Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[///ajd]

p1stonhead said:

skahigh said:

gruffalo said:

Is the EU response letter anywhere other than the Guardian, not found it on the BBC?

Reuters

That's Mays letter.

The response from the EU is separate.

Telegraph version here;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/britain...

The interesting point is that UK can remain but not improve terms - implying we can stay on the current terms.

[0000]

///ajd said:

0000 said:

///ajd said:

0000 said:

///ajd said:

It worries me to see the military card played so prominently in the letter. Is that really their top trump? If it is we're in trouble. Don't get me wrong, we're good at mil and intel stuff, but five eyes ain't much use to eyes six+ is it? I expect the EU will be pretty "meh" about it.

Yeah, because that's how intel works. More countries, more intel.

fk me.

You know what I mean. Or you might. Maybe not.

It is naive to assume or mil card is very strong in these negotiations.

Try and spell out why I'm wrong. It'll be entertaining.

Of course I know what you meant. You meant six+ countries is more than five and therefore five "ain't much use".

It's there in black and white for everyone to read.

No.

Five eyes means it is not shared wider routinely outside the five. As it says on the tin.

Sure some info is shared when it suits five eyes. But US can do that, UK not special in that respect.

But I'm sure you understand that.

That has nothing to do with what you said, no surprise there.

It also shows total ignorance of the distribution of originator controlled information and the nature and implementation of bilateral relationships between five eyes and other countries. Again, no surprise.

[Murph7355]

///ajd said:

Which they can through the US etc.

Do some think Germany / France and US have no relationship? And five eyes means what it says on the tin. But if necessary some tit bits will be thrown. That won't change.

The US are now looking to Germany for their EU links as we've done a cowardly retreat.

Yup, the US has a really cosy relationship with Germany. I wonder how much of our 60bn bill will go towards paying Germany's 300bn one The Donald typed up

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

skahigh said:

///ajd said:

You know what I mean. Or you might. Maybe not.

It is naive to assume or mil card is very strong in these negotiations.

Try and spell out why I'm wrong. It'll be entertaining.

Your favourite publication seems to have done a pretty good job of that previously.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/mar/24/b...

Guardian said:

Intelligence-gathering in Europe is comparable to the military situation. The only military force that really matters is the US-led Nato alliance. There is as yet no sign of a EU army.

It is the same in the intelligence world. The alliance that matters is “Five Eyes”, the most powerful intelligence-gathering alliance in the world: the US, the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand. It dwarves even China and Russia.

Other European countries rely on the US and the UK sharing at least some of the information and data. If the UK was to leave the EU, other European countries would continue to seek access to at least some of that intelligence.

The US are now looking to Germany for their EU links as we've done a cowardly retreat.

Of all your posts today that has to be the funniest!

Merkel and Trump, the best of buddies

[alfie2244]

don'tbesilly said:

Of all your posts today that has to be the funniest!

Merkel and Trump, the best of buddies

And this is what these two think of that post.

[Sway]

///ajd said:

p1stonhead said:

skahigh said:

gruffalo said:

Is the EU response letter anywhere other than the Guardian, not found it on the BBC?

Reuters

That's Mays letter.

The response from the EU is separate.

Telegraph version here;

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/29/britain...

The interesting point is that UK can remain but not improve terms - implying we can stay on the current terms.

The interesting points are:

It's draft, and entirely unworkable for any basis of a negotiation.

They are trying to hold the trade argument as a ransom.

Time for realpolitik behind closed doors. Stop being so fking daft (and those 'principles' are beyond daft, and materially harm the EU nations in contradiction of the stated aim, or these negotiations will be really short and sweet.

What's apparent is that the Eurocrats are trying to fire a shot across the bows. Yet they are more focused on the EU rather than the interests of the citizens within the EU. With a couple of national elections coming up, we'll see how far Merkel et al are willing to go in making it clear they value the EU institutions' interests above their electorate...

[NJH]

Sorry I don't have the time nor inclination to go through 290+ pages looking for the same points, however on the question at hand a U-turn could only really happen or be sold to the people if the conditions of EU membership change and that means the EU itself changing.

As of today this could be as simple as a redefinition of freedom of movement to some form of freedom of labour and democratic reform of the institutions. The tragedy of Brexit is that IMHO there is a real chance that a concerted effort could deliver on both, for many the sham of the 'deal' negotiated by David Cameron was the nail in the coffin that made Brexit inevitable. One could be generous to our European friends and believe that didn't represent the EU in a true light but a desperate con man of a PM playing his games. This is the potential second tragedy to Brexit because if we do manage to work up a good deal for both sides it will prove that the EU can work and we probably should have stayed in and tried to rework it from the inside. Perversely this also means that if things turn out just as the worst case for remoaners predict then it will prove that the EU can't and doesn't work thus proving the underlying case made by Brexiteers. Didn't expect that did you! The next 2 years may well end up proving all those who are loud at the moment on both extremes of this debate wrong but sadly neither camp can see the logical fallacies in a lot of their positioning.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

In the context of Germans selling cars.

Were you with Davis in that one? Your other posts suggest as much insight as him (for the avoidance of doubt, thats not much)

[John145]

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

And one of my core reasons for voting leave.

EU commission > EU > Various institutions > the people

Although there are probably a number of other players between the institutions and the people that get a look in first.

