Fidel Castro is dead
Discussion
dandarez said:
Oh come on. It's Cuba ffs! We spent a long time going everywhere out and around Havana, some of the cars are held together, they have to be! But others are a f. delight....
I've more than a few photos of my own but most of the cars are completely irreparable garbage, esp outside Havana. It's notable that tourists main concern is that big business will take over and change will destroy this Cuban disneyland, of course that's fine if you're allowed to leave. The expats I know main concern is that the narco cartels will take over. Poverty and geography are perfect for the cartels, throw in a power vacuum and a frigging McDonalds in Parque Central will be the last of their problems.I went to Cuba, resort was fantastic and the locals were cheerful.
1. if you're local you need a licence from the government to set foot on a boat, so our coach driver had to hang around for 13 hours by the shore during a boat trip.
2. they eat sugar and 'nanas mon-sat then meat on Sunday
3. the cops are all parked up by the side of the road, because their fuel ration is 5 litres/day.
4. Tourist "Excusrsions" are run by the gov't and are designed to hoodwink you into thinking that every farmer gets by brewing small amounts of rum and selling a touch of sugar cane every now and then.
5. Cigars are big business, got a pack of 25 cigars from the fields for pennies but the branded stuff in the resort was $30+.
6.bloody everything is Russian is chinese, jeeps? nah Russian? Boeing aircraft to Havana? no chance you're taking a Tupolev!
7. It's bloody lovely there but there's a strong sense of guilt seeing how they live.
1. if you're local you need a licence from the government to set foot on a boat, so our coach driver had to hang around for 13 hours by the shore during a boat trip.
2. they eat sugar and 'nanas mon-sat then meat on Sunday
3. the cops are all parked up by the side of the road, because their fuel ration is 5 litres/day.
4. Tourist "Excusrsions" are run by the gov't and are designed to hoodwink you into thinking that every farmer gets by brewing small amounts of rum and selling a touch of sugar cane every now and then.
5. Cigars are big business, got a pack of 25 cigars from the fields for pennies but the branded stuff in the resort was $30+.
6.bloody everything is Russian is chinese, jeeps? nah Russian? Boeing aircraft to Havana? no chance you're taking a Tupolev!
7. It's bloody lovely there but there's a strong sense of guilt seeing how they live.
spaximus said:
Having just been to Cuba in the summer, it is hard for us to appreciate the situation via the west media.
Speaking with people there, who were not tourist guides the history of the island is fascinating, to say the least.
Batista was the classical dictator who ruled with fear and corruption. He was responsible for thousands of deaths and was clearly in the pay of the Mafia who saw Cuba as somewhere they could use their illegal money.
The revolution was popular with the vast majority who did not get anything from those in charge. The three leaders were, Castro, Che Guevara and Camilo Cienfuegous, the later being the choice of the people to lead them, but he died in an air crash that some still do not believe was an accident leaving the Castro's to rule, especially when Che was killed in another revolution he was fighting in.
After the revolution conditions for the poor improved and they had health care and education but no freedom. For many that was worth more than the freedom others craved. Every time they relaxed travel 50% never returned so they stopped it for every one except trusted government members.
What kept Cuba in the dark ages in many ways was Castro and the hatred of the West towards him and the sanctions did harm everywhere. In the same way as Mugabe, Castro gave every one some land to farm, but now they import food as they cannot feed themselves. Now it is China who are working with them on oil and gas projects and Spain on investing in hotels to bring in tourists.
They swapped one dictator for another type, one which for many was much better than they had. They have a lot of well educated people who can go no where and have lost the will to do better. Even though there were changes coming via Raul, they are too slow but this may accelerate those good changes.
The people there deserve the freedom promised, they deserve being part of a much wider world not just pawns in an East V West ideology battle. I hope his death gives those in charge now the courage to make the changes much quicker than they would be as it is a beautiful island with warm hearted people which is crying out for relaxation of controls.
Top post, agree 100%.Speaking with people there, who were not tourist guides the history of the island is fascinating, to say the least.
Batista was the classical dictator who ruled with fear and corruption. He was responsible for thousands of deaths and was clearly in the pay of the Mafia who saw Cuba as somewhere they could use their illegal money.
The revolution was popular with the vast majority who did not get anything from those in charge. The three leaders were, Castro, Che Guevara and Camilo Cienfuegous, the later being the choice of the people to lead them, but he died in an air crash that some still do not believe was an accident leaving the Castro's to rule, especially when Che was killed in another revolution he was fighting in.
After the revolution conditions for the poor improved and they had health care and education but no freedom. For many that was worth more than the freedom others craved. Every time they relaxed travel 50% never returned so they stopped it for every one except trusted government members.
What kept Cuba in the dark ages in many ways was Castro and the hatred of the West towards him and the sanctions did harm everywhere. In the same way as Mugabe, Castro gave every one some land to farm, but now they import food as they cannot feed themselves. Now it is China who are working with them on oil and gas projects and Spain on investing in hotels to bring in tourists.
They swapped one dictator for another type, one which for many was much better than they had. They have a lot of well educated people who can go no where and have lost the will to do better. Even though there were changes coming via Raul, they are too slow but this may accelerate those good changes.
