Fidel Castro is dead
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Very few left thru the 60s, 70s and 80s when it was aided by the USSR. Only when that regime came to an end and life became so difficult due the the US embargo did thousands leave.
We will never know how Cuba might have fared if the US hadn't been hell bent on its destruction. And if the leader's paranoia and treatment of the opposition might have been tempered. The USA treatment of Cuba turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
So the failure of this wonderful system is because the US won't trade with them?We will never know how Cuba might have fared if the US hadn't been hell bent on its destruction. And if the leader's paranoia and treatment of the opposition might have been tempered. The USA treatment of Cuba turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Isn't it a bit of a failure of the revolution that 60 years after standing up to the US their wellbeing is still dependent on the US?
SKP555 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Very few left thru the 60s, 70s and 80s when it was aided by the USSR. Only when that regime came to an end and life became so difficult due the the US embargo did thousands leave.
We will never know how Cuba might have fared if the US hadn't been hell bent on its destruction. And if the leader's paranoia and treatment of the opposition might have been tempered. The USA treatment of Cuba turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
So the failure of this wonderful system is because the US won't trade with them?We will never know how Cuba might have fared if the US hadn't been hell bent on its destruction. And if the leader's paranoia and treatment of the opposition might have been tempered. The USA treatment of Cuba turned into a self fulfilling prophecy.
Isn't it a bit of a failure of the revolution that 60 years after standing up to the US their wellbeing is still dependent on the US?
That's why Castro tried hard to befriend America in 1959 and 1960, but they didn't want to know.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
grumbledoak said:
About fifty years overdue, really. I wonder if Cuba's misery can finally end now.
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.johnfm said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
grumbledoak said:
About fifty years overdue, really. I wonder if Cuba's misery can finally end now.
Yes, the highest adult literacy rate in the whole world and the best free health service. How they must wish for a return of the previous dictatorship.Try and disagree with this:
Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
Here, we are continually told we have the best health service in the world. Once upon a time, yeah!
In 1968 at just 18 I was told I had a several months wait for an op. I waited just 2 weeks, because at that point in time you had another option in some areas of going to a military hospital. So I opted for that and went to RAF Wroughton, Swindon, which had just changed it's name (thanks to the Queen) to the Princess Alexandria Hospital. I was in for 14 days among lots of RAF personnel. Quite an experience! Hospital demolished in 1996 thanks to defence cuts. Gave great service. All history now.
Talking about now, that same op - in/out same day. Procedures have got better, obviously. However, recovery time? Exactly the same, just do it at home. Still have to wait months though, unless you pay (of course!).
Oxford Area Health Authority issued a statement this week. When arriving at the JR Hospital please now allow at least ONE HOUR minimum to find a parking space. Free at the point of entry? Yeah, that'll be the car park. Except then you have to pay to park.
Progress, eh?
dandarez said:
I (as in previous message) have met and talked to students around Havana (ie, I was there). They (ones we spoke with, very bright, and funnily were carrying books! They just wanted 'more' books to learn more. There are lots of tales that come out about Cuba. There are lots of tales from those who simply hate Cuba.
Try and disagree with this:
Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
Here, we are continually told we have the best health service in the world. Once upon a time, yeah!
In 1968 at just 18 I was told I had a several months wait for an op. I waited just 2 weeks, because at that point in time you had another option in some areas of going to a military hospital. So I opted for that and went to RAF Wroughton, Swindon, which had just changed it's name (thanks to the Queen) to the Princess Alexandria Hospital. I was in for 14 days among lots of RAF personnel. Quite an experience! Hospital demolished in 1996 thanks to defence cuts. Gave great service. All history now.
Talking about now, that same op - in/out same day. Procedures have got better, obviously. However, recovery time? Exactly the same, just do it at home. Still have to wait months though, unless you pay (of course!).
Oxford Area Health Authority issued a statement this week. When arriving at the JR Hospital please now allow at least ONE HOUR minimum to find a parking space. Free at the point of entry? Yeah, that'll be the car park. Except then you have to pay to park.
Progress, eh?
Wtf has how crap the NHS is got to do with Cuba? That it has a good health service is wonderful. Not much use to the tens of thousands (some claim hundreds of thousands) of political prisoners, dissidents and other malcontents the regime has murdered over the last 5 decades is it? You'll be telling us the rice was absolutely delicious under the Khmer Rouge next. Get a grip. Try and disagree with this:
Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
Here, we are continually told we have the best health service in the world. Once upon a time, yeah!
