45th President of the United States, Donald Trump.

[amusingduck]

paulguitar said:

Trump now openly lying about voter fraud again with no evidence. Fascinating to witness so much lying in such a short amount of time since taking office.

There was a thread about this on reddit, and people were prattling on about how he's gonna use it as an excuse for "mass vote suppression" ie "voter ID laws".

Can someone explain the issue with voter ID laws? Whats wrong with proving you're eligible to vote?

[minimoog]

AreOut said:

hmm noone mentioned Russians the last 100 pages? Was it fake news then or you've just forgiven them

No I'm pretty sure the news that Buzzfeed published a dossier of unverified 'evidence' was true. In fact I'm 100% certain of it.

[KrissKross]

FredClogs said:

Do the American people actually realise this is a man who bankrupted two casinos? I mean seriously, if you can't make the casino business work and its a business that's mathematically certain to work, then perhaps its better to just let the grown ups do the trade talks?

Are you not a milkman or something?

Please explain to us how business works, many of us here are a little inexperienced..

[FredClogs]

KrissKross said:

FredClogs said:

Do the American people actually realise this is a man who bankrupted two casinos? I mean seriously, if you can't make the casino business work and its a business that's mathematically certain to work, then perhaps its better to just let the grown ups do the trade talks?

Are you not a milkman or something?

Please explain to us how business works, many of us here are a little inexperienced..

This threads not about me old bean, it's about Trump.

If you want to talk about me start a new thread.

[minimoog]

B'stard Child said:

I was seriously impressed with Spicer - he dealt with everything the press corps threw at him and then threw some good points back

Oo that reminds me:

[scherzkeks]

Funkycoldribena said:

FredClogs said:

To be fair he's had his fingers burnt dealing with organisations before, if you know what I mean.

(I mean Cosa Nostra and the Yakuza)

Do the American people actually realise this is a man who bankrupted two casinos? I mean seriously, if you can't make the casino business work and its a business that's mathematically certain to work, then perhaps its better to just let the grown ups do the trade talks?

Bloody hell,why has no-one mentioned this before...

Kind of a pointless factoid though. Atlantic City is a dump. Used to go as a kid, and even then, every casino and boardwalk shop there was struggling or in the process of closing. I've heard they were trying to revamp things on multiple occasions over the years, but it has not worked.

Also worth noting is that Trump has diversified his investments pretty well. Some things will make money, some won't. His tastes aren't my tastes, but to suggest he is unsuccessful in business is the height of stupidity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trump_Organizati...

[Hugo a Gogo]

is it as stupid as suggesting Obama literally founded ISIS?

[Blaster72]

FredClogs said:

KrissKross said:

FredClogs said:

Do the American people actually realise this is a man who bankrupted two casinos? I mean seriously, if you can't make the casino business work and its a business that's mathematically certain to work, then perhaps its better to just let the grown ups do the trade talks?

Are you not a milkman or something?

Please explain to us how business works, many of us here are a little inexperienced..

This threads not about me old bean, it's about Trump.

If you want to talk about me start a new thread.

Fred, he openly admits he used Chapter 11 bankruptcy rules legally. They're designed to keep a business going by reorganising rather than allowing them to fold.

He one of many presidential candidates that have had businesses reorganised under Chapter 11.

As a comparison, American Airlines have been bankrupt 3 times and survived. Again in the US this is used to save a business not to suck money out and fold it.

This probably gives you a good idea of how fragile the Casino businesses became

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/jan/15/c...

[scherzkeks]

Hugo a Gogo said:

is it as stupid as suggesting Obama literally founded ISIS?

Nice change of topic; unfortunately you've walked into another sinkhole.

The administration used ISIS as a Saudi-funded tool to destabilize Syria, with the intent of toppling Assad. Would have worked, too, if the Russians had not stepped in. Perhaps you missed the discussion on the DIA report?

Furthermore, the Drone Ranger had us supporting Al-Nusra (our "moderate" fundamentlists), which is an Al-Quaida affilate. The actions of the previous administration are beyond sickening. And I never thought we'd top GWB's admin. in my lifetime.


http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/20...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-05-23/secret-pe...

https://consortiumnews.com/2016/02/16/obamas-moder...

