Under 2 years service - Can they dismiss you anyway?

Under 2 years service - Can they dismiss you anyway?

Author
Discussion

HannsG

Original Poster:

3,031 posts

133 months

Friday 2nd December 2016
quotequote all
Hi,

Mate of mine is going through a Personal Improvement Plan and now it's got to capability with a written warning.

He has been told to consider his position and avoid the pain of having dismissal on his reference.

Is there any point in him fighting it as he has been there only just over one year.

HannsG

Original Poster:

3,031 posts

133 months

Friday 2nd December 2016
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
He has been offered to resign and work notice for 6 months. He is far from rubbish and it's a tad unfair or be honest as it's a huge personality clash with his boss.

My advice to him was to stick it out as being dismissed does not go on a reference. Then again what do I know.

He is contemplating resigning next week and looking over the six months.

I agree on the PIP he is exhausted

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Friday 2nd December 2016
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He has very few rights whatsoever under 2 years save for discrimination and whistleblowing.

Monkeylegend

26,227 posts

230 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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HannsG said:
Hi,

Mate of mine is going through a Personal Improvement Plan and now it's got to capability with a written warning.

He has been told to consider his position and avoid the pain of having dismissal on his reference.

Is there any point in him fighting it as he has been there only just over one year.
Is this the new job you took just over a year ago at Director level? If so that might make a difference to negotiating a severance package of some sort.

bitchstewie

50,810 posts

209 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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If they want him gone he's gone, PIP is just a legal way of being able to say they did it by the book IMO.

More so in roles where results aren't easily measurable i.e. you have a target of X and you achieved X + 1.

xjay1337

15,966 posts

117 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
HannsG said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
He has been offered to resign and work notice for 6 months. He is far from rubbish and it's a tad unfair or be honest as it's a huge personality clash with his boss.

My advice to him was to stick it out as being dismissed does not go on a reference. Then again what do I know.

He is contemplating resigning next week and looking over the six months.

I agree on the PIP he is exhausted
Legally they can do pretty much whatever they want in the first 2 years.
Best of to leave while he can, if he's been offered work notice for 6 months I'd take that, fairly easy to find work in that time scale!

Bosses can be bds, had same issue with a previous, I just left in the end. Shame as I really liked the company aside from him..

williaa68

1,527 posts

165 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
HannsG said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
He has been offered to resign and work notice for 6 months. He is far from rubbish and it's a tad unfair or be honest as it's a huge personality clash with his boss.

My advice to him was to stick it out as being dismissed does not go on a reference. Then again what do I know.

He is contemplating resigning next week and looking over the six months.

I agree on the PIP he is exhausted
It's not necessarily correct that being dismissed doesn't go on a reference. "Reason for leaving" is a fairly common question.

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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HannsG said:
He has been offered to resign and work notice for 6 months. He is far from rubbish and it's a tad unfair or be honest as it's a huge personality clash with his boss.
Six months' notice? That seems a little excessive.

bitchstewie

50,810 posts

209 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
davepoth said:
Six months' notice? That seems a little excessive.
Bit of a mixed message too isn't it? We don't think you're very good at what you do but we want you to stick around for six months confused

21TonyK

11,494 posts

208 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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Guarantee as soon as the OP(?) finds a new job the notice period will be considered served. It sounds like the employer is essentially saying we're giving you six months notice of your termination so leave before then.

Simpler and probably cheaper than going through the motions of sacking under company terms.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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bhstewie said:
davepoth said:
Six months' notice? That seems a little excessive.
Bit of a mixed message too isn't it? We don't think you're very good at what you do but we want you to stick around for six months confused
That's probably what's in the contract. (It's common for Senior managers,Directors to have relatively long notice period).

Alternatively they might have offered 6 months full pay as a sweetener for OP's mate to leave voluntarily, rather than to be "managed out" as it were.


HannsG

Original Poster:

3,031 posts

133 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
Countdown said:
That's probably what's in the contract. (It's common for Senior managers,Directors to have relatively long notice period).

Alternatively they might have offered 6 months full pay as a sweetener for OP's mate to leave voluntarily, rather than to be "managed out" as it were.
Hi, he has a 3 month notice in his contract but it seems he was offered an extension to 6 in order to find a job.

He is capable and can do the job, however I think circumstances outside his work meant he had to be pulled up. Behaviour etc.

I spoke with him today and he is going to go in on Tuesday and offer them 6 months.

At least he then has some security.

battered

4,088 posts

146 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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He needs to do a deal and get out. Up to 2 years they can fire you because there are fairies in the garden. I'm serious. As someone else said, other than discrimination you can be fired for anything. There isn't even a reqmt to back up your story. Yes, I do know what I am talking about because it happened to me and I took legal advice. I had a road accident a few years ago, I was f*ed. After 2 or 3 months on the sick, 2 managers came round and fired me. The conversation went:
"We're sorry, we have to let you go"
"Why?"
"We've had a complaint"
"Of what, and from whom?"
"We don't have to say"
"So how can I defend myself?"
"You can't. You are no longer employed by the company, we have come to collect the car and serve you notice"
"Why has it taken 3 months to act upon this complaint? I don't imagine that any complaint has only just landed, that anyone sat around and said nothing for 3 months"
"We don't have to say".
They had clearly had legal advice, I took this conversation to my lawyer who was dealing with the road accident part of the claim. His initial stance was "They can't do that" but a conversation with the employment law department straightened him out. They can do what the f* they like for 2 years. In my case they were scared sh*tless that I would play the disability card, so they wanted out PDQ. By inventing a complaint that they don't have to back up, this gave them an out without having to fart about with medical examinations. They knew that as a straight white male nobody was discriminating against me. Suck it up, get out. There is no employment protection in the UK.

aka_kerrly

12,416 posts

209 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
HannsG said:
He has been offered to resign and work notice for 6 months. He is far from rubbish and it's a tad unfair or be honest as it's a huge personality clash with his boss.

My advice to him was to stick it out
bhstewie said:
Bit of a mixed message too isn't it? We don't think you're very good at what you do but we want you to stick around for six months confused
I am also confused by this, if the chap is "far from rubbish" then it shouldn't be too difficult to obtain a new job without having to rely too heavily on one reference from the previous employer.

I'd also not want to stick around for 6 months working for someone I didn't get on with, I was put in that situation a year or so ago when a change of directors and an apparent incompatibility between me and the new director forced me to quit for the sake of my sanity and not having to be dragged down a somewhat suspect disciplinary route.

bitchstewie

50,810 posts

209 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
Countdown said:
That's probably what's in the contract. (It's common for Senior managers,Directors to have relatively long notice period).
When employers want you gone it might cost them some money but generally speaking they don't ask you to work for them - that's what's confusing.

"Here's the money, now go" isn't the same as dragging it out making you work for them when neither party seems to actually want that, which is what the OP suggested his friend is being asked to do, is just weird.

Countdown

39,690 posts

195 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
quotequote all
bhstewie said:
When employers want you gone it might cost them some money but generally speaking they don't ask you to work for them - that's what's confusing.

"Here's the money, now go" isn't the same as dragging it out making you work for them when neither party seems to actually want that, which is what the OP suggested his friend is being asked to do, is just weird.
I agree - I assumed it would be 6 months "gardening leave".


Vaud

50,291 posts

154 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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Better to seek a compromise agreement with say 1 month worked and a lump sum payment.

Jasandjules

69,825 posts

228 months

Saturday 3rd December 2016
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Vaud said:
Better to seek a compromise agreement with say 1 month worked and a lump sum payment.
This. 5 months payment for "loss of office" means it can be tax free up to 30k....