Snoopers Charter

[Oakey]

esxste said:

People should be very worried about the snoopers charter, not just for the political ramifications of any authorised agency knowing your web history, but mostly because of who is storing the that data.

In the real world its like the Goverment making everyone store their door keys in a cabinet at the end of the street, trusting a private company to guard it however they see fit. The better ones with have a couple burly men, tactical response teams on standby and all covered with CCTV. The cheaper ones charging £1.99 a month will probably just have a couple fake cameras pointed at it.


Also now incoming is the Digital Economies Bill. With a lovely amendment that requires ISP's to block pornographic websites that do not verify the age of the user. Because no kid ever has access to daddy's wallet.

We're run by Luddite idiots, desperately trying to control what they can't.

Edited by esxste on Wednesday 23 November 10:40

I was going to mention this, first they'll start with smut, because nobody wants to stick their head above the parapet and admit to being a 'pervert'. Of course, then the mission creep will begin.

[CarreraLightweightRacing]

I watched the new film 'Snowden' the other day, then also followed this up by reading a little into the production of the film. Due to concerns raised in producing the film they were unable to produce it in the States, in fact it was made by a company in Germany. It kind of fits in with exactly what this thread is all about. My knowledge of IT is limited, as I really have no interest, but if the film and the discussion here is in any way accurate, I'm surprised laws like this are able to be passed, as surely the will of the people would need to be considered before hand?

[All that jazz]

Tonsko said:

If anyone is considering a VPN, they can do better than visit this site which lists a lot of them and various 'tests' on them - ethics, within 5 eyes, within 14 eyes, encryption, speed, etc. etc

https://thatoneprivacysite.net/

Thanks - bookmarked for future reference. Not read it in detail but the guy seems to be pretty dedicated to the topic. I fall into the 'too much hassle' camp when it comes to VPNs etc but this recent news is making me have a rethink about it all.

Interesting thread and discussion!

[Andehh]

Does anyone know which groups are fighting back against this? Would like to donate.

[Tonsko]

Andehh said:

Does anyone know which groups are fighting back against this? Would like to donate.

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/campaignin...

Are the two that I know about.

[Andehh]

Tonsko said:

Andehh said:

Does anyone know which groups are fighting back against this? Would like to donate.

https://www.openrightsgroup.org/

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/campaignin...

Are the two that I know about.

Thanks. Will donate to the former.

[shalmaneser]

roachcoach said:

loose cannon said:

I get that, but for me personally I don't really have anything of worth for hackers to take, I'm not a wealthy man
The only thing to my name is a few used cars, so I don't think I would be of much priority to a professional hacker
I'd probably be more of a drain on them tbh,either way there won't be any say in it for the likes of us so it's just futile worrying to much about it I'm guessing you must have a huge empire to worry about as you seem quite uptight about it all
Or you have a dodgy website history me I just check out, redtube and all the usual pron sites couldn't care less who knows
I'm 41 I'm a bit long in the tooth now to be embarrassed about watching prom

Edited by loose cannon on Tuesday 22 November 20:32

You might be ok, but consider say:

Teens in a religious household looking at gay help/information, or birth control, or abortion.
Teachers who enjoy less than mainstream, but still perfectly legal porn would likely find themselves in an untenable position in short order
People who are researching divorce laws/seperation
People seeking help on domestic abuse issues

Although none of these are reason to condemn anyone to a reasonable person I wager there are significant numbers of people who would suffer greatly were this kind of thing revealed.

I mean that is just from the top of my head and far from extreme or unrealistic avenues. It doesn't even need to be blackmail or ransom of you; Ashley Madison was about the site, the users were collateral damage. People get too caught up in porn alone, it is not about that.

Excellent points.

All that jazz said:

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear!"

What's happened to all the site's lefties who have usually swooped in and trotted out that line within minutes of such a topic starting?

And yet it's a right wing government that put this law into action?

They could easily have stopped it if they chose.

This is an authoritarian vs libertarian issue, not left and right.

And it stinks.