In 1968 at just 18 I was told I had a several months wait for an op. I waited just 2 weeks, because at that point in time you had another option in some areas of going to a military hospital. So I opted for that and went to RAF Wroughton, Swindon, which had just changed it's name (thanks to the Queen) to the Princess Alexandria Hospital. I was in for 14 days among lots of RAF personnel. Quite an experience! Hospital demolished in 1996 thanks to defence cuts. Gave great service. All history now.
Talking about now, that same op - in/out same day. Procedures have got better, obviously. However, recovery time? Exactly the same, just do it at home. Still have to wait months though, unless you pay (of course!).
Oxford Area Health Authority issued a statement this week. When arriving at the JR Hospital please now allow at least ONE HOUR minimum to find a parking space. Free at the point of entry? Yeah, that'll be the car park. Except then you have to pay to park.
Progress, eh?
fblm said:
dandarez said:
I (as in previous message) have met and talked to students around Havana (ie, I was there). They (ones we spoke with, very bright, and funnily were carrying books! They just wanted 'more' books to learn more. There are lots of tales that come out about Cuba. There are lots of tales from those who simply hate Cuba.
Try and disagree with this:
Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
Here, we are continually told we have the best health service in the world. Once upon a time, yeah!
In 1968 at just 18 I was told I had a several months wait for an op. I waited just 2 weeks, because at that point in time you had another option in some areas of going to a military hospital. So I opted for that and went to RAF Wroughton, Swindon, which had just changed it's name (thanks to the Queen) to the Princess Alexandria Hospital. I was in for 14 days among lots of RAF personnel. Quite an experience! Hospital demolished in 1996 thanks to defence cuts. Gave great service. All history now.
Talking about now, that same op - in/out same day. Procedures have got better, obviously. However, recovery time? Exactly the same, just do it at home. Still have to wait months though, unless you pay (of course!).
Oxford Area Health Authority issued a statement this week. When arriving at the JR Hospital please now allow at least ONE HOUR minimum to find a parking space. Free at the point of entry? Yeah, that'll be the car park. Except then you have to pay to park.
Progress, eh?
Wtf has how crap the NHS is got to do with Cuba? That it has a good health service is wonderful. Not much use to the tens of thousands (some claim hundreds of thousands) of political prisoners, dissidents and other malcontents the regime has murdered over the last 5 decades is it? You'll be telling us the rice was absolutely delicious under the Khmer Rouge next. Get a grip. Try and disagree with this:
Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
Here, we are continually told we have the best health service in the world. Once upon a time, yeah!
In 1968 at just 18 I was told I had a several months wait for an op. I waited just 2 weeks, because at that point in time you had another option in some areas of going to a military hospital. So I opted for that and went to RAF Wroughton, Swindon, which had just changed it's name (thanks to the Queen) to the Princess Alexandria Hospital. I was in for 14 days among lots of RAF personnel. Quite an experience! Hospital demolished in 1996 thanks to defence cuts. Gave great service. All history now.
Talking about now, that same op - in/out same day. Procedures have got better, obviously. However, recovery time? Exactly the same, just do it at home. Still have to wait months though, unless you pay (of course!).
Oxford Area Health Authority issued a statement this week. When arriving at the JR Hospital please now allow at least ONE HOUR minimum to find a parking space. Free at the point of entry? Yeah, that'll be the car park. Except then you have to pay to park.
Progress, eh?
All the executions and torture and prisoners are ok then, all those thousands drowned at sea....Funny how those on the left turn a blind eye to these things depending on which group it is.
Assad spent more money per capita on education than we do, everybody got education and access to healthcare, plenty of hospitals yet he bad, head chopping lunatics good. Castro was fine because something something.
Assad spent more money per capita on education than we do, everybody got education and access to healthcare, plenty of hospitals yet he bad, head chopping lunatics good. Castro was fine because something something.
dandarez said:
Try and disagree with this:
Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
That isn't because there health service is so well resourced they can spare the doctors, it's because they know it impresses Western liberals. The same reason they give good treatment to health tourists. If you are an ordinary Cuban forget it.Cuba provides more medical personnel to the developing world than all the G8 countries ...combined.
And this is with a 50 year imposed embargo. It's miles from being a great place. Imagine here with that sort of imposition!
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/432680/myth-...
dandarez said:
Ok, here we go. I can still bang words out quickly.
Are you not forgetting the long standing embargo? And the fact, re health care, until very recently the Cuban life expectancy was almost on a par with us here in the UK!
