Would you vote in favour of raising taxes?

[MDMetal]

Fastdruid said:

[1] Which as we all know smells of wee and of which has been said: A man who, beyond the age of 26, finds himself on a bus can count himself as a failure.

But only because public transport is so rubbish, I went to Toulouse a month ago, got out the airport and stepped on the tram, I didn't see myself as a failure and neither did anyone else I encountered on the tram, nobody on the tube considers themselves a failure. In situations where public transport does better than private there is no stigma the trick is to find situations where it's feasible to transform the public transport into that option. Waiting an hour in the cold and the rain for a freezing bus that costs more than anyone sensible would guess is not the answer...

[Jasandjules]

Robertj21a said:

Partly because buses are far more efficient movers of people than individual cars/taxis. If 30-40 car loads were removed from that same road it would only take 1 bus to carry them all. The road would then be clearer, for 'essential users' (emergency services, delivery vans etc) and the emissions would be eased.

Many are not 'special roads made alongside the normal road', they're often just a lane within an existing road.

Around here they are special roads. And the buses are generally nearly empty. Hardly efficient.

[Rovinghawk]

Countdown said:

Rovinghawk said:

Countdown said:

the Council has put in place systems / processes / procedures to ensure that it is operating economically, efficiently, and effectively..

By whose standards?

By the auditors standards.

I like you. You're funny.

I put it to you that if the council don't get a good enough audit report they'd find 'better' auditors.

[Countdown]

Rovinghawk said:

I like you. You're funny.

I put it to you that if the council don't get a good enough audit report they'd find 'better' auditors.

In the "humour" stakes you're not too bad yourself.

Councils don't appoint their own auditors. It's done by the DCLG.

[anonymous-user]

Countdown said:

REALIST123 said:

I could go on. We have a local authority that seems to achieve very little with the significant budget it operates. Again in my experience the bettter managed services are those that have been fully outsourced.

The Council is accountable to the Councillors who, in turn, are accountable to local voters.

So whose fault would you say it is?

Oh, do get real. It makes no difference for whom one votes or which councillors are elected. The employees managing these functions aren't sackable as we regularly see and that's assuming any councillor wants to truly rock the boat.

[MDMetal]

REALIST123 said:

Countdown said:

REALIST123 said:

I could go on. We have a local authority that seems to achieve very little with the significant budget it operates. Again in my experience the bettter managed services are those that have been fully outsourced.

The Council is accountable to the Councillors who, in turn, are accountable to local voters.

So whose fault would you say it is?

Oh, do get real. It makes no difference for whom one votes or which councillors are elected. The employees managing these functions aren't sackable as we regularly see and that's assuming any councillor wants to truly rock the boat.

Also the bountiful expenses department rarely becomes the main issue voters vote on

[Andehh]

V8 Fettler said:

Smollet said:

Between 20-25% of council tax goes on paying the pensions of the staff. Make a start with cutting that and cutting the pay of the executives so no I wouldn't vote for a rise in council tax.

It can be over 50% http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/98...

The Moose said:

55palfers said:

My council have just spent close on £7.0M on a bus lane to save 8 minutes on journey times for near 1700 bus users at peak times.

http://www.solihull.gov.uk/news/ArtMID/820/Article...

Probably ten times that number are now sat in their cars for longer than they used to.

The bus lane also operates 24/7 for some reason, so most of the day the lane is deserted.

More taxes for the council - no!, no! and thrice, no!

This is something that pissed me off recently. Why have bus lanes? Why not have car pool lanes? Makes much more sense to me!

They both made for very very painful reading. Cut backs, cut back, cuts backs then you read things like that.

[Rovinghawk]

Countdown said:

Rovinghawk said:

I put it to you that if the council don't get a good enough audit report they'd find 'better' auditors.

Councils don't appoint their own auditors. It's done by the DCLG.

It's still a cosy little club where nobody wants to rock the boat.

[MKnight702]

Countdown said:

Rovinghawk said:

Countdown said:

the Council has put in place systems / processes / procedures to ensure that it is operating economically, efficiently, and effectively..

By whose standards?

By the auditors standards.

Countdown, if you believe that councils are run economically, efficiently, and effectively then I've got a bridge for sale.

One of our friends works for the local council, well when I say works I mean turns up in the office occasionally for a short period. She has more time off than I have ever seen anyone else ever take, as the kids said they felt a bit "ill" or sniffed once, authorised "sick days" that are booked like holidays and allocated annually or flexitime because she said she worked overtime. But, hey at least I'm not paying for it, Oi hold on......

