Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[London424]

Mrr T said:

///ajd said:

Mrr T said:

p1stonhead said:

Burwood said:

Freedom of movement is a red line. I expect we would be prepared to pay something but it won't be of the magnitude we currently do-nothing like it. Even if we did it wouldn't bother me. The EU can posture all they want. A deal will get done even though they will try and screw us initially

They possibly look like they are going to try if the below article comes to fruition.

'No deals with anyone else until we are out after 2 years. Try and you won't get a deal with the EU'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/f...

I note no special deal for the City of London. I through team leave promised they need us more than we needed them.

Based on the list I think we may well be very screwed.

How much do we need to set the special brexit tax, 6p in the £ suit everyone?

Is that how you read it? I thought it only implied a city deal might be conditional?

"there will be no special deal for the City of London “providing UK-based undertakings preferential access to the single market and, or the customs union”."

Seems clear to me.

We should probably just give up now I guess...not even bother having discussions.

[///ajd]

Mrr T said:

///ajd said:

Mrr T said:

p1stonhead said:

Burwood said:

Freedom of movement is a red line. I expect we would be prepared to pay something but it won't be of the magnitude we currently do-nothing like it. Even if we did it wouldn't bother me. The EU can posture all they want. A deal will get done even though they will try and screw us initially

They possibly look like they are going to try if the below article comes to fruition.

'No deals with anyone else until we are out after 2 years. Try and you won't get a deal with the EU'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/f...

I note no special deal for the City of London. I through team leave promised they need us more than we needed them.

Based on the list I think we may well be very screwed.

How much do we need to set the special brexit tax, 6p in the £ suit everyone?

Is that how you read it? I thought it only implied a city deal might be conditional?

"there will be no special deal for the City of London “providing UK-based undertakings preferential access to the single market and, or the customs union”."

Seems clear to me.

Mmm. I quoted that earlier but wasn't sure if the guardian summary had spun it slightly.

Is that really an EU red line for e.g. passporting them? Have they been this clear before? I always assumed it was negotiable.

[Wobbegong]

Fastdruid said:

LasseV said:

Fastdruid said:

From http://peterjnorth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/leaving-...

Disclaimer: Most of his stuff seems to have a fairly high "leave" bias but he doesn't seem to shy away from sticking the boot in the brexiteers either.

Peter North. LOL

I certainly wouldn't advise doing a video search on that name!

Better to search for Matt Ramsey

[Mrr T]

London424 said:

Mrr T said:

///ajd said:

Mrr T said:

p1stonhead said:

Burwood said:

Freedom of movement is a red line. I expect we would be prepared to pay something but it won't be of the magnitude we currently do-nothing like it. Even if we did it wouldn't bother me. The EU can posture all they want. A deal will get done even though they will try and screw us initially

They possibly look like they are going to try if the below article comes to fruition.

'No deals with anyone else until we are out after 2 years. Try and you won't get a deal with the EU'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/f...

I note no special deal for the City of London. I through team leave promised they need us more than we needed them.

Based on the list I think we may well be very screwed.

How much do we need to set the special brexit tax, 6p in the £ suit everyone?

Is that how you read it? I thought it only implied a city deal might be conditional?

"there will be no special deal for the City of London “providing UK-based undertakings preferential access to the single market and, or the customs union”."

Seems clear to me.

We should probably just give up now I guess...not even bother having discussions.

Did I say that?

As I have said repeatedly the UK brings 2 thing to the negotiations, money and a trade deficit with mainly Germany.

The EU brings the possibility of doing major harm to the UK economy.

Suddenly the EFTA/EEA option even with FOML looks a good option.

[London424]

Mrr T said:

London424 said:

Mrr T said:

///ajd said:

Mrr T said:

p1stonhead said:

Burwood said:

Freedom of movement is a red line. I expect we would be prepared to pay something but it won't be of the magnitude we currently do-nothing like it. Even if we did it wouldn't bother me. The EU can posture all they want. A deal will get done even though they will try and screw us initially

They possibly look like they are going to try if the below article comes to fruition.

'No deals with anyone else until we are out after 2 years. Try and you won't get a deal with the EU'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/f...

I note no special deal for the City of London. I through team leave promised they need us more than we needed them.

Based on the list I think we may well be very screwed.

How much do we need to set the special brexit tax, 6p in the £ suit everyone?

Is that how you read it? I thought it only implied a city deal might be conditional?

"there will be no special deal for the City of London “providing UK-based undertakings preferential access to the single market and, or the customs union”."

Seems clear to me.