We were in Cuba some years back. I remember someone telling me (here) don't wear any camouflage shorts you'll get arrested! f
king hell, the misinformation about Cuba verges on the paranoid.
Anyway, beside staying in the usual (hidden away from the reality) resorts and hotels, we also went on our tod for days to explore Havana ourselves, not with some guide or tour operater, and stayed in the famous Hotel Nacional for 3 days.
Christ, yes, there was deprivation everywhere. BUT the people I still rate as the friendliest I have ever met anywhere in the world. I have said this before, but I'll repeat it. We went off walking around Havana, and decided to venture the many back streets... we like walking, the best way to keep fit when you start knocking on. fk the gym! At first, it was more than slightly unnerving (similar situations anywhere else in the world that 'looked' like this and you'd expect to be attacked or fleeced or much worse. Here? Nah, the most we got was a bit of begging for money or goods, but not in a pushy way, they are far too clever for that - they 'know' what would happen to them! After a few days of this I realised just how safe it was. VERY safe!
Then I got ill. Long story short. Trouble down below - prostate. I really did not want to see any docs there, you know, I believed all the st said about this country. I just wanted to get back home. My wife pushed me to see someone as I got worse. And f. painful! A Friday I think it was. Going home Monday. I was that bad, I capitulated before the pain got worse, I couldn't pee anymore, and well, my misses marching me to the docs! That would have been more embarrassing 
Wow!
No booking. Just queue and wait until you can see a doc. Well, as it turned out I didn't see a doc, you see a highly qualified nurse. Spoke English. She examines you, if she thinks it needs it, she calls a Doc, who arrives... my eyes pop open
she looks more like a lady you'd dance with under the Mango tree. She could most certainly have taught a lot of young girls in the UK how not just to start a Nail Parlour but succeed! As for her high elaborate immaculate hair... 
Within mins of her seeing me (she couldn't speak a word of English) I had antibiotics in my hand and some other pills and in no uncertain terms to start them immediately. If I had still been there on Monday I would have had an ultrasound scan. A jab in the butt was available to me if needed to cope with the pain and to make the journey home as it was 10 hours. Final parting shot was 'when you get back to England you must see a doctor upon landing' to get this scan done. 'Ok, I'll make an appointment as soon as I get back'. Nurse conveys to doc and both looked at each other in total amazement and nurse says 'You HAVE to make an appointment?' They were both gobsmacked.
Anyway, back in Blighty, I did try first thing. I really did! 'Sorry, earliest you can see someone is Friday'. But it's important apparently. 'Is it an emergency?' How TF do I know, that's why I need to see a doc!' My misses wanted me to go straight to A&E but I'm a bloke! F. sitting around for hours - been there, done it.
When I did see doc, doc says 'what meds did the Cuban doc put you on?' 'These!' showing the packs. 'We'll continue with those then.' I asked then about a scan. Nah but give us a wee sample... you can guess the rest. No scan.
Later I get more problems down below, one morning in shower I feel a 'lump' inside one of my danglies! I'd read if inside it's 90% chance of that nasty f...!!! Oh st! Back to doc. He fiddles with his finger where I don't like being felt. Prostate is enlarged. I think we need to get you an ultrasound scan - oh super! how bloody long ago was it I could have had one in Cuba? F. months!!
So, unless I pay, it's now another load of weeks to pass by before I can go for a scan.
I ask the nice young nurse doing the scan while I hold my todger out of the way, ans she puts all this cold jelly everywhere, has she found anything?
Yep, another lump in your right ball. (well, she didn't exactly say that but you get the drift).
Oh fk! (that's me thinking quietly).
What happens next?
I'll pass the results onto your 'health professional' (oh save me from the pc talk!) and he or she will contact you in around 2 weeks.
2 WEEKS!
I've got to mull around wondering what the f is up with me for a fortnight?
Sorry, that's the way it works.
I just kept on until she eventually tells me they are in her opinion both benign, just epididymal cysts.
And?
If they get bigger, they can be removed.
I went home, stopped worrying. My 'health professional' never contacted me.
A few months later, both had disappeared. Completely!
Motto: don't read health st online, it can make you worry unnecessarily. ASK questions!
Oh back on topic and all those who denigrate Cuba, when I worked at a Uni years back, a young 18 year old student whom I got on really well with, died of Meningitis B. Where are we today in the UK? Still squabbling about the cost of a vaccine. Cuba had a vaccine for MenB in the 80s. Look up the vaccine VA-MENGOC-BC.
