Man killed because his cruise control wouldn't switch off!

[Ari]

speedking31 said:

xjay1337 said:

I tried electronic handbrake at 70mph once. I had hoped for many skids but I ended up with a bong of disapproval as the computer said no.

Police collision investigator Andrew Evans said:

... applying the handbrake could have saved Mr Gandhi's life by forcing the car's rear wheels to lock up and turn it around so it skidded backwards.

Not if he drove the same car as xjay1337.

This is the bit that gets me - this Police Collision Investigator seems totally clueless about cars, physics or real life. It seems like he just watched Fast & Furious a couple of times as 'training' and then said "Right, I've got it, thanks".

Even if the handbrake did lock up the rear wheels, does he seriously believe that a car travelling at 100mph+ on a dark motorway, driven by someone who, for whatever reason, thought that the cruise control was jammed on, could have simply executed a nifty one hundred mile an hour handbrake turn in order to bring the vehicle to a halt?

[Ayahuasca]

amancalledrob said:

Ayahuasca said:

...While he was having these happy thoughts he lost concentration and smacked the stationery truck.

No wonder it ruined his car. A truck filled with stationery would be pretty heavy

With that comment you are taking a leaf out of my book. Anyway, the crash happened on the A4.

[amancalledrob]

Ayahuasca said:

amancalledrob said:

Ayahuasca said:

...While he was having these happy thoughts he lost concentration and smacked the stationery truck.

No wonder it ruined his car. A truck filled with stationery would be pretty heavy

With that comment you are taking a leaf out of my book. Anyway, the crash happened on the A4.

Doffs cap

Reading between the lines (there's loads of mileage in this one, isn't there?) I'm inclined to agree that it was either a) the lady on the phone will help me sort this ou fk I'M GOING TO HIT THAT TRU

or b) elaborately disguised suicide. If only the guy who could tell us hadn't been minced

[davepoth]

Ari said:

This is the bit that gets me - this Police Collision Investigator seems totally clueless about cars, physics or real life. It seems like he just watched Fast & Furious a couple of times as 'training' and then said "Right, I've got it, thanks".

Even if the handbrake did lock up the rear wheels, does he seriously believe that a car travelling at 100mph+ on a dark motorway, driven by someone who, for whatever reason, thought that the cruise control was jammed on, could have simply executed a nifty one hundred mile an hour handbrake turn in order to bring the vehicle to a halt?

No, he's quite right. Think about it. If he pulled the handbrake, skidded, spun and then rolled the car the accident would take a couple of seconds to come to a halt, rather than all of the energy being absorbed very quickly by the truck. For any given speed, The longer an accident takes to stop, the less it hurts.

[B'stard Child]

CDP said:

B'stard Child said:

REALIST123 said:

B'stard Child said:

Thanks for clarification - I can assure you that many cars from 1986 onwards right up until 2006 have pedals that are moved by cruise control as a by product of having cable actuated throttles and regardless of system used to control cruise.

Break the link with a "DBW throttle" and the pedal no longer moves as there is no physical link to the throttle butterfly.

My very first car back in 1982 had cruise control - Fiat 126 - you just pulled the choke lever up from the floor about half way and it would happily cruise at 45 mph with no feet on the throttle pedal

You sure about your fiat? The reason I ask is that we had a 128 about that time. It had a choke but also had a hand throttle, which looked like a choke control but simply held the throttle open and could/was used as a rudimentary cruise control.

Positive - starter and choke were Levers on the floor mounted by the handbrake - could pull it up by no more than half or the engine would choke and die

REALIST123 said:

Highly dangerous, god knows how anyone survived those times......

Fiat 126 - RWD, Rear engined and dwarfed by most cars around it - how I didn't die in a ball of flames I'll never know - gods must have smiled on me I guess

Because the 126 was so slow you got more flies on the rear number plate than the front where they'd misjudged overtaking manoeuvres...

(I had a 126 "Brown", my brother attempted to time the 0..60 on the Acle Straight near Gt. Yarmouth and failed. 7 miles long and completely flat)

0-60 was glacial but from memory it was around 40 secs so I'd sugest your brothers one was a bit fugged - I did get an indicated 80 mph out of it once on a dual carriageway - however that resulted in me not being overtaken as often so assume true speed around 70.

What I got fed up with was the jibes from other people on where the one for the other foot was - I was 6 foot tall and it had a full length webasto type sunroof.....

Mine wasn't as quick as this 126

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhpAWI4gPao

Edited by B'stard Child on Monday 28th November 20:13

[blueg33]

moanthebairns said:

Ari said:

moanthebairns said:

so, he was driving a mark 3 Octavia. unlikely to be the vrs if it was only doing 117mph at the point of collision and his speed had been increasing for 8 minutes whilst on the phone.
Not going to be a dsg box on a taxi, it'll be manual.

