45th President of the United States, Donald Trump.
Discussion
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
jmorgan said:
Not forgetting that the buyer is very fickle. Cheap t shirts or expensive ones?
In the West, this is largely an issue of what one is accustomed to. The economics of globalization have provided a dearth of cheap products at cheap prices (cheap initial cost and cheap for the manufacturer, but high-cost in many other ways). If you buy quality products at a higher price, the economics for the end consumer can work out even more favorably. As quality products last longer and perform better. Higher initial invest, but greater returns. For those who truly cannot afford new, second-hand has always been an option. It is an option for many who can afford new, as well.
The current model is not sustainable anyways, as it is based on a false growth paradigm that is ecologically and socially unsustainable.
Though American, I live in Germany, where the mentality is very different. Germans do like low prices of course, but they don't like poor quality, nor do they have the throw-away mentality of Americans.
The mentality is to buy as little as possible, but the best quality at the best price. This results in most people buying on sale or buying used. Second hand shops are frequented by people of all classes here, and many used goods can sell for relatively high prices comparatively.
It is also worth noting that Germany still has a strong domestic manufacturing base, and laws that protect a well-paid and educated workforce.
p1stonhead said:
The setup of the world economy differs with your opinion.
At the moment and as said above, with some who have that mind set. I try may hardest not purchase s
t T-Shirts and plastic crap if it can be avoided.But as YOU have agreed, he has the power (and a massive internal market) to change that to some degree.
(Edited: add the TShirt bit
Edited by Stickyfinger on Wednesday 18th January 10:13
scherzkeks said:
If you buy quality products at a higher price, the economics for the end consumer can work out even more favorably. As quality products last longer and perform better.
That was more relevant when China was producing tat.Now they have the capabilities to make iPhones.
Taiwanese semiconductors are in almost every electronic device on earth, too, for example.
Sure, your Hermes handbag needs to be made by a grizzled Frenchman who has spent multiple decades perfecting his leather sewing skills but for fast-fashion, and for the vast VAST majority of standard consumer requirements, China's manufacturing ability is more than acceptable.
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
jmorgan said:
Not forgetting that the buyer is very fickle. Cheap t shirts or expensive ones?
In the West, this is largely an issue of what one is accustomed to. The economics of globalization have provided a dearth of cheap products at cheap prices (cheap initial cost and cheap for the manufacturer, but high-cost in many other ways). If you buy quality products at a higher price, the economics for the end consumer can work out even more favorably. As quality products last longer and perform better. Higher initial invest, but greater returns. For those who truly cannot afford new, second-hand has always been an option. It is an option for many who can afford new, as well.
The current model is not sustainable anyways, as it is based on a false growth paradigm that is ecologically and socially unsustainable.
Though American, I live in Germany, where the mentality is very different. Germans do like low prices of course, but they don't like poor quality, nor do they have the throw-away mentality of Americans.
The mentality is to buy as little as possible, but the best quality at the best price. This results in most people buying on sale or buying used. Second hand shops are frequented by people of all classes here, and many used goods can sell for relatively high prices comparatively.
It is also worth noting that Germany still has a strong domestic manufacturing base, and laws that protect a well-paid and educated workforce.
And won't Americans be annoyed when close neighbours such as Canada are still getting cheap stuff from Asia (rightly or wrongly), when they aren't any more? It's not like the world which will be changing if he does such things, only America.
How much stuff would the world buy from America for higher prices than they can get elsewhere?
Unfortunately for us all, as long as labour can still be exploited in Asia, we can't ever hope to compete on pricing.
Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 18th January 10:14
Some of the quality coming out of the East is pretty damn good now though, and its done a way better budget than we in the west could ever manage to do because we have the problem of actually paying proper wages and giving holidays so our people enjoy a decent quality of life.
It wont always be this way, once the East becomes more westernised and the people demand more rights and a better standard of life its going to push prices up. The East will become as expensive as the west.
We will. have to pay then.
I suspect the quality of items and spares back up will be important and people will go back to getting 20+ years out of appliances rather than a couple of years and then buying new.
It wont always be this way, once the East becomes more westernised and the people demand more rights and a better standard of life its going to push prices up. The East will become as expensive as the west.
We will. have to pay then.
I suspect the quality of items and spares back up will be important and people will go back to getting 20+ years out of appliances rather than a couple of years and then buying new.
walm said:
scherzkeks said:
If you buy quality products at a higher price, the economics for the end consumer can work out even more favorably. As quality products last longer and perform better.
That was more relevant when China was producing tat.Now they have the capabilities to make iPhones.
Taiwanese semiconductors are in almost every electronic device on earth, too, for example.
Sure, your Hermes handbag needs to be made by a grizzled Frenchman who has spent multiple decades perfecting his leather sewing skills but for fast-fashion, and for the vast VAST majority of standard consumer requirements, China's manufacturing ability is more than acceptable.
p1stonhead said:
He can try. Doesnt mean it wont be stupid but I would expect nothing less from him.
It would destroy hundreds of American companies and cost a lot of people their jobs instantly.
I dont think for one second he can change it enough to make it economically viable. His slogan should be 'Make America Uncompetative Again'.
Your argument this whole time was that even if he is a fking moron for suggesting it, all that matters is that its techincally possible? Jesus you are a child.
Keep up with the personal insults mate, your doing well.It would destroy hundreds of American companies and cost a lot of people their jobs instantly.
I dont think for one second he can change it enough to make it economically viable. His slogan should be 'Make America Uncompetative Again'.
