Daughter of EU official raped and murdered by Migrant

[anonymous-user]

blindswelledrat said:

Einion Yrth said:

Digga said:

blindswelledrat said:

zygalski said:

An immigrant is 5 times more likely to be a rapist than a national.
I read that somewhere...

Damning evidence, for sure. You have me convinced that immigrants are all rapists.

It seems a rather incredible statement to make, without links to a single scrap of supporting evidence.

It was Zygalski, ergo he's trolling.

One man's 'trolling' is another man's sarcastic remark to make an exaggerated point.
You must be a really sensitive flower if you think that any objection to a stupid remark is 'trolling'.

I think the 5x figure was from the Swedish version of the UK ONS about 15 years ago, but then they stopped recording ethnicity/nationality in crime stats.

If anyone has the patience/language the reports will probably still be available from the government department that made them.

[B'stard Child]

Jockman said:

Loyly said:

An astute observation about this 'new breed' of PH'ER seems only to revel in hanging round the NPE forum, pushing lefty politics and stifling debate. They don't even seem interested in cars or bikes.

Hell of a lot of interest in buses, though.

Big red ones

Sorry can't let that slip into the background without at least acknowledgement that it made I laff

[Looket]

dandarez said:

'course you did.

What about murder?
Finland is going up in the stakes of murder of females. Immigrants or nationals?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/04/thre...

Allow me to quote myself from the Sweden thread:

Looket said:

Luckily we do have an old 2005 paper (investigating 1997-2001 figures) by BRÅ that concluded that immigrants are 410% more likely to rape or attempt rape than native Swedes.

Educate yourself here. Pay special attention to pages 63 and 67.

In BRÅ 1996:2 immigrants committed 38% of all rapes, children of immigrants 13% of all rapes, and illegals 10% of all rapes. Swedes committed 39% of all rapes. I'll let you do the math and work out the overrepresentation.

In 2008 Svenskarnas Parti investigated all rape cases in court. 60.6% of all convicted rapists were immigrants.

A nice overview available here.

HTH.

If I may be so bold as to suggest that given the similarity of native Swedish and German culture, as well as broadly similar recent immigration profiles, perhaps - just maybe - zygalski's figures aren't that far off the truth?

But I know that argument won't fly. So perhaps we should take a look at actual German statistics. The German Interior Ministry in May published 2015 crime statistics. Pay special attention to page 70, specifically "Straftaten gegen die sexuelle Selbstbestimmung" which translates to "Offenses against sexual self-determination". We can see that "zuwanderer" accounted for 4.8% of suspects.

On page 68 "zuwanderer" are defined as "immigrants /.../ who are registered as members of a non-EU country". This includes asylum seekers.

Now, I'm having some trouble finding good statistics for the amount of asylum seekers, or "immigrants" in the context of this thread, but if the numbers in this the Local article are anything to go by then it would appear that they numbered about 1.7m in 2015. Of those I understand roughly 1.3m were men. Or 1.6% of the total population.

Ignoring the BMI figures quoted above and going solely on the 3.6% figure in the Local, it would appear that immigrants are roughly 2.5 times more likely to commit sexual assault than a native German. So some way off zygalski's claim, but quite worrying nonetheless.

Feel free to correct me and provide better sources. My German is quite rusty these days.

[blindswelledrat]

Looket said:

it would appear that immigrants are roughly 2.5 times more likely to commit sexual assault than a native German. So some way off zygalski's claim, but quite worrying nonetheless.

Feel free to correct me and provide better sources. My German is quite rusty these days.

Assuming you are right, for a moment.
What percentage of immigrants into Germany are men? This would skew that figure a lot because "native German" would account for 50-50 women and statistically women don't rape.
But even if your figure is right, that an immigrant is 2.5 times more likely to rape than a national- why is that worrying? Of course I am not trivialising rape there, I am merely making the point that 2.5 times a tiny percentage is still a tiny percentage. That figure is wealded to imply immigrants are likely to rape but the truth is that it is extremely unlikely that an immigrant is a rapist even if that statistic were true.

[Digga]

2.5 times more likely is a lot. You can talk around it however you wish, but it's frankly (if correct) a very worrying statistic.