We should probably just give up now I guess...not even bother having discussions.

Did I say that?

As I have said repeatedly the UK brings 2 thing to the negotiations, money and a trade deficit with mainly Germany.

The EU brings the possibility of doing major harm to the UK economy.

Suddenly the EFTA/EEA option even with FOML looks a good option.

Your starting point is always that what the EU says is gospel. They can set out their list of stuff, but it doesn't mean the UK have to agree to it. That's the whole point of the discussions/negotiations.

[Mrr T]

London424 said:

Mrr T said:

London424 said:

Mrr T said:

///ajd said:

Mrr T said:

p1stonhead said:

Burwood said:

Freedom of movement is a red line. I expect we would be prepared to pay something but it won't be of the magnitude we currently do-nothing like it. Even if we did it wouldn't bother me. The EU can posture all they want. A deal will get done even though they will try and screw us initially

They possibly look like they are going to try if the below article comes to fruition.

'No deals with anyone else until we are out after 2 years. Try and you won't get a deal with the EU'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/f...

I note no special deal for the City of London. I through team leave promised they need us more than we needed them.

Based on the list I think we may well be very screwed.

How much do we need to set the special brexit tax, 6p in the £ suit everyone?

Is that how you read it? I thought it only implied a city deal might be conditional?

"there will be no special deal for the City of London “providing UK-based undertakings preferential access to the single market and, or the customs union”."

Seems clear to me.

We should probably just give up now I guess...not even bother having discussions.

Did I say that?

As I have said repeatedly the UK brings 2 thing to the negotiations, money and a trade deficit with mainly Germany.

The EU brings the possibility of doing major harm to the UK economy.

Suddenly the EFTA/EEA option even with FOML looks a good option.

Your starting point is always that what the EU says is gospel. They can set out their list of stuff, but it doesn't mean the UK have to agree to it. That's the whole point of the discussions/negotiations.

Not sure you get this brexit idea. If the EU says we cannot have something, such a passporting rights, the UK cannot say we do not agree. The rights of access to the EU markets are at the behest of the EU. The rights of access to the UK market, and money are our only negotiating levers.

[johnxjsc1985]

Mrr T said:

Not sure you get this brexit idea. If the EU says we cannot have something, such a passporting rights, the UK cannot say we do not agree. The rights of access to the EU markets are at the behest of the EU. The rights of access to the UK market, and money are our only negotiating levers.

We have a trade deficit with the EU and some £12 billion deficit in the EU's favour so we have plenty to discuss and to deal with. The German Car Unions have already started to put pressure on Merkel.

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

...

Suddenly the EFTA/EEA option even with FOML looks a good option.

"Suddenly"?

You've been dripping on about that for nearly a year

Let's see. Look at the language in this "Leaked Memo". So open it's meaningless.

[Mrr T]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Mrr T said:

Not sure you get this brexit idea. If the EU says we cannot have something, such a passporting rights, the UK cannot say we do not agree. The rights of access to the EU markets are at the behest of the EU. The rights of access to the UK market, and money are our only negotiating levers.

We have a trade deficit with the EU and some £12 billion deficit in the EU's favour so we have plenty to discuss and to deal with. The German Car Unions have already started to put pressure on Merkel.

I think you will find the trade deficit is about £60bn. Of that £25bn is with Germany.

So, I say again, we bring to the table 2 things a large trade deficit with German and money.

[p1stonhead]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Mrr T said:

Not sure you get this brexit idea. If the EU says we cannot have something, such a passporting rights, the UK cannot say we do not agree. The rights of access to the EU markets are at the behest of the EU. The rights of access to the UK market, and money are our only negotiating levers.

We have a trade deficit with the EU and some £12 billion deficit in the EU's favour so we have plenty to discuss and to deal with. The German Car Unions have already started to put pressure on Merkel.

But Merkel has already said the EU will come first above any car makers potentially conflicting interests. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/785168/Ange...

[johnxjsc1985]

Mrr T said:

I think you will find the trade deficit is about £60bn. Of that £25bn is with Germany.

So, I say again, we bring to the table 2 things a large trade deficit with German and money.

The EU budget deficit was quoted to be £12million adding the trade deficit makes our position even stronger as they are now going to have to find the money to make up the shortfall. So again a good place to start.

[skahigh]

Mrr T said:

I think you will find the trade deficit is about £60bn. Of that £25bn is with Germany.

So, I say again, we bring to the table 2 things a large trade deficit with German and money.

The whole thing is about money though isn't it?

Trade deficit is really just another way of saying money.