[Alias218]

I imagine any family household with teenage kids will have an ICR that looks something like the following:

25/11/16

20:34:42 Pornhub
20:53:12 Pornhub
21:26:45 Pornhub
22:04:10 Pornhub
22:05:13 Tesco.com (more Andrex)
22:27:37 Pornhub

26/11/16

20:54:12 Pornhub
...

[Oakey]

Just because people like to think they've nothing to hide because they don't believe they're doing anything wrong, that doesn't mean others won't think you're doing wrong.

Especially with how things can be twisted to suit an agenda.

So watching a video that, shock horror, features female ejaculation could be twisted to "Joe Bloggs found with extreme porn on his computer", the rest can be left to the imagination to fill in the blanks. Do you really want to have to argue "It was just some squirting! Honest! It wasn't donkey porn ffs!"

[Eric Mc]

I'm learning all sorts of new stuff today.

[rscott]

Alias218 said:

I imagine any family household with teenage kids will have an ICR that looks something like the following:

25/11/16

20:34:42 Pornhub
20:53:12 Pornhub
21:26:45 Pornhub
22:04:10 Pornhub
22:05:13 Tesco.com (more Andrex)
22:27:37 Pornhub

26/11/16

20:54:12 Pornhub
...

Although actually, it'll just be

25/11/16

20:34:42 1.2.1.4
20:53:12 1.2.1.4
21:26:45 1.2.1.4
22:04:10 1.2.1.4
22:05:13 5.6.4.3
22:27:37 1.2.1.4

26/11/16

20:54:12 1.2.1.4

Because they'll only be able to log ip addresses, which are pretty useless, given the number of websites which use CDNs (like Akamai, for example) which share addresses between devices.

[All that jazz]

shalmaneser said:

All that jazz said:

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear!"

What's happened to all the site's lefties who have usually swooped in and trotted out that line within minutes of such a topic starting?

And yet it's a right wing government that put this law into action?

They could easily have stopped it if they chose.

This is an authoritarian vs libertarian issue, not left and right.

And it stinks.

Yes, it was/is a right wing government, disappointingly. But it's always been Labour's plan to have this level of snooping and authority over people, usually eagerly supported by lefties who "have nothing to hide" so think it's a great idea. However I don't really think the distinction by leftie Labour and right-wing Tory exists anymore as both parties have a lot of overlap on various issues these days, this being one of them. Despite being quite impressed with TM and her no-nonsense progress with Brexit, this Snooper's Charter will ensure my vote at the next GE won't be going in the Tory box.

[shalmaneser]

Oakey said:

Just because people like to think they've nothing to hide because they don't believe they're doing anything wrong, that doesn't mean others won't think you're doing wrong.

Especially with how things can be twisted to suit an agenda.

So watching a video that, shock horror, features female ejaculation could be twisted to "Joe Bloggs found with extreme porn on his computer", the rest can be left to the imagination to fill in the blanks. Do you really want to have to argue "It was just some squirting! Honest! It wasn't donkey porn ffs!"

That's the point isn't it?

I don't care if someone watches porn, but does the religious mother of the primary school child care if the teacher watches it? what if they watch gay porn? Or (as recently legislated) they watch 'extreme' porn? Blackmail material.

Of course there is the problem with political liberties - Fireman discussing union action, students organising rallies, grass roots political action...

MPs and journalists are apparently excluded - how is this done? I'm sure an 'error' could be made and an opposition or rebellious MP's data gets 'accidentally' collected and leaked - problem over for the government, do an inquiry, it'll never happen again, one bad apple etc etc but the original problem MP or journalist's life and career is over.

it's naive to suggest all the above won't happen.

I've signed up to join liberty and I suggest others do too.

Although it's all feeling incredibly futile right now.

[All that jazz]

rscott said:

Although actually, it'll just be

25/11/16

20:34:42 1.2.1.4
20:53:12 1.2.1.4
21:26:45 1.2.1.4
22:04:10 1.2.1.4
22:05:13 5.6.4.3
22:27:37 1.2.1.4

26/11/16

20:54:12 1.2.1.4

Because they'll only be able to log ip addresses, which are pretty useless, given the number of websites which use CDNs (like Akamai, for example) which share addresses between devices.