Of course, there are some factors that might mean this is the case; immigrating from countries with less equal societies, immigrating from war-torn or terrorist ravaged areas, in which case there is the consideration of PTSD. In each of these cases, it would reflect a failure of the host nation to properly vet immigrants and plan and provide for their integration. See Casey report for details...

[don4l]

The German Police are blaming uncontrolled immigration for the murder.

Daily Mail said:

The chairman of the DPoIG police union, Rainer Wendt, said Maria Ladenburger's killing could have been prevented.

He told Bild newspaper: 'We wouldn't have this victim, and so many others, if our country had been better prepared for the dangers that always go along with massive immigration.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4001266/Th...

[TerryThomas]

don4l said:

The German Police are blaming uncontrolled immigration for the murder.

Daily Mail said:

The chairman of the DPoIG police union, Rainer Wendt, said Maria Ladenburger's killing could have been prevented.

He told Bild newspaper: 'We wouldn't have this victim, and so many others, if our country had been better prepared for the dangers that always go along with massive immigration.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4001266/Th...

Pfft, what do they know compared to some lefty keyboard warriors on here?

[768]

Nothing more racist than a German copper.

At least, I assume that's what's coming next. Probably votes UKIP.

[dudleybloke]

768 said:

Nothing more racist than a German copper.

At least, I assume that's what's coming next. Probably votes UKIP.

Beständig Wilden?

[anonymous-user]

Digga said:

2.5 times more likely is a lot.

Not really. As BSR says, making a very small chance 2.5 times more probable means it stays a very small chance.

Eg: take the National Lottery chances of winning as 15 million to 1 per tickey. If I buy three tickets, my chances come down to 5 million to 1. Not great.

Whereas my chances of throwing a 6 with a dice are 1 in 6, and if I increase those chances by 2.5 times, I'm close to a coin flip.

[blindswelledrat]

Digga said:

2.5 times more likely is a lot. You can talk around it however you wish, but it's frankly (if correct) a very worrying statistic.

Of course, there are some factors that might mean this is the case; immigrating from countries with less equal societies, immigrating from war-torn or terrorist ravaged areas, in which case there is the consideration of PTSD. In each of these cases, it would reflect a failure of the host nation to properly vet immigrants and plan and provide for their integration. See Casey report for details...

You might be right, but it might just be irrelevant statistics. We just cant tell from a single headline statistic like that.
I am not saying the following is true at all, just giving an exaggerated example to make my point.
Lets imagine for a moment that the statistic came through that Afghan Refugees are 5 times more likely to commit rape than the average UK citizen. Shocking in isolation with no other factors considered.
Now imagine that 95% of Afghan refuges were males between the age of 18 and 30 and statistically 90% of rapes are committed by males between the age of 18-30. This would suggest that Afghan refugees were actually less likely to commit rapes than the relevant uk comparable.
Whilst my example is clearly not correct, when you are talking about such tiny percentages anyway, and considering 10% of the relevant facts and then using it to imply that immigrants are prone to raping, this is clearly unreasonable.
Just saying

Edited by blindswelledrat on Monday 5th December 17:05

[anonymous-user]

Looket said:

dandarez said:

'course you did.

What about murder?
Finland is going up in the stakes of murder of females. Immigrants or nationals?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/04/thre...

Allow me to quote myself from the Sweden thread:

Looket said:

Luckily we do have an old 2005 paper (investigating 1997-2001 figures) by BRÅ that concluded that immigrants are 410% more likely to rape or attempt rape than native Swedes.

Educate yourself here. Pay special attention to pages 63 and 67.

In BRÅ 1996:2 immigrants committed 38% of all rapes, children of immigrants 13% of all rapes, and illegals 10% of all rapes. Swedes committed 39% of all rapes. I'll let you do the math and work out the overrepresentation.

In 2008 Svenskarnas Parti investigated all rape cases in court. 60.6% of all convicted rapists were immigrants.

A nice overview available here.

HTH.

If I may be so bold as to suggest that given the similarity of native Swedish and German culture, as well as broadly similar recent immigration profiles, perhaps - just maybe - zygalski's figures aren't that far off the truth?

But I know that argument won't fly. So perhaps we should take a look at actual German statistics. The German Interior Ministry in May published 2015 crime statistics. Pay special attention to page 70, specifically "Straftaten gegen die sexuelle Selbstbestimmung" which translates to "Offenses against sexual self-determination". We can see that "zuwanderer" accounted for 4.8% of suspects.

