Fidel Castro is dead
Discussion
https://iea.org.uk/cuba-after-castro-democratisati...
Interesting suggestion on the IEA website that even if Cuba did accept free elections democratic with a free press etc. This wouldn't help unless they ditched communism as well, since it's communism that's keeping them poor not dictatorship. What strikes me though is whether a govt with a free press and needing to win elections in order to stay in power would try to keep running communism v1.0 or whether public pressure would make this impossible.
Interesting suggestion on the IEA website that even if Cuba did accept free elections democratic with a free press etc. This wouldn't help unless they ditched communism as well, since it's communism that's keeping them poor not dictatorship. What strikes me though is whether a govt with a free press and needing to win elections in order to stay in power would try to keep running communism v1.0 or whether public pressure would make this impossible.
XM5ER said:
Capitalist spark plugsPacman1978 said:
Not to speak ill of the dead, but good riddance.. hopefully his brother and anyone else of the same ilk are not long behind him. Never understood why so many held a murderous dictator in such high regard?
Because they vaguely remember it was cool when they were at school to have a Che poster on their bedroom wall and upset mummy and daddy by wearing a gdr jacket and pretending to be communist revolutionaries. Now the only thing Dave from accounts can remember is some thing someone who went there once told him about them having great healthcare, or something.RedTrident said:
And in the end the good old US of A failed to overthrow him, failed to murder him and failed through sanctions to have enough Cubans rebel against him.
Im certain he did some horrible things as I'm certain he came in to power and stopped some horrible things from continuing to happen.
One of the best ways of summarising it.Im certain he did some horrible things as I'm certain he came in to power and stopped some horrible things from continuing to happen.
Fidel was no angel by a long shot but considering how Cuba got screwed over continuously and exploited over the years he is arguably one of the best things to happen to Cuba.
Remember that before him only 5% of the Cuban population actually had any wealth, of which quite a few fled to Miami. What was worse was that the rest were living in dire conditions with a terrible death and stillborn rate and that is before you even get to people reading or writing.
Before? Almost all Cubans were slaves who were exploited by whatever power were in. In truth, I reckon the USA were pissed because of course they lost a source of cheap good despite acquiring them through dubious means as well as getting up to no good over there.
Back in the Age of Decadence (Batista's time) it was perfectly acceptable for an American to dial out for an underage prostitute, sorry, Mullata from Miami Airport and then have her ready for when they landed. That's before you get to all of the corrupt casinos.
Derek Smith said:
What kept Castro in power for so long was the USA's response. Decades of embargoes was unlikely to change the population's views enough to overthrow him. Not that that was what the USA wanted. The support for the various military dictators that went before, invasions, the attempts to kill him, all showed the dark side of democracy.
Like him or loathe him, he was a political giant of his time. I think history will be kind to him, especially in comparison to what went before.
I've not been to Cuba but a couple of mates went for a stag do for a second marriage, this around 10-15 years ago. They loved the place although they had to emphasise they were Irish and not Americans.
His brother will, he said, stand down in a year or so, presumably to allow elections.
Fair statement.Like him or loathe him, he was a political giant of his time. I think history will be kind to him, especially in comparison to what went before.
I've not been to Cuba but a couple of mates went for a stag do for a second marriage, this around 10-15 years ago. They loved the place although they had to emphasise they were Irish and not Americans.
His brother will, he said, stand down in a year or so, presumably to allow elections.
I went to Cuba last year and toured quite a bit of the place. Maybe I should do a thread about it. In short
-The people were lovely and knowledgeable
-OTOH alot of them were poor despite being healthy with strange economic issues. A tour guide earns more than a doctor or a teacher for example. There are two currences and the locals can only use the local currency which is worthless compared to the CUC, which is pegged against the dollar. You can guess how the tour guides are tipped
-The food was very similar wherever you went, and I did travel about.
-The scenery was just stunning
-There was a bit too much propaganda in a number of places, away from the touristy places anyway.
-While people love to talk about the American cars, not many will talk about how almost all of them run Lada engines, and even then they are not running too well.
The cars really do symbolise Cuba. Isolate from the rest of the world but despite "no hay" (There isn't any (of anything)) they made do and mended. I do hope that situation changes for the better but as always it will take time.
fblm said:
Because they vaguely remember it was cool when they were at school to have a Che poster on their bedroom wall and upset mummy and daddy by wearing a gdr jacket and pretending to be communist revolutionaries. Now the only thing Dave from accounts can remember is some thing someone who went there once told him about them having great healthcare, or something.
Do your research on times before him, preferably not from American publications ; they will be swayed after all. There is plenty of information out there. While Castro didn't possibly be the best thing for Cuba he was alot better than his predecessors before him. Previous attempts at people trying to do the revolutionise the dire state of the country generally resulted in anarchy due to them having no resources or capital, or being quashed by the powers that bad, and still exploiting the nation. There is a good reason why many Cubans have yellowish skin, and it is not down to their livers packing up or getting a tan. It is a reflection of their slavery heritage.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 5th December 14:25
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 5th December 14:27
Mr Snrub said:
XM5ER said:
Capitalist spark plugsotolith said:
It's quite terrifying to read the hagiography of Castro from some in the UK and realise that their value system would include having you silenced, imprisoned or murdered as acceptable means to their political ends.
His predecessors were no different? Batista used to openly kill people on the streets, and to add insult to injury there was no health care system to speak of. For the few haves sure they have a ball. For the vast majority they were living in poverty and famine far away from the cities.I guess the slavery was fine as were the many mobsters offering out young girls to sordid tourists while the authorities turned a blind eye? After all, the Americans are nice people...
As said before, I'm no fan of Castro but history has never treated Cuba kindly. Castro at least took one step ; it was not like the West were going to step in to help Cuba out...
SebringMan said:
His predecessors were no different?
That was half a century ago, and I wouldn't think much of anyone singing their praises either. The likes of Livingstone, who seem to consider whether a given nasty South American b
d's crimes against humanity were forgivable depends on whether or not the US backed him (cf. Pinochet) are nauseating. SebringMan said:
His predecessors were no different? Batista...
No one is defending Batista. His rule might well have justified a revolution but I invite you to explain why the population needed to be repressed by a tyrannical regime for a further 60 years. Ok it was never as brutal as the Khymer Rouge or the USSR but dissenting voices have always been silenced with a bullet or life in prison. Personally, like a good Cuban friend of mine, I'll take my chances in the west thanks.*bump*
The Castro era in Cuba is over.
“Cuba's lawmakers say Miguel Díaz-Canel is sole candidate to succeed Raúl Castro, bringing family's rule to an end”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-4381...
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