The people there deserve the freedom promised, they deserve being part of a much wider world not just pawns in an East V West ideology battle. I hope his death gives those in charge now the courage to make the changes much quicker than they would be as it is a beautiful island with warm hearted people which is crying out for relaxation of controls.
johnfm said:
#TrudeauEulogies
Twitter having a field day
LOL
LOL
LOL
Wow what a statement.Twitter having a field day
LOL
LOL
LOL
Justin Trudeau said:
It is with deep sorrow that I learned today of the death of Cuba’s longest serving President.
“Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.
“While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.
“I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba.
“On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.”
Canadian leaders have a habit of doing this. When King Abdullah died PM Harper called him "a strong proponent of peace in the Middle East".“Fidel Castro was a larger than life leader who served his people for almost half a century. A legendary revolutionary and orator, Mr. Castro made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.
“While a controversial figure, both Mr. Castro’s supporters and detractors recognized his tremendous dedication and love for the Cuban people who had a deep and lasting affection for “el Comandante”.
“I know my father was very proud to call him a friend and I had the opportunity to meet Fidel when my father passed away. It was also a real honour to meet his three sons and his brother President Raúl Castro during my recent visit to Cuba.
“On behalf of all Canadians, Sophie and I offer our deepest condolences to the family, friends and many, many supporters of Mr. Castro. We join the people of Cuba today in mourning the loss of this remarkable leader.”
Orwell was right...
"Let a politician die, and his worst enemies will stand up on the floor of the House and utter pious lies in his honour."
Pesty said:
johnfm said:
Guardian comments section...
...f
k me. Hard to believe there really are diehard extreme leftists who really think like this.
Remember they are talking a man who had homosexuals rounded up for re education, held tortured and executed political prisoners, nearly started world war 3 and a war with D.R. And on and on. They worship him...f
k me. Hard to believe there really are diehard extreme leftists who really think like this.But trump says pussy and they lose their minds. Hilarious
zygalski said:
Pesty said:
johnfm said:
Guardian comments section...
...fk me. Hard to believe there really are diehard extreme leftists who really think like this.
Remember they are talking a man who had homosexuals rounded up for re education, held tortured and executed political prisoners, nearly started world war 3 and a war with D.R. And on and on. They worship him...f
k me. Hard to believe there really are diehard extreme leftists who really think like this.But trump says pussy and they lose their minds. Hilarious
dandarez said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
grumbledoak said:
About fifty years overdue, really. I wonder if Cuba's misery can finally end now.
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.I wonder, really do wonder, what this country (ours) would look like now if it had a similar embargo on goods and everything placed upon us for that period of time?
Esseesse said:
dandarez said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
grumbledoak said:
About fifty years overdue, really. I wonder if Cuba's misery can finally end now.
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.I wonder, really do wonder, what this country (ours) would look like now if it had a similar embargo on goods and everything placed upon us for that period of time?
Johnnytheboy said:
Esseesse said:
dandarez said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
grumbledoak said:
About fifty years overdue, really. I wonder if Cuba's misery can finally end now.
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.I wonder, really do wonder, what this country (ours) would look like now if it had a similar embargo on goods and everything placed upon us for that period of time?
The Spruce goose said:
i knew someone who escaped from cuba, it was not a pleasant place. spies on corners, minimum wages, not much choice.
but a great health care system and education.
You know I cant help but feel, despite how much we moan about both, that we have a decent health care and education system ourselves.but a great health care system and education.
But we don't all live on $25 a month, funny that.
You might say well Cuba was always less developed but it wasn't. Prior to the revolution Cuba was richer than the following economic basket cases. Japan, Italy, Spain.
What it did have was great inequality. But unfortunately, due to the nature of the revolutionaries who took power, instead of reforms to try and spread the wealth, combined with continued growth ( I.E. like most of the rest of the world in the post war period) they ended up with the system they have.
greygoose said:
To be honest you could say the same about the UK, the spies are cctv cameras, many people are on minimum wages, there may be choice but mostly it is the same crap packaged differently , not sure about the health care system and education being great though.
it would be absolutely moronic to compare the two. we are talking about totalitarianism, long prison sentences for trivial things. many people of minimum wages in the uk, yes, but not doctors, engineers highly skilled people earning 40-50 dollars per month . People not in the inner circle. maybe have a read about life in Cuba by the people and you won't make silly comments, it is hard as many are discredited.She escaped as she was able to travel to Spain, where she claimed asylum. imagine your only holiday destination are russia or china. imagine having no real freedom and under constant real surveillance, by ordinary people. listening to the us radio could land you in jail.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 27th November 15:08
Pesty said:
johnfm said:
Guardian comments section...
...fk me. Hard to believe there really are diehard extreme leftists who really think like this.
Remember they are talking a man who had homosexuals rounded up for re education, held tortured and executed political prisoners, nearly started world war 3 and a war with D.R. And on and on. They worship him...f
k me. Hard to believe there really are diehard extreme leftists who really think like this.But trump says pussy and they lose their minds. Hilarious
fblm said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.
Yes because kleptocratic dictatorship or revolutionary communism are the only 2 possible choices 
Dindoit said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.
Hundreds of thousands of people were so desperate to tell us about it they fled the country to spread the word. Presumably with excellent grammar.We will never know how Cuba might have fared if the US hadn't been hell bent on its destruction. And if the leader's paranoia and treatment of the opposition might have been tempered. The USA treatment of Cuba turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
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