Football alleged abuse

Author
Discussion

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Saturday 26th November 2016
quotequote all
poo at Paul's said:
Derek Smith said:
The mods should delete alleged rather than just correct the spelling.
The people speaking up today though are alleging this, aren't they? It's not been proven yet, has it?
I think that there is little doubt that abuse of children by coaches and others did go on. There have been convictions. So I'd suggest alleged is inappropriate.

It would appear to be the hope of the ultimate optimist that these offenders have been wrongly convicted.

This is old news. It is a shame that those who suffered have felt themselves unable to say what went on in their childhood. It shows just how the victims suffer mentally.

I would assume that the FA, like the RFU which I know about, has moved on. Part of my job as Safeguarding Officer was to talk to coaches, in groups and individually, about the risks to the children. I anticipated a reaction against the nanny state, but it was just the reverse. My club's coaches were ahead of the game, making well-though-out suggestions for improving the club's response to the threats. Despite doing dozens of checks on them, asking personal details, none resented it.

I was told by my club chair that my job was to protect the children, the coaches and the club, but in that order.

Times have changed and whilst there's no hope of eliminating the chances of criminal acts, the opportunities have been reduced remarkably.


FredericRobinson

3,668 posts

231 months

Saturday 26th November 2016
quotequote all
They're some family the Bennells, this was his cousin

http://www.blackkalendar.nl/content.php?key=14554

Once released from prison he murdered again, and later hung himself

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 26th November 2016
quotequote all
I wonder if and Gary Speeds death are related, AIUI he was at one of the clubs Bennel was at

Alpinestars

13,954 posts

243 months

Saturday 26th November 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's what people are speculating about.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
Alpinestars said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's what people are speculating about.
Gary Speed said he wasn't as did Bennell.

Bennell had links throughout the coaching network so this will be far reaching.



Randy Winkman

16,021 posts

188 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
Does anyone else remember Sir Tony (Baldrick) Robinson saying something on TV (about 20 years ago) about a games teacher at his school?

Edited to add that whilst Sir Tony said a name on national TV, I suggest that anyone that replies to this post doesn't.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
Randy Winkman said:
Does anyone else remember Sir Tony (Baldrick) Robinson saying something on TV (about 20 years ago) about a games teacher at his school?
It was not so long ago that the likes of Stephen Fry would glibly mention abuse at school quite regularly.

It was almost as if it went with the territory if you were at a public school.


Even if it was exposed at the time, many families would sweep it under the carpet due to the "shame".

The bloke on Radio 5 this morning said his parents wrote numerous letters to the PFA and the FA and nothing was done. There are lots of fine words but doesn't seem to be much action.

greygoose

8,225 posts

194 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
desolate said:
It was not so long ago that the likes of Stephen Fry would glibly mention abuse at school quite regularly.

It was almost as if it went with the territory if you were at a public school.


Even if it was exposed at the time, many families would sweep it under the carpet due to the "shame".

The bloke on Radio 5 this morning said his parents wrote numerous letters to the PFA and the FA and nothing was done. There are lots of fine words but doesn't seem to be much action.
It's sad that organisations do not learn from the exposure of abuse in other areas, you would hope that the scandals of the Catholic Church etc would make the FA and football clubs skip the silence in the face of such allegations and launch proper investigations.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
greygoose said:
It's sad that organisations do not learn from the exposure of abuse in other areas, you would hope that the scandals of the Catholic Church etc would make the FA and football clubs skip the silence in the face of such allegations and launch proper investigations.
The FA apparently announced that they are doing so now.

I suppose I should be surprised that the PFA aren't being significantly more strident over this matter. They seem to be adopting a "isn't this terrible, have some free counselling" stance rather than using their considerable resources to aggressively expose the perpetrators.

316Mining

20,911 posts

246 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
desolate said:
It was not so long ago that the likes of Stephen Fry would glibly mention abuse at school quite regularly.

It was almost as if it went with the territory if you were at a public school.


Even if it was exposed at the time, many families would sweep it under the carpet due to the "shame".

The bloke on Radio 5 this morning said his parents wrote numerous letters to the PFA and the FA and nothing was done. There are lots of fine words but doesn't seem to be much action.
See I just Don't understand this. I'm not an internet warrior type, and I'm not some kind of thug. But I wouldn't be thwarted by a few unanswered letters if this was done to my kids. I'd batter the guy with a baseball bat. And I mean that. And I'm not just trying to sound like some angry man on the web. How come all these lads didn't have someOne stand up for them and stop it? And if it had happened to me, I wouldn't let them get away with doing it to other lads years later.

It's more than time that people stood up and sorted things out themselves.

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
Let's hope that there wasn't a sense that this was the price worth paying for giving their child a shot at fame and fortune.