There are plenty of websites that will convert an IP to web address/domain name.

[768]

ReaderScars said:

If you don't like the sound of this, donate to Liberty and help them challenge it legally.

https://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/campaignin...

I'm in two minds about opposing this, even though it's obviously undesirable legislation.

Anything ISPs can trivially log is probably so overt it's worth obscuring anyway. Encouraging an uptake of VPNs, Tor, etc. and even generating duff data to render the data useless is perhaps a better route.

[Oakey]

shalmaneser said:

That's the point isn't it?

I don't care if someone watches porn, but does the religious mother of the primary school child care if the teacher watches it? what if they watch gay porn? Or (as recently legislated) they watch 'extreme' porn? Blackmail material.

Of course there is the problem with political liberties - Fireman discussing union action, students organising rallies, grass roots political action...

MPs and journalists are apparently excluded - how is this done? I'm sure an 'error' could be made and an opposition or rebellious MP's data gets 'accidentally' collected and leaked - problem over for the government, do an inquiry, it'll never happen again, one bad apple etc etc but the original problem MP or journalist's life and career is over.

it's naive to suggest all the above won't happen.

I've signed up to join liberty and I suggest others do too.

Although it's all feeling incredibly futile right now.

Oh we see you've joined Liberty?

*adds name to list of potential political dissidents*

[rscott]

All that jazz said:

rscott said:

Although actually, it'll just be

25/11/16

20:34:42 1.2.1.4
20:53:12 1.2.1.4
21:26:45 1.2.1.4
22:04:10 1.2.1.4
22:05:13 5.6.4.3
22:27:37 1.2.1.4

26/11/16

20:54:12 1.2.1.4

Because they'll only be able to log ip addresses, which are pretty useless, given the number of websites which use CDNs (like Akamai, for example) which share addresses between devices.

There are plenty of websites that will convert an IP to web address/domain name.

But they won't necessarily know which domain name on that ip the user wanted to access. Many IP addresses are used to host mulitple websites/services.

[anonymous-user]

All that jazz said:

shalmaneser said:

All that jazz said:

"If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear!"

What's happened to all the site's lefties who have usually swooped in and trotted out that line within minutes of such a topic starting?

And yet it's a right wing government that put this law into action?

They could easily have stopped it if they chose.

This is an authoritarian vs libertarian issue, not left and right.

And it stinks.

Yes, it was/is a right wing government, disappointingly. But it's always been Labour's plan to have this level of snooping and authority over people, usually eagerly supported by lefties who "have nothing to hide" so think it's a great idea. However I don't really think the distinction by leftie Labour and right-wing Tory exists anymore as both parties have a lot of overlap on various issues these days, this being one of them. Despite being quite impressed with TM and her no-nonsense progress with Brexit, this Snooper's Charter will ensure my vote at the next GE won't be going in the Tory box.

I love the way a conservative PMs bill somehow still manages to become a dig at lefties.

May has always been big on increasing surveillance and the power of the police (whilst cutting their pay and conditions)

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2015-16/invest...

This investigatory powers bill is her baby. She loves this kind of big brother stuff.

[wiggy001]

rscott said:

But they won't necessarily know which domain name on that ip the user wanted to access. Many IP addresses are used to host mulitple websites/services.

newspaper said:

rscott may have watched donkey porn shocker!

Internet records today show that rscott has been accessing a server known to be used by illegal donkey porn websites.









or possibly accessing another legal site on the same IP...

[rscott]

wiggy001 said:

rscott said:

But they won't necessarily know which domain name on that ip the user wanted to access. Many IP addresses are used to host mulitple websites/services.

newspaper said:

rscott may have watched donkey porn shocker!

Internet records today show that rscott has been accessing a server known to be used by illegal donkey porn websites.








or possibly accessing another legal site on the same IP...

Indeed :-) Imagine the confusion if both Britain First & Muslim Council Of Britain both used Cloudflare and ended up sharing the same CDN ip address!