On page 68 "zuwanderer" are defined as "immigrants /.../ who are registered as members of a non-EU country". This includes asylum seekers.

Now, I'm having some trouble finding good statistics for the amount of asylum seekers, or "immigrants" in the context of this thread, but if the numbers in this the Local article are anything to go by then it would appear that they numbered about 1.7m in 2015. Of those I understand roughly 1.3m were men. Or 1.6% of the total population.

Ignoring the BMI figures quoted above and going solely on the 3.6% figure in the Local, it would appear that immigrants are roughly 2.5 times more likely to commit sexual assault than a native German. So some way off zygalski's claim, but quite worrying nonetheless.

Feel free to correct me and provide better sources. My German is quite rusty these days.

I think the 1996 report was the one that had North Africans as being c 15x more likley than a 'local Swede' to commit rape. But that is now quite old data.

[CoolHands]

Rape by an immigrant is probably more likely to be reported than rape by someone known to the victim. So that would skew the data, as would a million other unknowns.

[s3fella]

Greg66 said:

Not really. As BSR says, making a very small chance 2.5 times more probable means it stays a very small chance.

Eg: take the National Lottery chances of winning as 15 million to 1 per tickey. If I buy three tickets, my chances come down to 5 million to 1. Not great.

Whereas my chances of throwing a 6 with a dice are 1 in 6, and if I increase those chances by 2.5 times, I'm close to a coin flip.

But IDEALLY, there should be NO chance of being raped by an immigrant. The fact that there is even the same probability of being subject to any crime perpetrated by someone who has either been allowed to enter a country to live and prosper, from outside, or who has entered illegally, is something that the current residents can be justified in condeming. Yes, sadly crime happens, some of it horrific stuff. But when it is perpetrated by someone who was born in a country, or brought up in it, there's little other residents can do but complain about society, his or her parents, upbringing etc. But if they see someone who has legally or otherwise entered the country from outside, been there 5 minutes and starts committing crime, they see it a a problem not of their making. They see it as bussing in criminals. Home grown crime is bad enough, but it is completely understandable that people are even more peeved when such events are perpetrated by people who have been subject to a country's hospitality and often welfare state.

IDEALLY, no one claiming asylum or being allowed leave to remain would be a criminal all would be useful members of society glad of a second chance in life. But things are never IDEAL.

My point is that when some of the Paris attackers appear to have entered Europe in the unchecked wave of immigrants that we saw all over the news in October 15, and when things like this happen to some poor girl whoa actually volunteered to help immigrants, and who is seemingly (not proven yet), rewarded by being raped and murdered by either someone she may have helped previously, or someone random but a migrant nonetheless (again, IF), I can see why people are pretty pissed off about it. The same as the New Year groapings and harassment in Cologne etc, many Germans, Europeans, Brits etc are outraged at such things. It's not "frothing" it is completely reasonable and understandable to any sane, impartial person. No one wants such people in their midst, home grown or not.

[s3fella]

CoolHands said:

Rape by an immigrant is probably more likely to be reported than rape by someone known to the victim. So that would skew the data, as would a million other unknowns.

You may be right, but I am not sure that has much to do with the price of fish!
Someone known to them may be a non migrant, or may not be.
Tragically, in this case, it may well turn out that she did know this guy. She used to volunteer at an immigration centre did she not?

[CoolHands]

Yes I'm just pointing out to those that think there is some kind of proof from an old report that more immigrants are rapists than indigenous citizens.

[blindswelledrat]

s3fella said:

But IDEALLY, there should be NO chance of being raped by an immigrant. The fact that there is even the same probability of being subject to any crime perpetrated by someone who has either been allowed to enter a country to live and prosper, from outside, or who has entered illegally, is something that the current residents can be justified in condeming. Yes, sadly crime happens, some of it horrific stuff. But when it is perpetrated by someone who was born in a country, or brought up in it, there's little other residents can do but complain about society, his or her parents, upbringing etc. But if they see someone who has legally or otherwise entered the country from outside, been there 5 minutes and starts committing crime, they see it a a problem not of their making. They see it as bussing in criminals. Home grown crime is bad enough, but it is completely understandable that people are even more peeved when such events are perpetrated by people who have been subject to a country's hospitality and often welfare state.