So he failed to put it into neutral,
use the brakes with full force,
hit against the barrier,
turn the car off,
break the gear box,
dump it into a lower gear,
dip the clutch,

Verdict, Suicide or fking idiot.

What makes you think it was a taxi (or that a taxi couldn't be a DSG if it was)?

Not that I think your conclusion is definitely wrong...

Taxi - slang for any Octavia.

oh how it winds up the middle aged tts on bri-skoda when you refer to their vrs as being just a "fast taxi".

I actually own a vrs taxi, oh the joys of waiting at train stations to pick your mrs up while pissed folk try to get in your motor or flag you down.

Our Octavia has DSG and doesn't look like a taxi I have never seen an Octavia Scout taxi.

[Trabi601]

xjay1337 said:

Dunno, never tried. I imagine it would cut the engine but leave ignition on just like turning the ignition key off would do.

Dunno why you don't just try it yourself. I tried electronic handbrake at 70mph once. i had hoped for many skids but i ended up with a bong of disapproval as the computer said no.

I've only ever tried this in a B6 Passat - which I think was one of the earliest mainstream cars to get an electronic handbrake. (Maybe the Jag S-Type beat it? - but it was certainly the first large family / repmobile type car to get it).

I initially got the bong of disapproval, so googled for more info - if you press and hold whilst also applying the foot brake, it'll bring the car to a halt much faster than you thought was possible.

[xjay1337]

Next time I have the opportunity ill try lol

[Ari]

davepoth said:

Ari said:

This is the bit that gets me - this Police Collision Investigator seems totally clueless about cars, physics or real life. It seems like he just watched Fast & Furious a couple of times as 'training' and then said "Right, I've got it, thanks".

Even if the handbrake did lock up the rear wheels, does he seriously believe that a car travelling at 100mph+ on a dark motorway, driven by someone who, for whatever reason, thought that the cruise control was jammed on, could have simply executed a nifty one hundred mile an hour handbrake turn in order to bring the vehicle to a halt?

No, he's quite right. Think about it. If he pulled the handbrake, skidded, spun and then rolled the car the accident would take a couple of seconds to come to a halt, rather than all of the energy being absorbed very quickly by the truck. For any given speed, The longer an accident takes to stop, the less it hurts.

Well, yes, if he crashed pretty much any way rather than slamming headlong into the back of a bloody great truck, I agree, potentially more chance of dissipating the energy.

But our bimbling copper isn't talking about crashing. He's reported as saying:

...applying the handbrake could have saved Mr Gandhi's life by forcing the car's rear wheels to lock up and turn it around so it skidded backwards.

Had he said 'if Mr. Ghandi had applied the handbrake he might have crashed in a more controlled way' but he didn't. He specifically referenced actually turning the car around and skidding backwards. Like they do in the movies...

This from a Police Collision Investigator, FFS.

[TooMany2cvs]

Ari said:

This from a Police Collision Investigator, FFS.

You're assuming the journo is quoting accurately...?

[SpeedMattersNot]

On some cars a prolonged hold of the electronic handbrake at any speed will make it engage.

However, all CC systems I am aware of do not mechanically or electronically control the throttle pedal and they are all deactivated when throttle or brake pedals are depressed.

Sadly I believe this is probably a driver error. That or the floor mat lodged the pedal wide open!

[blueg33]

SpeedMattersNot said:

On some cars a prolonged hold of the electronic handbrake at any speed will make it engage.

However, all CC systems I am aware of do not mechanically or electronically control the throttle pedal and they are all deactivated when throttle or brake pedals are depressed.

Sadly I believe this is probably a driver error. That or the floor mat lodged the pedal wide open!

I have had lots of cars with cruise. None disengage when you press the throttle. Its brake or clutch pedals that disengage it.

[mjh64]

Applying the throttle when in cruise, overrides the cruise set point, when you lift off it will return to the set point speed. Most modern cars will have a message on the dash advising that cruise has been overridden.

[London424]

Ari said:

davepoth said:

Ari said:

This is the bit that gets me - this Police Collision Investigator seems totally clueless about cars, physics or real life. It seems like he just watched Fast & Furious a couple of times as 'training' and then said "Right, I've got it, thanks".

Even if the handbrake did lock up the rear wheels, does he seriously believe that a car travelling at 100mph+ on a dark motorway, driven by someone who, for whatever reason, thought that the cruise control was jammed on, could have simply executed a nifty one hundred mile an hour handbrake turn in order to bring the vehicle to a halt?