[///ajd]

John145 said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

And one of my core reasons for voting leave.

EU commission > EU > Various institutions > the people

Although there are probably a number of other players between the institutions and the people that get a look in first.[/quotes]

What do you even think that means?

Meaningless drivel.

Let me guess, a Faragette?

[John145]

///ajd said:

John145 said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

And one of my core reasons for voting leave.

EU commission > EU > Various institutions > the people

Although there are probably a number of other players between the institutions and the people that get a look in first.

What do you even think that means?

Meaningless drivel.

Let me guess, a Faragette?

It means that the EU is for the EU. It is not for the people. It is purposefully built to be unaccountable. Why would you build an institution of government to be free of democratic will for purposes other than, crudely put, corruption?

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

In the context of Germans selling cars.

Were you with Davis in that one? Your other posts suggest as much insight as him (for the avoidance of doubt, thats not much)

Only in the context of selling cars ? Where have they already settled for second place then ? Who isn't going to go into negotiations saying we want to be first and aiming to come out ahead , particularly when it's two sides in the deal.
Do you have an exclusive insight into any other areas where you've predicted they want to be first ?

[B'stard Child]

///ajd said:

John145 said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

And one of my core reasons for voting leave.

EU commission > EU > Various institutions > the people

Although there are probably a number of other players between the institutions and the people that get a look in first.

What do you even think that means?

Meaningless drivel.

Let me guess, a Faragette?

Really not tired of labelling people are you

PS your quoting skills still suck - sort it out will you

[anonymous-user]

B'stard Child said:

Really not tired of labelling people are you

PS your quoting skills still suck - sort it out will you

Surely he must be tired of all this by now.

[///ajd]

John145 said:

///ajd said:

John145 said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

And one of my core reasons for voting leave.

EU commission > EU > Various institutions > the people

Although there are probably a number of other players between the institutions and the people that get a look in first.

What do you even think that means?

Meaningless drivel.

Let me guess, a Faragette?

It means that the EU is for the EU. It is not for the people. It is purposefully built to be unaccountable. Why would you build an institution of government to be free of democratic will for purposes other than, crudely put, corruption?

Sorry, still utter drivel.

Why do you believe and spout this total crap?

One of the problems in the UK is that for too long no one has told you - thats crap. It is crap. You should be told its crap. You might not beleive it from a remainer, but be assured, you are talking utter crap.

Just my opinion of course. Believe Farage instead if he pushes your buttons.

[///ajd]

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

In the context of Germans selling cars.

Were you with Davis in that one? Your other posts suggest as much insight as him (for the avoidance of doubt, thats not much)

Only in the context of selling cars ? Where have they already settled for second place then ? Who isn't going to go into negotiations saying we want to be first and aiming to come out ahead , particularly when it's two sides in the deal.
Do you have an exclusive insight into any other areas where you've predicted they want to be first ?

Whats your view - Germanys BMW etc. need to sell cars to UK will trump Merkel & EU solidaity over cherry picking?

What do YOU think? Lets get that opinion on the table.

[B'stard Child]

bmw535i said:

B'stard Child said:

Really not tired of labelling people are you

PS your quoting skills still suck - sort it out will you

Surely he must be tired of all this by now.

Seems not...........

One of the reasons for my inclination for a 6-8 mth timeline is for similar reasons

{/slasher mode on} - Anyway shut up you kipper - go and blow in Farage's ear if that's how much you love him {/slasher}

Jesus and he says he wants contributions and discussion..........

[anonymous-user]

B'stard Child said:

Seems not...........

One of the reasons for my inclination for a 6-8 mth timeline is for similar reasons

{/slasher mode on} - Anyway shut up you kipper - go and blow in Farage's ear if that's how much you love him {/slasher}

Jesus and he says he wants contributions and discussion..........

He clamoured and clamoured for debate on immigration. When I gave it to him and exposed his and others complete lack of knowledge about it, he disappeared.

The same thing happened when we debated racism.

Empty vessels make the most noise I guess.

[Deptford Draylons]

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

Deptford Draylons said:

///ajd said:

And Merkel and other commentators are saying - EU comes first. I predicted that too, well before the ref.

Is this kinda quality insight that sets you apart on PH - You saw that one side would put itself first in negotiations. Wow, and everyone was saying they would put themselves second , right ? You are the master of statements of the bleedin obvious.

In the context of Germans selling cars.

Were you with Davis in that one? Your other posts suggest as much insight as him (for the avoidance of doubt, thats not much)

Only in the context of selling cars ? Where have they already settled for second place then ? Who isn't going to go into negotiations saying we want to be first and aiming to come out ahead , particularly when it's two sides in the deal.
Do you have an exclusive insight into any other areas where you've predicted they want to be first ?

Whats your view - Germanys BMW etc. need to sell cars to UK will trump Merkel & EU solidaity over cherry picking?

What do YOU think? Lets get that opinion on the table.

What's the point in replying to you as you never answer the questions. Earlier it was why you had changed your stance on an early migrant deal. Was great to hear the EU places it's silly 60bn bill ahead of 3m of its own migrants. Your outrage didn't last into objecting what the EU and Merkel said.
You were making out like you have some great insight into deals , as you did with Nissan before you got that one all wrong, and making simplistic statements that of the two sides , one was placing itself first. It is of course a staement of the obvious to be mocked when you say you predicted it.