Your argument this whole time was that even if he is a f
king moron for suggesting it, all that matters is that its techincally possible? Jesus you are a child.Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 18th January 10:00
scherzkeks said:
p1stonhead said:
scherzkeks said:
jmorgan said:
Not forgetting that the buyer is very fickle. Cheap t shirts or expensive ones?
In the West, this is largely an issue of what one is accustomed to. The economics of globalization have provided a dearth of cheap products at cheap prices (cheap initial cost and cheap for the manufacturer, but high-cost in many other ways). If you buy quality products at a higher price, the economics for the end consumer can work out even more favorably. As quality products last longer and perform better. Higher initial invest, but greater returns. For those who truly cannot afford new, second-hand has always been an option. It is an option for many who can afford new, as well.
The current model is not sustainable anyways, as it is based on a false growth paradigm that is ecologically and socially unsustainable.
Though American, I live in Germany, where the mentality is very different. Germans do like low prices of course, but they don't like poor quality, nor do they have the throw-away mentality of Americans.
The mentality is to buy as little as possible, but the best quality at the best price. This results in most people buying on sale or buying used. Second hand shops are frequented by people of all classes here, and many used goods can sell for relatively high prices comparatively.
It is also worth noting that Germany still has a strong domestic manufacturing base, and laws that protect a well-paid and educated workforce.
As for the paying more for quality, does an American Apparel T-shirt costing $20 last any longer than a very similar one from Target for $5 ?
scherzkeks said:
It is highly amusing to watch snowflakes go into cognitive dissonance over globalism and economics. Undocumented workers, sweatshops, consumer awareness, and offshoring are both good and bad depending on whether a statement sounds anti- or pro-Trump. 
you love that phrase, cognitive dissonanceit's amusive to watch your cognitive dissonance when snowflakes/liberals/anti-trump/globalist/leftist/whatevers don't match your script
Getragdogleg said:
Some of the quality coming out of the East is pretty damn good now though, and its done a way better budget than we in the west could ever manage to do because we have the problem of actually paying proper wages and giving holidays so our people enjoy a decent quality of life.
It wont always be this way, once the East becomes more westernised and the people demand more rights and a better standard of life its going to push prices up. The East will become as expensive as the west.
We will. have to pay then.
I suspect the quality of items and spares back up will be important and people will go back to getting 20+ years out of appliances rather than a couple of years and then buying new.
People seem to think all the stuff they make is crap tat , it's not... far from it.It wont always be this way, once the East becomes more westernised and the people demand more rights and a better standard of life its going to push prices up. The East will become as expensive as the west.
We will. have to pay then.
I suspect the quality of items and spares back up will be important and people will go back to getting 20+ years out of appliances rather than a couple of years and then buying new.
What China have are huge material and labour resources and the general population are far smarter ( 98 v 105 ) , plus they work far far harder , the USA can't compete .
p1stonhead said:
True but everyone still does it if the two crap items are still cheaper than one good one.
I don't. You really do love to use the word everyone don't you.China has be built up on the back of the destruction of small scale high quality western manufacturing, those jobs and those skills.
superkartracer said:
Getragdogleg said:
Some of the quality coming out of the East is pretty damn good now though, and its done a way better budget than we in the west could ever manage to do because we have the problem of actually paying proper wages and giving holidays so our people enjoy a decent quality of life.
It wont always be this way, once the East becomes more westernised and the people demand more rights and a better standard of life its going to push prices up. The East will become as expensive as the west.
We will. have to pay then.
I suspect the quality of items and spares back up will be important and people will go back to getting 20+ years out of appliances rather than a couple of years and then buying new.
People seem to think all the stuff they make is crap tat , it's not... far from it. It wont always be this way, once the East becomes more westernised and the people demand more rights and a better standard of life its going to push prices up. The East will become as expensive as the west.
We will. have to pay then.
I suspect the quality of items and spares back up will be important and people will go back to getting 20+ years out of appliances rather than a couple of years and then buying new.
What China have are huge material and labour resources and the general population are far smarter ( 98 v 105 ) , plus they work far far harder , the USA can't compete .
the iphone in however billions of peoples pockets are made there! I think people assume they still only make cheap knock off's of western made goods.
Stickyfinger said:
p1stonhead said:
He can try. Doesnt mean it wont be stupid but I would expect nothing less from him.
It would destroy hundreds of American companies and cost a lot of people their jobs instantly.
I dont think for one second he can change it enough to make it economically viable. His slogan should be 'Make America Uncompetative Again'.
Your argument this whole time was that even if he is a fking moron for suggesting it, all that matters is that its techincally possible? Jesus you are a child.
Keep up with the personal insults mate, your doing well.It would destroy hundreds of American companies and cost a lot of people their jobs instantly.
I dont think for one second he can change it enough to make it economically viable. His slogan should be 'Make America Uncompetative Again'.
Your argument this whole time was that even if he is a f
king moron for suggesting it, all that matters is that its techincally possible? Jesus you are a child.Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 18th January 10:00
Stickyfinger said:
As your showing your disability this morning I will make it simple.
How about you calling me disabled for not understanding two questions which other people agreed made zero sense?Did you do Trump'esque hand movements when typing it?
You are no better than him you just cant see it (neither can most of his followers).
Stickyfinger said:
Define disability ?, there you go assuming again. Remember "You are Special"
How about you define what you meant by using the word disability in that context?You said it in relation to me not apparently understanding a question. So an insult insinuating some sort of mental disability presumably?
Stickyfinger said:
Nope, get back on topic Mr Angry
Didnt think so - it would be embarrasing for you. Just like Trump.Poor little snowflake being upset about being called a child yet openly uses disabilities as insults.
How about answer the question as you pressed me to even though yours made no sense?
Edited by p1stonhead on Wednesday 18th January 10:33
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff