Brexit, great news!

[Pan Pan Pan]

The bottom line in this, is that as far as the EU is concerned the UK is already no longer a member of the EU, and cannot attend EU meetings.

[ATG]

s2art said:

0a said:

The big question is what's next for the EU?

They just lost their globally most influential country by far, and will now need to redistribute the UK's net contributions. This will be very painful indeed.

Not sure if the UK net 10-11 billion contrib would be that problematic. Germany alone could take up the slack. (not that they would want to). The big loss, as you say, is our soft power, hard power, intelligence capability and global influenced.

Quite. Those banging on about the significance of UK net contributions don't seem to have much grasp of the relative size of the EU budget, the EU and UK economy, tax take, etc.

Those EU members favouring free markets, decentralisation and an outward-looking stance have lost a major ally. I expect that camp will still hold sway fairly easily, falling back on their vetos as a last resort, but it is still damaging.

In terms of global influence, Germany has huge soft power. It's relationship with Russia is particularly important. And France is a major and active global player, particularly in the Middle East and Africa ... plus its seat on the UN Security Council, arsenal of nukes.

The UK departure's most significant impact from a global perspective will be increasing the distance between the USA and the EU, weakening the Anglo-American position and creating a more multi-polar world. Whether that is for the better or worse, I'm not sure. In the short-run, the potential lunacy of a Trump administration will be more important anyway.

[Esseesse]

Next European elections are in 2019.

If May really does stall as some expect it'll be interesting to see what happens then.

[Piersman2]

ATG said:

Quite. Those banging on about the significance of UK net contributions don't seem to have much grasp of the relative size of the EU budget, the EU and UK economy, tax take, etc.

Those EU members favouring free markets, decentralisation and an outward-looking stance have lost a major ally. I expect that camp will still hold sway fairly easily, falling back on their vetos as a last resort, but it is still damaging.

In terms of global influence, Germany has huge soft power. It's relationship with Russia is particularly important. And France is a major and active global player, particularly in the Middle East and Africa ... plus its seat on the UN Security Council, arsenal of nukes.

The UK departure's most significant impact from a global perspective will be increasing the distance between the USA and the EU, weakening the Anglo-American position and creating a more multi-polar world. Whether that is for the better or worse, I'm not sure. In the short-run, the potential lunacy of a Trump administration will be more important anyway.

And if we have the diplomacy to align and temper it, it could be very beneficial to the UK. Could be!

[Phud]

Pan Pan Pan said:

The bottom line in this, is that as far as the EU is concerned the UK is already no longer a member of the EU, and cannot attend EU meetings.

Yet expects the UK to fund this club

[Guybrush]

Phud said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

The bottom line in this, is that as far as the EU is concerned the UK is already no longer a member of the EU, and cannot attend EU meetings.

Yet expects the UK to fund this club

Surely, if the EU is excluding us in that way, they'll refuse any further financial contributions from us, or at least offer a reduction...

[Einion Yrth]

Guybrush said:

Surely, if the EU is excluding us in that way, they'll refuse any further financial contributions from us, or at least offer a reduction...

You should do stand up.

[bad company]

Pan Pan Pan said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

Who can blame them. If I were them, I wouldn't want us there either.

We should be on the equivalent of gardening leave....we officially haven't gone yet but don't bother turning up in the meantime because we're well rid of you.

I don't blame them at all, after all, they are only doing what Theresa May has been criticized for doing, namely playing her leaving the EU cards close to her chest.
But the underlying joy of this, is that as far as the EU is concerned, the UK is already NOT a member of the EU!

So why are we still paying for membership? There is no 'gardening leave' as we haven't resigned yet.

[Mrr T]

Pan Pan Pan said:

As touched on elsewhere it seems that Prime Minister May has already been excluded from several EU meetings (In which as some have pointed out, she should have been included, as technically the UK is still a member state), with the latest, being a ban on her attending the EU end of year meeting and dinner.
This is good news, because it shows that as far as the EU is concerned, the UK is already no longer a member of the EU `club'

Non story posted by team leave who still cannot be bothered to do any research.

There are formal EU Council of Europe meeting. The UK has not and cannot be excluded from these while the UK is a member of the EU.

There are then meetings of EU country leaders and normally Tusk and Junker. These meeting have no formal rights within the EU. Who is invited or not invited is up to the host nation and those attending. Not unnaturally May is no longer invited to these meeting. I assume she would prefer it that way. Something about kitchens and parties comes to mind.

[cayman-black]

The arrogance of the EU never fails to surprise me!

[Pan Pan Pan]

Mrr T said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

As touched on elsewhere it seems that Prime Minister May has already been excluded from several EU meetings (In which as some have pointed out, she should have been included, as technically the UK is still a member state), with the latest, being a ban on her attending the EU end of year meeting and dinner.
This is good news, because it shows that as far as the EU is concerned, the UK is already no longer a member of the EU `club'

Non story posted by team leave who still cannot be bothered to do any research.

There are formal EU Council of Europe meeting. The UK has not and cannot be excluded from these while the UK is a member of the EU.

There are then meetings of EU country leaders and normally Tusk and Junker. These meeting have no formal rights within the EU. Who is invited or not invited is up to the host nation and those attending. Not unnaturally May is no longer invited to these meeting. I assume she would prefer it that way. Something about kitchens and parties comes to mind.