I wouldn't want to live in Cuba, that's for sure. But rather than read the st about Cuba and a lot of it is pure st, anyone would think Batista era was all love and jam.
My advice? Go there before it changes forever and ends up with a f. McLibel's on every corner.
It really was nice, in a odd sort of way, being out of touch with the 24-7 world. A country where until very recently their life expectancy was almost on a par with ours here. Think about that!
I'm definitely going back before it changes.
AND of course, don't forget, if you're a PH'r there is something to behold. Probably, once it changes, they'll all disappear.
One of them is missing out of this pic, what is it, how do you know it's taken in Cuba (Havana)?
Good health care and education for those he didn't murder.... whoopee do.Are you not forgetting the long standing embargo? And the fact, re health care, until very recently the Cuban life expectancy was almost on a par with us here in the UK!
We were in Cuba some years back. I remember someone telling me (here) don't wear any camouflage shorts you'll get arrested! f
king hell, the misinformation about Cuba verges on the paranoid. Anyway, beside staying in the usual (hidden away from the reality) resorts and hotels, we also went on our tod for days to explore Havana ourselves, not with some guide or tour operater, and stayed in the famous Hotel Nacional for 3 days.
Christ, yes, there was deprivation everywhere. BUT the people I still rate as the friendliest I have ever met anywhere in the world. I have said this before, but I'll repeat it. We went off walking around Havana, and decided to venture the many back streets... we like walking, the best way to keep fit when you start knocking on. f
k the gym! At first, it was more than slightly unnerving (similar situations anywhere else in the world that 'looked' like this and you'd expect to be attacked or fleeced or much worse. Here? Nah, the most we got was a bit of begging for money or goods, but not in a pushy way, they are far too clever for that - they 'know' what would happen to them! After a few days of this I realised just how safe it was. VERY safe!Then I got ill. Long story short. Trouble down below - prostate. I really did not want to see any docs there, you know, I believed all the s
t said about this country. I just wanted to get back home. My wife pushed me to see someone as I got worse. And f. painful! A Friday I think it was. Going home Monday. I was that bad, I capitulated before the pain got worse, I couldn't pee anymore, and well, my misses marching me to the docs! That would have been more embarrassing Wow!
No booking. Just queue and wait until you can see a doc. Well, as it turned out I didn't see a doc, you see a highly qualified nurse. Spoke English. She examines you, if she thinks it needs it, she calls a Doc, who arrives... my eyes pop open
she looks more like a lady you'd dance with under the Mango tree. She could most certainly have taught a lot of young girls in the UK how not just to start a Nail Parlour but succeed! As for her high elaborate immaculate hair... Within mins of her seeing me (she couldn't speak a word of English) I had antibiotics in my hand and some other pills and in no uncertain terms to start them immediately. If I had still been there on Monday I would have had an ultrasound scan. A jab in the butt was available to me if needed to cope with the pain and to make the journey home as it was 10 hours. Final parting shot was 'when you get back to England you must see a doctor upon landing' to get this scan done. 'Ok, I'll make an appointment as soon as I get back'. Nurse conveys to doc and both looked at each other in total amazement and nurse says 'You HAVE to make an appointment?' They were both gobsmacked.
Anyway, back in Blighty, I did try first thing. I really did! 'Sorry, earliest you can see someone is Friday'. But it's important apparently. 'Is it an emergency?' How TF do I know, that's why I need to see a doc!' My misses wanted me to go straight to A&E but I'm a bloke! F. sitting around for hours - been there, done it.
When I did see doc, doc says 'what meds did the Cuban doc put you on?' 'These!' showing the packs. 'We'll continue with those then.' I asked then about a scan. Nah but give us a wee sample... you can guess the rest. No scan.
Later I get more problems down below, one morning in shower I feel a 'lump' inside one of my danglies! I'd read if inside it's 90% chance of that nasty f...!!! Oh s
t! Back to doc. He fiddles with his finger where I don't like being felt. Prostate is enlarged. I think we need to get you an ultrasound scan - oh super! how bloody long ago was it I could have had one in Cuba? F. months!!So, unless I pay, it's now another load of weeks to pass by before I can go for a scan.
I ask the nice young nurse doing the scan while I hold my todger out of the way, ans she puts all this cold jelly everywhere, has she found anything?
Yep, another lump in your right ball. (well, she didn't exactly say that but you get the drift).
Oh f
k! (that's me thinking quietly). What happens next?
