone has mentioned the Commonwealth partnership. Will tomatoes imported all the way from Australia be cheaper than Spanish? No? I thought so. How many Nissan cars will you export to Australia? Not many, considering they can get them from Japan. What can you offer to Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Botswana that would make up for lost trade and knowledge exchange with European Union? Potatoes?

Keep going I'm learning lots from you today

1. Tomatoes are only grown in Australia and Spain (I grow them myself in my garden so they should do all right in other climates in Europe)

2. There are opportunities in Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Botswana - I was concerned that just Australia, New Zealand and the USA wasn't enough.

And I'm sure Nissan could make cars cheaper in Eastern Europe - not sure why they haven't already - perhaps Nissan knows that it's already got the Polish making them here seems a daft move all that moving cost for the plant and equipment and staff to go back to Poland.... I think some of them prefer our weather anyway!

Sorry more stats added.....submitted way to quickly!!

[Sway]

KimJongHealthy said:

sanf said:

powerstroke said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Nissan is building them in Britain for the duty-free access to the EU market.

Guess what's going to happen with Nissan factory when Britain leaves the duty-free common market?

we don't buy many cars here in the uk look round at all the worn out old heaps , Nah no market for cars apart from
across the channel japan, OZ ,NZ and south africa won't want any either or brazil india USA Canada etc no market for cars outside the EU
Yes our factories will be shut down over night

Financial Year 2015:
1 GERMANY 3,206,042
2 UNITED KINGDOM 2,633,503
3 FRANCE 1,917,226
4 ITALY 1,574,872
5 SPAIN 1,034,232
6 BELGIUM 501,066
7 NETHERLANDS 449,393

Overnight? No.

Over time? Most likely. Brits need cars, so will buy them anyway. Nissan can make those cars cheaper in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico or anywhere in the world.


Someone has mentioned the Commonwealth partnership. Will tomatoes imported all the way from Australia be cheaper than Spanish? No? I thought so. How many Nissan cars will you export to Australia? Not many, considering they can get them from Japan. What can you offer to Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Botswana that would make up for lost trade and knowledge exchange with European Union? Potatoes?

If Nissan could make cars cheaper anywhere else (especially the rest of the EU), then why have they, at every single opportunity, increased production at Sunderland? Oh that's right, because your assertion is bks.

Tomatoes (guess where I've plied my trade, including winning a UK Best Factory Award for Efficiency Improvements?) - any idea what the import tariff is into the EU? Double digit percentages, in contravention of WTO guidelines. So yes, comparing WTO MFN tariffs to te current protectionist regime, it is around 10% cheaper to buy and transport them from Australia compared to today. A peer reviewed paper showed an average reduction in costs of living moving to WTO MFN primarily due to the fking appalling protectionist tariffs placed on that most basic of needs - food.

Oh, and lastly, yes Australia will buy Nissans from Sunderland. They currently do. For that matter, despite Nissan having massive manufacturing presence in Japan, so does Japan. Even with all that shipping it's still cheaper to make cars in the UK and ship them to Japan instead of making them there.

As you can probably tell, there is a word that springs to mind about your comments on this thread today - I'll demonstrate my love of the continent by attempting to use my French skills - I believe they would call it bolleaux...

[powerstroke]

KimJongHealthy said:

sanf said:

powerstroke said:

KimJongHealthy said:

Nissan is building them in Britain for the duty-free access to the EU market.

Guess what's going to happen with Nissan factory when Britain leaves the duty-free common market?

we don't buy many cars here in the uk look round at all the worn out old heaps , Nah no market for cars apart from
across the channel japan, OZ ,NZ and south africa won't want any either or brazil india USA Canada etc no market for cars outside the EU
Yes our factories will be shut down over night

Financial Year 2015:
1 GERMANY 3,206,042
2 UNITED KINGDOM 2,633,503
3 FRANCE 1,917,226
4 ITALY 1,574,872
5 SPAIN 1,034,232
6 BELGIUM 501,066
7 NETHERLANDS 449,393

Overnight? No.