You can twist and squirm as much as you like. The bottom line is that May has already been excluded from several EU meetings, that had the UK not been leaving the club, she would have attended. The end of year EU meeting and dinner being just the latest.
You can try to conflate this or any EU meeting as just kitchens and parties, but at least the EU recognizes the result of the UK referendum even if the bed wetting un democratic whining remainers do not.
As far as the EU is concerned the UK is OUT of the club.
Only the Supreme court case issue now, and then it will be out of the door.

[Pan Pan Pan]

ATG said:

s2art said:

0a said:

The big question is what's next for the EU?

They just lost their globally most influential country by far, and will now need to redistribute the UK's net contributions. This will be very painful indeed.

Not sure if the UK net 10-11 billion contrib would be that problematic. Germany alone could take up the slack. (not that they would want to). The big loss, as you say, is our soft power, hard power, intelligence capability and global influenced.

Quite. Those banging on about the significance of UK net contributions don't seem to have much grasp of the relative size of the EU budget, the EU and UK economy, tax take, etc.

Those EU members favouring free markets, decentralisation and an outward-looking stance have lost a major ally. I expect that camp will still hold sway fairly easily, falling back on their vetos as a last resort, but it is still damaging.

In terms of global influence, Germany has huge soft power. It's relationship with Russia is particularly important. And France is a major and active global player, particularly in the Middle East and Africa ... plus its seat on the UN Security Council, arsenal of nukes.

The UK departure's most significant impact from a global perspective will be increasing the distance between the USA and the EU, weakening the Anglo-American position and creating a more multi-polar world. Whether that is for the better or worse, I'm not sure. In the short-run, the potential lunacy of a Trump administration will be more important anyway.

Those who bang on about how little the UK contributes to the EU don't seem to remember that after Germany, the UK is the next greatest net contributor of funds into the EU budget/coffers. Or that many EU countries (an alarmingly large number which have basket case economies) don't contribute at all, and only take cash out of EU coffers. Without the UK`s contributions Germany will have to carry many of those countries using its taxpayers cash. How long do you think the German people will be happy to pay for all those countries which draw out, more than they contribute? Do you think even France can, make up the shortfall? Many EU countries including Greece, Italy, Spain, amongst others have serious financial and unemployment problems, and Germany cannot, and in all probability will not support them all.

[PurpleMoonlight]

No point in May going anyway.

She would only likely be the but of the jokes on the farce that triggering A50 has become for her ....

[///ajd]

Pan Pan Pan said:

As touched on elsewhere it seems that Prime Minister May has already been excluded from several EU meetings (In which as some have pointed out, she should have been included, as technically the UK is still a member state), with the latest, being a ban on her attending the EU end of year meeting and dinner.
This is good news, because it shows that as far as the EU is concerned, the UK is already no longer a member of the EU `club'

So the diminishing of UK influence with our closest neighbours and largest trading bloc is good news?

And you wonder about those labels......

[SKP555]

Good. The European politicians May should be most interested in are those in the Netherlands, Hungary, Italy and elsewhere see which way the wind is blowing and help bring about an orderly dissolution of this mess and a straightforward transition to democracy.

[philv]

Doesn't she as our leader/representative have a right to attend?

Wouldn't this be breach of contract?

We can now consider ourselves out of tne EU and any related contracts/obligations because of thos breach?

Tne EU really are a bunch of childish tossers.

[Pan Pan Pan]

///ajd said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

As touched on elsewhere it seems that Prime Minister May has already been excluded from several EU meetings (In which as some have pointed out, she should have been included, as technically the UK is still a member state), with the latest, being a ban on her attending the EU end of year meeting and dinner.
This is good news, because it shows that as far as the EU is concerned, the UK is already no longer a member of the EU `club'

So the diminishing of UK influence with our closest neighbours and largest trading bloc is good news?

And you wonder about those labels......

How can almost nothing be diminished? The UK had almost zero influence in the EU, despite being its second greatest net contributor. The EU only ever wanted UK taxpayers cash. but not the UK`s opinion on matters, which it ignored far more times, than it ever listened to.

[bad company]

PurpleMoonlight said:

No point in May going anyway.

She would only likely be the but of the jokes on the farce that triggering A50 has become for her ....

You mean she has said very little and not shown her hand? Sounds pretty shrewd to me.

[PurpleMoonlight]

bad company said:

You mean she has said very little and not shown her hand? Sounds pretty shrewd to me.

No.

[///ajd]

Pan Pan Pan said:

///ajd said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

As touched on elsewhere it seems that Prime Minister May has already been excluded from several EU meetings (In which as some have pointed out, she should have been included, as technically the UK is still a member state), with the latest, being a ban on her attending the EU end of year meeting and dinner.
This is good news, because it shows that as far as the EU is concerned, the UK is already no longer a member of the EU `club'

So the diminishing of UK influence with our closest neighbours and largest trading bloc is good news?

And you wonder about those labels......

How can almost nothing be diminished? The UK had almost zero influence in the EU, despite being its second greatest net contributor. The EU only ever wanted UK taxpayers cash. but not the UK`s opinion on matters, which it ignored far more times, than it ever listened to.

I don't agree with that of course.

Our influence over the EU has been manifest - Thatch sorted them out in the 80s to create the single market. Our idea! And now we might leave it, though most likely not. Over the years we have steered the EU to protect our interests. We won't be doing that anymore - some think that won't matter. I am of the opinion it will, especially for the single market.

When it comes to global diplomacy, we (through Boris) are an international laughing stock with greatly damaged reputation and influence.