I'll pass the results onto your 'health professional' (oh save me from the pc talk!) and he or she will contact you in around 2 weeks.
2 WEEKS!
I've got to mull around wondering what the f is up with me for a fortnight?
Sorry, that's the way it works.
I just kept on until she eventually tells me they are in her opinion both benign, just epididymal cysts.
And?
If they get bigger, they can be removed.
I went home, stopped worrying. My 'health professional' never contacted me.
A few months later, both had disappeared. Completely!
Motto: don't read health s
t online, it can make you worry unnecessarily. ASK questions!Oh back on topic and all those who denigrate Cuba, when I worked at a Uni years back, a young 18 year old student whom I got on really well with, died of Meningitis B. Where are we today in the UK? Still squabbling about the cost of a vaccine. Cuba had a vaccine for MenB in the 80s. Look up the vaccine VA-MENGOC-BC.
I wouldn't want to live in Cuba, that's for sure. But rather than read the s
t about Cuba and a lot of it is pure st, anyone would think Batista era was all love and jam. My advice? Go there before it changes forever and ends up with a f. McLibel's on every corner.
It really was nice, in a odd sort of way, being out of touch with the 24-7 world. A country where until very recently their life expectancy was almost on a par with ours here. Think about that!
I'm definitely going back before it changes.
AND of course, don't forget, if you're a PH'r there is something to behold. Probably, once it changes, they'll all disappear.
One of them is missing out of this pic, what is it, how do you know it's taken in Cuba (Havana)?
Cuban Memorial
And the false equivalence coming from the leftist sympathisers - yes the previous regime was bad - but Castro was not better. Castro was murderous for the last 50 years - and his brother is continuing this legacy - how long was the previous incumbent in charge?
Mr Snrub said:
Interesting how a quick google of Cuban Hospitals brings up a very different view as the first few results
Like this http://cubanexilequarter.blogspot.co.uk/2010/12/wi...The left are just deluded.
Pesty said:
All the executions and torture and prisoners are ok then, all those thousands drowned at sea....Funny how those on the left turn a blind eye to these things depending on which group it is.
Assad spent more money per capita on education than we do, everybody got education and access to healthcare, plenty of hospitals yet he bad, head chopping lunatics good. Castro was fine because something something.
Isn't it more the case that he wasn't all bad because of something something ?Assad spent more money per capita on education than we do, everybody got education and access to healthcare, plenty of hospitals yet he bad, head chopping lunatics good. Castro was fine because something something.
There are I am sure worse leaders/dictators than he was, and there are certainly many better than he was.
Pesty said:
All the executions and torture and prisoners are ok then, all those thousands drowned at sea....Funny how those on the left turn a blind eye to these things depending on which group it is.
Look you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs and you can't build a socialist utopia without imprisoning the entire population and murdering a few tens of thousands or millions of dissenters. The glorious ends justify the means you fascist!
fblm said:
Pesty said:
All the executions and torture and prisoners are ok then, all those thousands drowned at sea....Funny how those on the left turn a blind eye to these things depending on which group it is.
Look you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs and you can't build a socialist utopia without imprisoning the entire population and murdering a few tens of thousands or millions of dissenters. The glorious ends justify the means you fascist!I have relatives through marriage that are Cuban. The Cubans in Miami see Castro as their Hitler. Thousands jailed or butchered for having different political views.
Many of you are are unaware but individual US startes have long traded with Cuba. My state has long had sugar and farm equipment dealings with them. The Feds discourage but did not disallow. Nationally sanctioned trade is not allowed.
Thel latest anger was that Obama announced easing of the conflict without demanding any concessions whatsoever. Most of us are all for opening up Cuba, the lives of those people would improve vastly. The money that Miami-based Cubans would bring to bear in investing in businesses alone would create a boom. Trump wants to roll back what Obama did and make Cuba give a little in the way of freeing political prisoners and other human rights concessions before opening ties.
Many of you are are unaware but individual US startes have long traded with Cuba. My state has long had sugar and farm equipment dealings with them. The Feds discourage but did not disallow. Nationally sanctioned trade is not allowed.
Thel latest anger was that Obama announced easing of the conflict without demanding any concessions whatsoever. Most of us are all for opening up Cuba, the lives of those people would improve vastly. The money that Miami-based Cubans would bring to bear in investing in businesses alone would create a boom. Trump wants to roll back what Obama did and make Cuba give a little in the way of freeing political prisoners and other human rights concessions before opening ties.
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