Over time? Most likely. Brits need cars, so will buy them anyway. Nissan can make those cars cheaper in Eastern Europe, Spain, Mexico or anywhere in the world.


Someone has mentioned the Commonwealth partnership. Will tomatoes imported all the way from Australia be cheaper than Spanish? No? I thought so. How many Nissan cars will you export to Australia? Not many, considering they can get them from Japan. What can you offer to Nigeria, Sierra Leone and Botswana that would make up for lost trade and knowledge exchange with European Union? Potatoes?

So they make cars cheaper in europe or mexico where do they then sell them ???
and why are you assuming we won't do any trade with Europe unless you are thick as mince you would know there is a large trade imbalance
Just one question why do you people love the EU so much what is the attraction ???

[B'stard Child]

powerstroke said:

So they make cars cheaper in europe or mexico where do they then sell them ???
and why are you assuming we won't do any trade with Europe unless you are thick as mince you would know there is a large trade imbalance
Just one question why do you people love the EU so much what is the attraction ???

Because - Stronger together*

Unable to stand on their own two feet - #needszimmer

* On that basis I would have expected bulk of Remainers to be elderly - go figure!!!

[powerstroke]

paulrockliffe said:

I don't know why people keep bringing Nissan up. They clearly have two options, stay in the UK or move to France. They're not moving to France! One of the most efficient plants in the world becomes one of the least efficient and they have to pay hundreds of millions for the privilege. Never going to happen.

Because Remainers on the whole are narrow minded and think if they say something enough it will be true ,

[powerstroke]

B'stard Child said:

powerstroke said:

So they make cars cheaper in europe or mexico where do they then sell them ???
and why are you assuming we won't do any trade with Europe unless you are thick as mince you would know there is a large trade imbalance
Just one question why do you people love the EU so much what is the attraction ???

Because - Stronger together*

Unable to stand on their own two feet - #needszimmer

* On that basis I would have expected bulk of Remainers to be elderly - go figure!!!

I think you will find most of the retainers still live at home maybe they think when their parents pass the EU will
take over and Mollycoddle them????

[B'stard Child]

powerstroke said:

B'stard Child said:

powerstroke said:

So they make cars cheaper in europe or mexico where do they then sell them ???
and why are you assuming we won't do any trade with Europe unless you are thick as mince you would know there is a large trade imbalance
Just one question why do you people love the EU so much what is the attraction ???

Because - Stronger together*

Unable to stand on their own two feet - #needszimmer

* On that basis I would have expected bulk of Remainers to be elderly - go figure!!!

I think you will find most of the retainers still live at home maybe they think when their parents pass the EU will
take over and Mollycoddle them????

Not that fecking bunch that didn't vote because "Glastonbury" clashed with that stupid voting thing!!!

[jjlynn27]

Sway said:

If Nissan could make cars cheaper anywhere else (especially the rest of the EU), then why have they, at every single opportunity, increased production at Sunderland? Oh that's right, because your assertion is bks.

Tomatoes (guess where I've plied my trade, including winning a UK Best Factory Award for Efficiency Improvements?) - any idea what the import tariff is into the EU? Double digit percentages, in contravention of WTO guidelines. So yes, comparing WTO MFN tariffs to te current protectionist regime, it is around 10% cheaper to buy and transport them from Australia compared to today. A peer reviewed paper showed an average reduction in costs of living moving to WTO MFN primarily due to the fking appalling protectionist tariffs placed on that most basic of needs - food.

Oh, and lastly, yes Australia will buy Nissans from Sunderland. They currently do. For that matter, despite Nissan having massive manufacturing presence in Japan, so does Japan. Even with all that shipping it's still cheaper to make cars in the UK and ship them to Japan instead of making them there.