IDEALLY, no one claiming asylum or being allowed leave to remain would be a criminal all would be useful members of society glad of a second chance in life. But things are never IDEAL.

My point is that when some of the Paris attackers appear to have entered Europe in the unchecked wave of immigrants that we saw all over the news in October 15, and when things like this happen to some poor girl whoa actually volunteered to help immigrants, and who is seemingly (not proven yet), rewarded by being raped and murdered by either someone she may have helped previously, or someone random but a migrant nonetheless (again, IF), I can see why people are pretty pissed off about it. The same as the New Year groapings and harassment in Cologne etc, many Germans, Europeans, Brits etc are outraged at such things. It's not "frothing" it is completely reasonable and understandable to any sane, impartial person. No one wants such people in their midst, home grown or not.

Of course we all agree with that.
We are all equally angry about helping someone who goes on to do something like that. There is obviously no debate and those people are scum and I would happily see them sent back to wherever they came from with the most brutal of consequences.

I am just talking about perspective. Any rational person can see that this does not mean immigrants are rapists.
The 'frothing' is referring to the people who cannot understand this. Who extrapolate that kind of horror to all immigrants. It is mental and has no basis is commonsense or the most basic of thought processes. And yet the fact that a single incident in a foreign country is now big news to certain people on PH as though it actually demonstrates something.

[del mar]

Oh the irony - she was working to help refugees....

I still don't understand why people would want 1 million (or so) young men to come to their country when they know absolutely nothing about them ?

They are coming from war torn, backward countries where women have very few rights and are treated very differently to those in the West, why would you want them in your country with your wives and daughters ?

Yes Germany have German rapists and murders, but that is a very poor argument for bringing in more.

[AJL308]

Whichever way you look at this, the fact remains that had the perpetrator not have been allowed into Germany then his victim would not have been raped and would still be alive. Sorry but that's just a simple fact. For anyone to say otherwise is ludicrous.

Whether that fact has a bearing on the question of whether Germany was right or wrong to operate its immigration policy the way it did, or is doing, is another matter. I personally think that Germany has got it wrong but that's just my opinion.

It goes to the whole issue of open borders and freedom of movement which the EU so loves. The EU has thrown together 28 countries (soon to be 27) many of which are almost completely different in culture, history, ethnicity to one another. They are not compatible with each other in so many areas to the extent that what the EU is trying to do is not realizable in any meaningful sense.

Look at Germany and, Hungary, I think it was. You have the former allowing completely uncontrolled and unchecked immigration to anyone who wants it while the latter is throwing up razor wire fences to stop immigration and is even floating suggestions of handing pigs heads from it in order to deter Muslims! These two approaches are utterly irreconcilable yet these two countries claim to be part of a political union with a set of common values, goals and responsibilities.

The firearms used to shoot half of Paris to bits last year - twice - came from Slovakia because they have such lax legislation that you can buy "film props", which are essentially fully-automatic AK47's with a partial bore restriction, off the shelf. Remove the bore restrictor and you have a working assault rifle. Contrast that with the UK where they have been illegal for civilians to own since before they were even invented. How on earth can you hope to operate a political union with unrestricted movement of persons with those sorts of differences? You can't.

Related to the above point; it is known that at least one of the terrorists passed into the EU only a month prior to doing what he did. I don't believe that he was suddenly "radicalised" in the space of one month. He quite obviously entered the EU as a fighter to participate in something like that.

This obscene crime and it's poor innocent victim is entirely the fault of the EU and it's policies. Yes, the perpetrator did it, and carries the responsibility for it, but he was able to do it because the EU, Germany specifically, allowed this person in. I'm quite sure he would probably have done it wherever he happened to be but it needn't have been in Germany or anywhere in the EU.

[Sylvaforever]

Trabi601 said:

davepoth said:

Trabi601 said:

Forgetting the reason why there are so many immigrants coming over here... it's a problem created by the West.

So you're saying that this is indirectly the victim's fault after all?

That's obviously your interpretation of what I posted.

This thread was only posted for the immigrant fearing PH masses to further spread their hate and fear.

And a young woman raped and murdered by one of The Horde is NOT grounds for concern.