Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[anonymous-user]

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?

Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

This has always been the case. Some of us have been saying all along that a bad deal is worse than no deal and we will leave regardless, but the remain mob have kept up their relentless tirade about campaigning blah blah blah blah blah.

Nothing is going to change - people must accept we're going to leave come what may. If they choose not to, they're going to be very disappointed.

I'm very confused about how people haven't been able to understand that Brexit means Brexit. It's really that simple.

[b2hbm]

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?
Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

We've had 6 months of statements from various EU leaders stating that the UK cannot cherry pick a deal, membership of the SM must include FoM for people, whatever deal the UK gets must show that membership is better, hard negotiating, etc.

So now TM's latest speech says "ok, we get that". She went on to outline what everyone who has followed events has been expecting; a trade deal and mutually beneficial co-operation (without membership) for the future. Flexible in some areas, hard lines in others. And as you would expect in any negotiation she's saying that if we can't come to an agreeable deal, we'll just walk away.

Which is exactly how you would react when buying a new house, car or in any business deal. She does have some credibility on that stance because the EU trade is now lower than our RoW trading (and shrinking). Which isn't saying the EU need us more than we need them, it's simply stating that the EU isn't the be-all and end-all of world trade. When the EU says "you can't manage without us", she can show how >50% trade goes to countries without EU membership.

To go back the thread title, I'm coming round to the idea that there's no way we will U-turn. Even Corbyn is now saying that official Labour policy will be to back the A50 vote when it occurs, it's only the minorities who are still arguing about it. The world stage is set for the UK to leave the EU.

[FiF]

Precisely and Tusk was correct in describing May's speech as Churchillian. It was in the same slant as Winston, we want to be a friend and supporter of the project, we wish it no harm, but not actually a full member as we have a lot of interests elsewhere.

[Elysium]

bmw535i said:

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?

Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

This has always been the case. Some of us have been saying all along that a bad deal is worse than no deal and we will leave regardless, but the remain mob have kept up their relentless tirade about campaigning blah blah blah blah blah.

Nothing is going to change - people must accept we're going to leave come what may. If they choose not to, they're going to be very disappointed.

I'm very confused about how people haven't been able to understand that Brexit means Brexit. It's really that simple.

Leaving the EU is simple. Establishing the basis of a successful future trading partnership is not. You are fixating on the first part, whilst everybody else has moved on.

[blindswelledrat]

768 said:

blindswelledrat said:

Jesus. I dont think I can take much more of this.
If you take 100% of something and take away 6% what are you left with?
Try it this way, as percentages seem to confuse you.

Erika has 100 sweets.
Erika loses 6 sweets.
How many sweets are left?

She's losing 12.5 (after the rebate), not 6.

So there won't be 94 left.

Sooooo which part of that table proves that point exactly? I am looking forward to this.
Can't you just accept that you are st at maths and don't really understand stuff?

[blindswelledrat]

digimeistter said:

I love the way you bluster and deride other posters opinions who have presented links and research, yet you have failed to back anything up at all!

Show me where this has happened?
I love the way you bluster and deride other posters and fail to back anything up at all

[768]

blindswelledrat said:

768 said:

blindswelledrat said:

Jesus. I dont think I can take much more of this.
If you take 100% of something and take away 6% what are you left with?
Try it this way, as percentages seem to confuse you.

Erika has 100 sweets.
Erika loses 6 sweets.
How many sweets are left?

She's losing 12.5 (after the rebate), not 6.

So there won't be 94 left.

Sooooo which part of that table proves that point exactly? I am looking forward to this.
Can't you just accept that you are st at maths and don't really understand stuff?

You don't have to do any maths to read 12.5% out of that document.

If you want a maths competition, that's fine, we can compare where your degree came from with mine and everyone can point and laugh at me, I don't care. Otherwise, perhaps you could just take a moment to point out from your tower where the EU's own figure, or my interpretation of it, is incorrect?

Or are you just going to drag it out with more bluff and bluster?

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

[

Mrr T said:

The UK is already commiteed to pay its share of those commitments.

I was thinking about this earlier...I wonder how "committed" we really are in extremis. Projects get cancelled all the time. It would seem sensible for someone to do some due diligence on each of them and if we're to get negligible value, bin it.

If the EU were genuinely freezing UK research bodies out of projects in the wake of the vote (as an example), maybe a precedent is out there.

Once again can I direct you to R North and Eureferendum.com.

The government should know this figure since the annual EU budget is broken down into annual funding and committed longer term projects. The commented funding may not be for the life time of the project but for some years of it.

These are treaty commitments so they are not negotiable. The only negotiation will be about whether we pay a lump sum when we leave or by instalments.

As for the UK not funding longer term projects in the UK that is perfectly reason, we are leaving and they do not want to commit spending funds after brexit.

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

Once again can I direct you to R North and Eureferendum.com.

The government should know this figure since the annual EU budget is broken down into annual funding and committed longer term projects. The commented funding may not be for the life time of the project but for some years of it.

These are treaty commitments so they are not negotiable. The only negotiation will be about whether we pay a lump sum when we leave or by instalments.

As for the UK not funding longer term projects in the UK that is perfectly reason, we are leaving and they do not want to commit spending funds after brexit.

You can, but as you know I'm a bit sceptical of some of his reasoning

Commitments change all the time. And other states often do not play by the rules either. If pushed, I see no reason why we couldn't do the same.