[Robertj21a]

MKnight702 said:

Countdown, if you believe that councils are run economically, efficiently, and effectively then I've got a bridge for sale.

One of our friends works for the local council, well when I say works I mean turns up in the office occasionally for a short period. She has more time off than I have ever seen anyone else ever take, as the kids said they felt a bit "ill" or sniffed once, authorised "sick days" that are booked like holidays and allocated annually or flexitime because she said she worked overtime. But, hey at least I'm not paying for it, Oi hold on......

I think I must know her - and about a dozen others who take the pee 'working' at some local councils.

[Countdown]

Rovinghawk said:

It's still a cosy little club where nobody wants to rock the boat.

The committees are made up of a mix of Tory/Labour/LD/UKIP Councillors. You then have Council Managers. And members of the Public. It isn't a cosy little club in my experience, there is a fair amount of argument, disagreement, and differing agendas.

However, where it differs from NP&E is that the Councillors can see the figures and reports in front of them. So can any MoP who turn up. They don't have the "my mate knows somebody who was off sick for 17 years and retired with a £100k pension" stories as "cast iron proof" of how inefficient councils are supposed to be.

Are Councils inefficient? Yes, partly because of their size and partly because they are incredibly risk-averse. However they generally do a reasonable job given the circumstances.

[Rovinghawk]

Countdown said:

Are Councils inefficient? Yes

So let's deal with that before raising taxes.

[MKnight702]

Rovinghawk said:

Countdown said:

Are Councils inefficient? Yes

So let's deal with that before raising taxes.

Abso-bloody-lutely, I am so fed up with the paying public being fed the lie that cuts in funding = cuts in services, bks, make the services more efficient first then, once no more fat is able to be cut, reduce the services. And by make the service more efficient, I don't mean appoint a bunch of middle managers to request massive amounts of data to be produced by the people who are supposed to be delivering services so that these new managers can produce reams of reports about how the staff no longer have any time and it's all the fault of those holding the purse strings tightly for not supplying an endless pot of money.

[BlackLabel]

skynews said:

Surrey is to hold a referendum on increasing council tax by a massive 15% to pay for the growing crisis in social care.

It is expected that the decision could trigger other cash-strapped councils to follow suit in order to meet the growing cost of caring for people in their own homes after Theresa May refused to increase social care funding.

A 15% increase by the Tory-controlled authority, which includes the Chancellor Philip Hammond's constituency, could add around £200 to the average bill.

http://news.sky.com/story/surrey-to-hold-referendum-on-15-council-tax-rise-to-fund-social-care-10734359

[Countdown]

BlackLabel said:

skynews said:

Surrey is to hold a referendum on increasing council tax by a massive 15% to pay for the growing crisis in social care.

It is expected that the decision could trigger other cash-strapped councils to follow suit in order to meet the growing cost of caring for people in their own homes after Theresa May refused to increase social care funding.

A 15% increase by the Tory-controlled authority, which includes the Chancellor Philip Hammond's constituency, could add around £200 to the average bill.

http://news.sky.com/story/surrey-to-hold-referendum-on-15-council-tax-rise-to-fund-social-care-10734359

One possible option that would minimise the impact on local taxpayers would be if the Council was to put a charge on the person's home which crystallises once they've died. This would mean they carry on living in their own home, the Council funds the cost of care, and recoups it when the house is sold.

[sidicks]

BlackLabel said:

http://news.sky.com/story/surrey-to-hold-referendu...

Gotta fund those pensions somehow!

[Rovinghawk]

They mention ring-fencing some of the additional tax for social care. Is the rest of the social care budget similarly ring-fenced or might it be reallocated to other purposes?

[Countdown]

sidicks said:

BlackLabel said:

http://news.sky.com/story/surrey-to-hold-referendu...

Gotta fund those pensions somehow!

Would be cheaper to use private sector care homes.........

[Murph7355]

Countdown said:

One possible option that would minimise the impact on local taxpayers would be if the Council was to put a charge on the person's home which crystallises once they've died. This would mean they carry on living in their own home, the Council funds the cost of care, and recoups it when the house is sold.

Is something similar not already done? Ie if you have over X amount in assets then you don't get service/need to contribute?

[Moonhawk]

What are councils spending all the money on. Council tax increases have been outstripping inflation since the late 1990s?

Why could councils manage in the late 80s and 90s - yet despite almost two decades of above inflation rises, they are suddenly "cash strapped" because the increases have been brought closer to inflation.

Have councils become too accustomed to the 'magic money tree' bearing fruit?