[///ajd]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Mrr T said:

Not sure you get this brexit idea. If the EU says we cannot have something, such a passporting rights, the UK cannot say we do not agree. The rights of access to the EU markets are at the behest of the EU. The rights of access to the UK market, and money are our only negotiating levers.

We have a trade deficit with the EU and some £12 billion deficit in the EU's favour so we have plenty to discuss and to deal with. The German Car Unions have already started to put pressure on Merkel.

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref. to mocking derision.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/785168/Ange...

[Burwood]

Mrr T said:

p1stonhead said:

Burwood said:

Freedom of movement is a red line. I expect we would be prepared to pay something but it won't be of the magnitude we currently do-nothing like it. Even if we did it wouldn't bother me. The EU can posture all they want. A deal will get done even though they will try and screw us initially

They possibly look like they are going to try if the below article comes to fruition.

'No deals with anyone else until we are out after 2 years. Try and you won't get a deal with the EU'

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/29/f...

I note no special deal for the City of London. I through team leave promised they need us more than we needed them.

Based on the list I think we may well be very screwed.

How much do we need to set the special brexit tax, 6p in the £ suit everyone?

It's the EU fantasy wish list. 'no discussion of military/security involvement offset against economic matters' LOLOL. That is exactly what we will do. No UK intelligence, a utopia for a certain group. I also like ' We will proceed to ensure no impact on the EU'. Well, we will proceed with in-kind measures. Tony, let the big boys/girls do what they are employed to do and go lie down. Your platitudes are rather tedious.

[///ajd]

pgh said:

Mrr T said:

I think you will find the trade deficit is about £60bn. Of that £25bn is with Germany.

So, I say again, we bring to the table 2 things a large trade deficit with German and money.

The Prime Minister spelt out pretty clearly today that we also bring the unique entity that is the City of London, a military of considerable power and an intelligence service that the rest of Europe relies upon.

It worries me to see the military card played so prominently in the letter. Is that really their top trump? If it is we're in trouble. Don't get me wrong, we're good at mil and intel stuff, but five eyes ain't much use to eyes six+ is it? I expect the EU will be pretty "meh" about it.

[Murph7355]

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref. to mocking derision.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/785168/Ange...

You don't have to be Stephen Hawking to predict that. Now if you'd predicted she would say the UK's interests come first and been right, then I'd have doffed my cap.

Nostradamus you are not.

Edited by Murph7355 on Wednesday 29th March 17:39

[Burwood]

///ajd said:

pgh said:

Mrr T said:

I think you will find the trade deficit is about £60bn. Of that £25bn is with Germany.

So, I say again, we bring to the table 2 things a large trade deficit with German and money.

The Prime Minister spelt out pretty clearly today that we also bring the unique entity that is the City of London, a military of considerable power and an intelligence service that the rest of Europe relies upon.

It worries me to see the military card played so prominently in the letter. Is that really their top trump? If it is we're in trouble. Don't get me wrong, we're good at mil and intel stuff, but five eyes ain't much use to eyes six+ is it? I expect the EU will be pretty "meh" about it.

well, that comment just shows you how naive you are- i don't mean that in a condescending way either And we should absolutely warn our 'friends' about this. If they want to start threatening and pushing us around then I'm all for the gloves coming off. I also think our PM knows this and is going in with the right attitude.

[///ajd]

Murph7355 said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref. to mocking derision.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/785168/Ange...

You don't have to be Stephen Hawking to predict that. Now if you'd predicted she would say the UK's interests come first and been right, then I'd have different by cap.

Nostradamus you are not.

Well enough naive brexiteers couldn't see it. I'd agree its predictable, but many were not bright enough to see it coming - many banged on about how much BMW needed tariff free access etc. for months. These threads were littered with it.

Sadly for the UK the list of naive "BMW need us" muppets included Mr D Davis, on BBC QT no less.

[0000]

///ajd said:

It worries me to see the military card played so prominently in the letter. Is that really their top trump? If it is we're in trouble. Don't get me wrong, we're good at mil and intel stuff, but five eyes ain't much use to eyes six+ is it? I expect the EU will be pretty "meh" about it.

Yeah, because that's how intel works. More countries, more intel.

fk me.

[Burwood]

Murph7355 said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref. to mocking derision.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/785168/Ange...

You don't have to be Stephen Hawking to predict that. Now if you'd predicted she would say the UK's interests come first and been right, then I'd have different by cap.

Nostradamus you are not.

what Merkel means is 'Germany come first-we need the UK to buy our fking cars'