[Murph7355]

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?

Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

Have you been living on the moon for the last 6-8mths?

Yes, no matter what the situation we leave the EU. The clue was the question on the referendum slip people voted on.

A good, bad or indifferent deal are all in the context of us no longer being EU members. People assessed whether it defied their own sense of logic in the run up to the vote and committed to it when voting. Those who voted Remain tend not to be able to see the logic of those who voted Leave and vice versa (or worse they profess to understand and then start name calling to justify their choice ). Exactly the same would have happened has the vote gone the other way.

[blindswelledrat]

768 said:

blindswelledrat said:

768 said:

blindswelledrat said:

Jesus. I dont think I can take much more of this.
If you take 100% of something and take away 6% what are you left with?
Try it this way, as percentages seem to confuse you.

Erika has 100 sweets.
Erika loses 6 sweets.
How many sweets are left?

She's losing 12.5 (after the rebate), not 6.

So there won't be 94 left.

Sooooo which part of that table proves that point exactly? I am looking forward to this.
Can't you just accept that you are st at maths and don't really understand stuff?

You don't have to do any maths to read 12.5% out of that document.
?

Just answer the question. You say that losing the UKs net contribution reduces the EU budget by 12.5% and that the link proves that. Just refer us to the part of that document that proves this as to my inexpert eye there is nothing.

Edited by blindswelledrat on Friday 20th January 11:28

[blindswelledrat]

768 said:

If you want a maths competition,

THis is like the ultimate nerds version of challenging someone to a fight on the internet.

[Disastrous]

bmw535i said:

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?

Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

This has always been the case. Some of us have been saying all along that a bad deal is worse than no deal and we will leave regardless, but the remain mob have kept up their relentless tirade about campaigning blah blah blah blah blah.

Nothing is going to change - people must accept we're going to leave come what may. If they choose not to, they're going to be very disappointed.

I'm very confused about how people haven't been able to understand that Brexit means Brexit. It's really that simple.

Why on earth would you not want a good deal for the U.K.?

Moron.

[p1stonhead]

Disastrous said:

bmw535i said:

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?

Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

This has always been the case. Some of us have been saying all along that a bad deal is worse than no deal because we are idiots and we will leave regardless, but the remain mob have kept up their relentless tirade about campaigning blah blah blah blah blah.

Nothing is going to change - people must accept we're going to leave come what may. If they choose not to, they're going to be very disappointed.

I'm very confused about how people haven't been able to understand that Brexit means Brexit. It's really that simple/fking stupid.

Why on earth would you not want a good deal for the U.K.?

Moron.

ETA

[Dr Jekyll]

Disastrous said:

bmw535i said:

Sump said:

Is it me or has the general vibe over the last couple of weeks been..no matter what the situation, no matter how bad of a deal it is or how good of a deal it is, no matter if it's the right move or wrong move, we will simply leave the EU?

Does this not defy some sort of sensible logic

This has always been the case. Some of us have been saying all along that a bad deal is worse than no deal and we will leave regardless, but the remain mob have kept up their relentless tirade about campaigning blah blah blah blah blah.

Nothing is going to change - people must accept we're going to leave come what may. If they choose not to, they're going to be very disappointed.

I'm very confused about how people haven't been able to understand that Brexit means Brexit. It's really that simple.

Why on earth would you not want a good deal for the U.K.?

Moron.

Nobody is saying we don't want a good deal. Just that a bad deal is worse than no deal. You don't go into a negotiation on the basis that you are determined to deal no matter what and will never walk away.

[Disastrous]

Dr Jekyll said:

Nobody is saying we don't want a good deal. Just that a bad deal is worse than no deal. You don't go into a negotiation on the basis that you are determined to deal no matter what and will never walk away.

Being happy with a bad deal is the same as being determined to deal no matter what.

[Murph7355]

p1stonhead said:

Disastrous said:

Why on earth would you not want a good deal for the U.K.?

Moron.

ETA

You might both want to look in the mirror

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

Mrr T said:

Once again can I direct you to R North and Eureferendum.com.

The government should know this figure since the annual EU budget is broken down into annual funding and committed longer term projects. The commented funding may not be for the life time of the project but for some years of it.

These are treaty commitments so they are not negotiable. The only negotiation will be about whether we pay a lump sum when we leave or by instalments.

As for the UK not funding longer term projects in the UK that is perfectly reason, we are leaving and they do not want to commit spending funds after brexit.

You can, but as you know I'm a bit sceptical of some of his reasoning

Commitments change all the time. And other states often do not play by the rules either. If pushed, I see no reason why we couldn't do the same.

As you wish but he is better than 100% of the MSM.

Interesting today he highlights the Malta PM has said the commitment could be €60bn.

Are you suggesting we ignore our treaty obligations. If you are then you can forget signing new trade treaties

Edited by Mrr T on Friday 20th January 13:07

[anonymous-user]

Disastrous said:

Why on earth would you not want a good deal for the U.K.?

Moron.

Where have I said I don't?

Dick

[anonymous-user]

Disastrous said:

Dr Jekyll said:

Nobody is saying we don't want a good deal. Just that a bad deal is worse than no deal. You don't go into a negotiation on the basis that you are determined to deal no matter what and will never walk away.

Being happy with a bad deal is the same as being determined to deal no matter what.

What??

You miss the point as usual.

Nobody is going to be happy with a bad deal, which is why there won't be a deal at all if we get offered a bad one.