As you can probably tell, there is a word that springs to mind about your comments on this thread today - I'll demonstrate my love of the continent by attempting to use my French skills - I believe they would call it bolleaux...

The genius that could reduce NHS budget by '30-50% without affecting service' telling someone about 'bolleaux'.

'my trade'

[Boosted LS1]

So much talk on this thread. We're leaving, properly so lets get behind the government for a great deal instead of listening to that liberal snail of of a politician or that comunist Corbyn.

Th vote was won, it was an 'out' vote. Job done, lets get on with it I can't wait. It'll be great if the remoaners don't keep dragging us back. Shortsighted fkers that they are.

[Elysium]

MTech535 said:

Whilst I don't want to take anything away from Don4l and his mystical powers, I agree with you, I am not sure why people are saying they are glad that they have some clarity - I cant see why anyone would have expected anything else from the government at this point - we are leaving the EU and want to get the best trade deal we can negotiate.

Looking at this logically there are two possibilities:

1. You and Don4l have some special and unique insight
2. The situation is not as simple as you believe it to be

I think it is the latter. The issue in respect of the Single Market is clouded in semantics. It is obvious that we must leave the Single Market as currently defined as it requires adoption of the four freedoms.

The clarity we now have relates to May's ambition for a 'tweaked' version of the Single Market. Like the Norway model that was proposed by many leave campaigners pre-referendum.

We now know that this is not part of the plan as any bespoke deal must not include significant payments to the EU and we are to refuse to submit to EU courts. That brings clarity that was previously missing.

Overall, this is a positive move because:

1. Our negotiating position with the EU is stronger.
2. The markets and business get to react early to the 'problem'. Lack of single market access can be priced in early and calmly. A 'dry run' for the real thing.
3. Market sentiment will no longer lurch to and fro depending on the mixed signals from Govt.

I don't agree with her approach, but I absolutely welcome this clarity and the signs are that the markets like it as well.

[Sway]

jjlynn27 said:

The genius that could reduce NHS budget by '30-50% without affecting service' telling someone about 'bolleaux'.

'my trade'

If you remember, and if necessary I'll pull up the quote, I said that I couldn't do that. But that it was possible.

Indeed, many of the comments I made about failure demand reduction and systems thinking being necessary are being raised on the 'nurses say nhs is fked' thread.

Don't worry, it's like Kim Jong Healthy thinking that UK car manufacturing is still operating like its the 70s, except it's a whole industry that thinks that it's unique and special enough that principles applied across dozens of sectors (who've then seen those sorts of benefits) can't be applied to it.

Now, fancy trying to refute my post on this thread? Or just going to stick to one ad hominem dragged up from a post months ago on a completely different topic?

You have seen the 'debate pyramid', or shall I bring that up again?

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

Looking at this logically there are two possibilities:

1. You and Don4l have some special and unique insight
2. The situation is not as simple as you believe it to be

I think it is the latter. The issue in respect of the Single Market is clouded in semantics. It is obvious that we must leave the Single Market as currently defined as it requires adoption of the four freedoms.

The clarity we now have relates to May's ambition for a 'tweaked' version of the Single Market. Like the Norway model that was proposed by many leave campaigners pre-referendum.

We now know that this is not part of the plan as any bespoke deal must not include significant payments to the EU and we are to refuse to submit to EU courts. That brings clarity that was previously missing.

Overall, this is a positive move because:

1. Our negotiating position with the EU is stronger.
2. The markets and business get to react early to the 'problem'. Lack of single market access can be priced in early and calmly. A 'dry run' for the real thing.
3. Market sentiment will no longer lurch to and fro depending on the mixed signals from Govt.

I don't agree with her approach, but I absolutely welcome this clarity and the signs are that the markets like it as well.

I knew you'd see sense and get on board in the end

I wonder where all the other deniers and abstainers have sloped off to.

[minimoog]

bmw535i said:

I wonder where all the other deniers and abstainers have sloped off to.

We've left you all to powerstroke each other off.