Quitaly - the Italians are next
Discussion
Enricogto said:
Andy Zarse said:
matsoc said:
Anyway about the Euro I am for remain, I hope there is no way we are going back to our currency. Yes, it will bring back more jobs and growth but being in the Euro has created a postive filter and fueled expansions of the best companies. I work in a company that 10 years was 10 times smaller and had factories just in Italy, now has factories all over Europe and also in India and Brazil. Acquisitions wouldn't have been possible with the old lira currency. Yes, in the mean time a quarter of Italian Industries no longer exist but the best survived and grew.
An interesting point of view, although quite selfish if I might say so. So you don't care about your fellow Italian citizens' lives being destroyed, the mass unemployment, the lost jobs, the personal misery, that the youngest and brightest are forced to leave and find work abroad, the political upheaval which threatens to break the nation in half? And all caused by the Euro doomsday machine...Still, so long as you're okay what does it matter?
The long lost jobs are mostly related to productions and industries that in the XXI century are no longer those of a 1st world economy. In a similar fashion you could then argue that welsh miners' jobs were a victim of the resolution by Thatcher to maintain the pound instead of fully adopting the Euro? The answer is no, and similarly you could argue that all they issues you mentioned have always been there, just hidden by the ability to devalue the currency at will. A bit like removing a steroids treatment makes autoimmune diseases manifest. The solution is to change, reform and innovate, all things that are possible within the EU.
One of the things we need, for instance, is an overall better education: there are some good schools and universities but they are too few: many people just turn 25 without being able to do or knowing anything, there can't be a job for them.
Enricogto said:
Andy Zarse said:
matsoc said:
Anyway about the Euro I am for remain, I hope there is no way we are going back to our currency. Yes, it will bring back more jobs and growth but being in the Euro has created a postive filter and fueled expansions of the best companies. I work in a company that 10 years was 10 times smaller and had factories just in Italy, now has factories all over Europe and also in India and Brazil. Acquisitions wouldn't have been possible with the old lira currency. Yes, in the mean time a quarter of Italian Industries no longer exist but the best survived and grew.
An interesting point of view, although quite selfish if I might say so. So you don't care about your fellow Italian citizens' lives being destroyed, the mass unemployment, the lost jobs, the personal misery, that the youngest and brightest are forced to leave and find work abroad, the political upheaval which threatens to break the nation in half? And all caused by the Euro doomsday machine...Still, so long as you're okay what does it matter?
The long lost jobs are mostly related to productions and industries that in the XXI century are no longer those of a 1st world economy. In a similar fashion you could then argue that welsh miners' jobs were a victim of the resolution by Thatcher to maintain the pound instead of fully adopting the Euro? The answer is no, and similarly you could argue that all they issues you mentioned have always been there, just hidden by the ability to devalue the currency at will. A bit like removing a steroids treatment makes autoimmune diseases manifest. The solution is to change, reform and innovate, all things that are possible within the EU.
Change, reformation and innovation are also quite possible outside of the EU and without needing to comply with the grand plan of the EU, which appears to be prepared to sacrifice the Southern European countries to poverty.
REALIST123 said:
Change, reformation and innovation are also quite possible outside of the EU and without needing to comply with the grand plan of the EU, which appears to be prepared to sacrifice the Southern European countries to poverty.
They were most insistent........
I remain unconvinced
SKP555 said:
They definitely should quit. Even the dire numbers understate the impact the single currency has had on many Italians.
They are but a (very likely) bank collapse away from being the next Greece.
It's not looking good is it!They are but a (very likely) bank collapse away from being the next Greece.
http://news.sky.com/story/italy-referendum-result-...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/02/investing/italy-re...
https://www.ft.com/content/a24a20e2-b711-11e6-961e...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36708357
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-02...
Monday could prove catastrophic for the EU, the Austrian election is on Sunday as well!
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/739495/EU-end-...
bazza white said:
If things go tits up with Italy and Austria wonder if the Brussels will comeback to the UK with a better deal to remain. The Germans are a stubborn bunch mind.
The negotiations will be even harder - the votes in Austria and Italy don't mean Auxit and Quitaly but it means that they'll be thinking about it, so it's even more important to make it a hard job to leave. bazza white said:
If things go tits up with Italy and Austria wonder if the Brussels will comeback to the UK with a better deal to remain.
Have you learned nothing?
From Peking to Pretoria by way of Moscow and Bahrain every entrenched elite has responded to a challenge to it's power in the same way: by digging in its heels and redoubling its efforts to suppress opposition and blame far right/left/liberal subversive elements for the fact that they have been well and truly rumbled.
We've had the same here since the Brexit vote and it started with rioting in the US the day after Trump won the Presidential election.
The EU will be exactly the same. Their response to the Brexit vote was to immediately call for a single state with am army. Just reflect on that a minute.
Italy, Austria, Holland and any other country in their project can tell them time and time again that they don't share their EU vision the response will always be the same - more EU, more centralisation, less democracy.
If the public can't be conned they will be ignored. No wake up call will reach these people.
catso said:
Italy has a much stronger manufacturing sector than Greece, so I doubt it.
when I used to go to Italy years ago the North and the South had very different ideas on how the tax system worked. The North thought most of their taxes went South and the South thought they needed more help. The tax incentives given to the South meant Factories would set up for 3 years under Grant go bust and change name with the same staff and take even more grants. The Country is deeply divided on Taxation johnxjsc1985 said:
when I used to go to Italy years ago the North and the South had very different ideas on how the tax system worked. The North thought most of their taxes went South and the South thought they needed more help. The tax incentives given to the South meant Factories would set up for 3 years under Grant go bust and change name with the same staff and take even more grants. The Country is deeply divided on Taxation
Technically speaking that would be corruption, upon which the country is also deeply divided north to south. johnxjsc1985 said:
when I used to go to Italy years ago the North and the South had very different ideas on how the tax system worked. The North thought most of their taxes went South and the South thought they needed more help. The tax incentives given to the South meant Factories would set up for 3 years under Grant go bust and change name with the same staff and take even more grants. The Country is deeply divided on Taxation
Not massively unlike this country.
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