[Hugo a Gogo]

so did he literally found it? back in 2003

[scherzkeks]

Hugo a Gogo said:

so did he literally found it? back in 2003

Is there a reason you are not including the full quote, Hugo?

[Hugo a Gogo]

simple brevity

“In fact, in many respects, you know they honour President Obama, Isis is honouring President Obama. He is the founder of Isis. He is the founder of Isis. He’s the founder. He founded Isis.

“And I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton. Co-founder. Crooked Hillary Clinton.”

what's your point now?

he's previously said ISIS 'wasn't on the map' before Crooked Hillary/Billary/Killary


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/...

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 24th January 09:47

[walm]

amusingduck said:

Can someone explain the issue with voter ID laws? Whats wrong with proving you're eligible to vote?

It's fundamentally racist because there is a strong skew to very poor black and hispanic people not having IDs such as driving licenses / higher proportion of unbanked etc...
And owing to the strong Democrat bias of such minorities they are highly partisan laws as a result.

Not to mention that they solve a massive non-problem since voter fraud just really isn't a thing.

Obviously I am a bleeding heart liberal so I love John Oliver on this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHFOwlMCdto

[Stickyfinger]

They have Social Security ID, that is acceptable.

I cannot find a single reason why a citizen cannot lawfully provide ID.

[scherzkeks]

Hugo a Gogo said:

simple brevity

“In fact, in many respects, you know they honour President Obama, Isis is honouring President Obama. He is the founder of Isis. He is the founder of Isis. He’s the founder. He founded Isis.

“And I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton. Co-founder. Crooked Hillary Clinton.”

what's your point now?

he's previously said ISIS 'wasn't on the map' before Crooked Hillary/Billary/Killary


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/...

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 24th January 09:47

I am sure it was all in the interest of brevity, yes.

"He was the founder. His, the way he got out of Iraq was that that was the founding of ISIS, okay?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/donald-...

[Hugo a Gogo]

scherzkeks said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

simple brevity

“In fact, in many respects, you know they honour President Obama, Isis is honouring President Obama. He is the founder of Isis. He is the founder of Isis. He’s the founder. He founded Isis.

“And I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton. Co-founder. Crooked Hillary Clinton.”

what's your point now?

he's previously said ISIS 'wasn't on the map' before Crooked Hillary/Billary/Killary


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/...

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 24th January 09:47

I am sure it was all in the interest of brevity, yes.

"He was the founder. His, the way he got out of Iraq was that that was the founding of ISIS, okay?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/donald-...

in that article said:

headline: Donald Trump: I meant that Obama founded ISIS, literally
Trump was asked by host Hugh Hewitt about the comments Trump made Wednesday night in Florida, and Hewitt said he understood Trump to mean "that he (Obama) created the vacuum, he lost the peace."
Trump objected.
"No, I meant he's the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "I do. He was the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award. I give her, too, by the way, Hillary Clinton."

great article by the way, really backs up your point

more said:

"Do you not like that?" Trump asked Hewitt.
"I think I would say they created, they lost the peace. They created the Libyan vacuum, they created the vacuum into which ISIS came, but they didn't create ISIS. That's what I would say," Hewitt said.
"Well, I disagree," Trump replied, and Hewitt moved on.
In 2007, however, Trump actually supported a rapid withdrawal from Iraq, despite hitting Obama for his drawdown years later.
"You know how they get out? They get out," Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer in 2007. "That's how they get out. Declare victory and leave, because I'll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They're in a civil war over there, Wolf. There's nothing that we're going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war."

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 24th January 10:03

[walm]

Stickyfinger said:

They have Social Security ID, that is acceptable.

I cannot find a single reason why a citizen cannot lawfully provide ID.

Seriously? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Photos.
That's the issue.

Your SSN card has no ID photo - it's a pretty laughable document, frankly.

Take the proposed Texas law.
It limited the forms of photo ID to state driver’s licenses, U.S. passports, military photo IDs, concealed weapon permits, and U.S citizenship certificates with photographs.
And guess what...
"In Texas, the required IDs were held by over 95% of the population, but among the registered voters, Hispanic and Black voters were respectively 195% and 305% more likely than their Anglo peers to lack the required ID.”