No, he's quite right. Think about it. If he pulled the handbrake, skidded, spun and then rolled the car the accident would take a couple of seconds to come to a halt, rather than all of the energy being absorbed very quickly by the truck. For any given speed, The longer an accident takes to stop, the less it hurts.

Well, yes, if he crashed pretty much any way rather than slamming headlong into the back of a bloody great truck, I agree, potentially more chance of dissipating the energy.

But our bimbling copper isn't talking about crashing. He's reported as saying:

...applying the handbrake could have saved Mr Gandhi's life by forcing the car's rear wheels to lock up and turn it around so it skidded backwards.

Had he said 'if Mr. Ghandi had applied the handbrake he might have crashed in a more controlled way' but he didn't. He specifically referenced actually turning the car around and skidding backwards. Like they do in the movies...

This from a Police Collision Investigator, FFS.

Sod the handbrake...just use the normal brake pedal! I doubt there is a car made today where even a wide open stuck throttle is enough to overcome brakes being applied.

[B'stard Child]

blueg33 said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

On some cars a prolonged hold of the electronic handbrake at any speed will make it engage.

However, all CC systems I am aware of do not mechanically or electronically control the throttle pedal and they are all deactivated when throttle or brake pedals are depressed.

Sadly I believe this is probably a driver error. That or the floor mat lodged the pedal wide open!

I have had lots of cars with cruise. None disengage when you press the throttle. Its brake or clutch pedals that disengage it.

^ WHS

[otolith]

The Mad Monk said:

deeen said:

sounds to me he just panicked and pressed harder and harder on the throttle, thinking it was the brake.

Are you serious?

I also suspect that. He's in cruise, feet off the pedals. Decides to brake. Hits the wrong pedal. Panics. Just keeps it pinned to the floor and can't work out why the car isn't stopping, but won't take his foot off it because he thinks it's the only thing stopping the car accelerating any faster. That's why I think the first thing the police should tell someone in that situation is to take their feet off the pedals.

[amancalledrob]

otolith said:

The Mad Monk said:

deeen said:

sounds to me he just panicked and pressed harder and harder on the throttle, thinking it was the brake.

Are you serious?

I also suspect that. He's in cruise, feet off the pedals. Decides to brake. Hits the wrong pedal. Panics. Just keeps it pinned to the floor and can't work out why the car isn't stopping, but won't take his foot off it because he thinks it's the only thing stopping the car accelerating any faster. That's why I think the first thing the police should tell someone in that situation is to take their feet off the pedals.

Sounds more than plausible

[SpeedMattersNot]

B'stard Child said:

blueg33 said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

On some cars a prolonged hold of the electronic handbrake at any speed will make it engage.

However, all CC systems I am aware of do not mechanically or electronically control the throttle pedal and they are all deactivated when throttle or brake pedals are depressed.

Sadly I believe this is probably a driver error. That or the floor mat lodged the pedal wide open!

I have had lots of cars with cruise. None disengage when you press the throttle. Its brake or clutch pedals that disengage it.

^ WHS

WOT they do, try it.

[The Mad Monk]

amancalledrob said:

otolith said:

The Mad Monk said:

deeen said:

sounds to me he just panicked and pressed harder and harder on the throttle, thinking it was the brake.

Are you serious?

I also suspect that. He's in cruise, feet off the pedals. Decides to brake. Hits the wrong pedal. Panics. Just keeps it pinned to the floor and can't work out why the car isn't stopping, but won't take his foot off it because he thinks it's the only thing stopping the car accelerating any faster. That's why I think the first thing the police should tell someone in that situation is to take their feet off the pedals.

Sounds more than plausible

Sigh.

I think the sad truth is that the driver decided to commit suicide. He drove as fast as he could along the motorway, until he could find a stationery HGV. Being an exhibitionist he decided to call the authorities and pretend he couldn't stop. When he found a big lorry parked up he drove into the back of it.

End of.

Sad story.

But, he topped himself, just as surely as a drug overdose or slashing his wrists.

[don4l]

otolith said:

The Mad Monk said:

deeen said:

sounds to me he just panicked and pressed harder and harder on the throttle, thinking it was the brake.

Are you serious?

I also suspect that. He's in cruise, feet off the pedals. Decides to brake. Hits the wrong pedal. Panics. Just keeps it pinned to the floor and can't work out why the car isn't stopping, but won't take his foot off it because he thinks it's the only thing stopping the car accelerating any faster. That's why I think the first thing the police should tell someone in that situation is to take their feet off the pedals.

For 8 minutes? More than 10 miles?

I don't believe it.