Randy Winkman

16,021 posts

188 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
desolate said:
Randy Winkman said:
Does anyone else remember Sir Tony (Baldrick) Robinson saying something on TV (about 20 years ago) about a games teacher at his school?
It was not so long ago that the likes of Stephen Fry would glibly mention abuse at school quite regularly.

It was almost as if it went with the territory if you were at a public school.


Even if it was exposed at the time, many families would sweep it under the carpet due to the "shame".

The bloke on Radio 5 this morning said his parents wrote numerous letters to the PFA and the FA and nothing was done. There are lots of fine words but doesn't seem to be much action.
Thanks. Perhaps I should have added that the person was well known in the sports world. When I Google the 2 names I get one link that gives me enough to confirm it's not just my imagination, but no further details. Time will tell.

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
316Mining said:
It's more than time that people stood up and sorted things out themselves.
How would you go about sorting it all out?


anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
ClaphamGT3 said:
Let's hope that there wasn't a sense that this was the price worth paying for giving their child a shot at fame and fortune.
My brother was at Crewe as a young pro and was coache by Bennell, staying at his house regularly.

Coincidently so was was a chap who is now a co shareholder in a business I am involved in.

Being the sort of family we are it isn't something we would ever talk about and I can't ask my dad over a pint as he is dead. The lad at work said he was excluded as he had an attitude (he's right as he is an argumentative sod and I can't see him going along with anything he doesn't want.

The lad on the radio said he and others were picked on for being 'gay'.

Bennell just seemed like a dedicated coach to me, but I was older than my brother and would only go and watch the occasional game and wasn't living with them.

I feel sure that the PFA could expose this quickly if they had the balls.

316Mining

20,911 posts

246 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
Derek Smith said:
316Mining said:
It's more than time that people stood up and sorted things out themselves.
How would you go about sorting it all out?
If I found out my 11 year old boy was being raped by a football coach I'd do more than write a letter to the Football authorities.

What would you do?

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
316Mining said:
See I just Don't understand this. I'm not an internet warrior type, and I'm not some kind of thug. But I wouldn't be thwarted by a few unanswered letters if this was done to my kids. I'd batter the guy with a baseball bat. And I mean that. And I'm not just trying to sound like some angry man on the web. How come all these lads didn't have someOne stand up for them and stop it? And if it had happened to me, I wouldn't let them get away with doing it to other lads years later.

It's more than time that people stood up and sorted things out themselves.
Exactly what I thought, I'm the easiest person going just like my old man was but if I came back home and told my dad I had been fiddled with at football training that would of been the last time that nonce interfered with anyone, can't understand how this never happened to the perpetrator in this case.

Razor O Rourke

62 posts

89 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
These abuses are almost certainly not historical, it is bound to be going on to this day and probably involves some current household names. But what footballer still playing would go public? A few days later he would be appearing in front of 60,000 fans and the vile abuse he'd suffer would last from kick off to the final whistle.

Much the same reason players don't come out as gay.

FredericRobinson

3,668 posts

231 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
I played cricket in the late 80's / early 90's with lads who were YTS at Crewe and City, there was certainly nothing mentioned, at the time at least to me, the were rumours around football in Cheshire within a year or two though, and about more than Bennell.
This looks a carefully written piece that's been gone over thoroughly by the lawyers

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/nov/26/b...

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
316Mining said:
If I found out my 11 year old boy was being raped by a football coach I'd do more than write a letter to the Football authorities.

What would you do?
Looking at the timeline he originally got "caught" in America and it was only when he came back here that he got arrested.

Many of the kids were adults by the time they felt able to say anything.

These s prey on a certain type of person - they are weak bullies who steer clear of any kids that they think will stand up for themselves, which is why they get away with for so long.

Put this in conjunction with employers/systems that would rather brush under the carpet than address the situation and you have a recipe for a life of abuse.

He was sacked by Crewe but they didn't do anything. Those who knew the truth are at least complicit and deserve the finger pointing at them - was there involvement more than just sweeping under the carpet or did they like dark haired boys as well?

(I was ginger with freckles and habit of telling people to fk off, even when I was a kid. Even the local priests didn't want kids like me)

Derek Smith

45,514 posts

247 months

Sunday 27th November 2016
quotequote all
316Mining said:
Derek Smith said:
316Mining said:
It's more than time that people stood up and sorted things out themselves.
How would you go about sorting it all out?
If I found out my 11 year old boy was being raped by a football coach I'd do more than write a letter to the Football authorities.

What would you do?
You are the one who, by implication, heavily criticised the parents of one of the victims, suggesting it was about time they sorted things out themselves. It is easy to criticise, but I assume, by your lack of answer, that you realise that it is harder to come up with a plan of action that of itself would not be open to criticisms itself.

I doubt you are interested in what I might have done, but if you want a considered reply, I'll post it.