Illiterate and disabled citizens for example often have every right to vote but simply don't have those forms of photo ID.

[scherzkeks]

Hugo a Gogo said:

scherzkeks said:

Hugo a Gogo said:

simple brevity

“In fact, in many respects, you know they honour President Obama, Isis is honouring President Obama. He is the founder of Isis. He is the founder of Isis. He’s the founder. He founded Isis.

“And I would say the co-founder would be crooked Hillary Clinton. Co-founder. Crooked Hillary Clinton.”

what's your point now?

he's previously said ISIS 'wasn't on the map' before Crooked Hillary/Billary/Killary


http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/...

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 24th January 09:47

I am sure it was all in the interest of brevity, yes.

"He was the founder. His, the way he got out of Iraq was that that was the founding of ISIS, okay?

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/11/politics/donald-...

in that article said:

headline: Donald Trump: I meant that Obama founded ISIS, literally
Trump was asked by host Hugh Hewitt about the comments Trump made Wednesday night in Florida, and Hewitt said he understood Trump to mean "that he (Obama) created the vacuum, he lost the peace."
Trump objected.
"No, I meant he's the founder of ISIS," Trump said. "I do. He was the most valuable player. I give him the most valuable player award. I give her, too, by the way, Hillary Clinton."

great article by the way, really backs up your point

more said:

"Do you not like that?" Trump asked Hewitt.
"I think I would say they created, they lost the peace. They created the Libyan vacuum, they created the vacuum into which ISIS came, but they didn't create ISIS. That's what I would say," Hewitt said.
"Well, I disagree," Trump replied, and Hewitt moved on.
In 2007, however, Trump actually supported a rapid withdrawal from Iraq, despite hitting Obama for his drawdown years later.
"You know how they get out? They get out," Trump told CNN's Wolf Blitzer in 2007. "That's how they get out. Declare victory and leave, because I'll tell you, this country is just going to get further bogged down. They're in a civil war over there, Wolf. There's nothing that we're going to be able to do with a civil war. They are in a major civil war."

Edited by Hugo a Gogo on Tuesday 24th January 10:03

The article contained a quote that provided context.

The context you hesitated to provide, as it exposed you.

[Stickyfinger]

walm said:

Stickyfinger said:

They have Social Security ID, that is acceptable.

I cannot find a single reason why a citizen cannot lawfully provide ID.

Seriously? You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Photos.
That's the issue.

Your SSN card has no ID photo - it's a pretty laughable document, frankly.

Take the proposed Texas law.
It limited the forms of photo ID to state driver’s licenses, U.S. passports, military photo IDs, concealed weapon permits, and U.S citizenship certificates with photographs.
And guess what...
"In Texas, the required IDs were held by over 95% of the population, but among the registered voters, Hispanic and Black voters were respectively 195% and 305% more likely than their Anglo peers to lack the required ID.”

Illiterate and disabled citizens for example often have every right to vote but simply don't have those forms of photo ID.

Here are the TEXAS requirements.

Here is a list of the acceptable forms of photo ID:

Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
Texas license to carry a handgun issued by DPS
United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
United States passport

With the exception of the U.S. citizenship certificate, the identification must be current or have expired no more than 4 years before being presented for voter qualification at the polling place.

Election Identification Certificates are available from DPS driver license offices during regular business hours. Find mobile station locations here.

Here is a list of the supporting forms of ID that can be presented if the voter does not possess one of the forms of acceptable photo ID and cannot obtain one due to a reasonable impediment:

Valid voter registration certificate
Certified birth certificate (must be an original)
Copy of or original current utility bill
Copy of or original bank statement
Copy of or original government check
Copy of or original paycheck
Copy of or original government document with your name and an address (original required if it contains a photograph)

[Hugo a Gogo]

haha you loon

the context was that he repeated the claim four times in succession, then added Hillary Clinton
that's the full quote, that's the context


in that article, (with that headline backing up what I posted) it's talking about another occasion, in interview, after the fact - that's not context

he repeated the claim again, and denied your interpretation twice, whilst simultaneously adding one comment suggesting the opposite. clear as mud

and this all from an interview I hadn't seen, but I was somehow suppressing for 'exposing me' - WTF am I meant to be exposed as? a paid shill?