Home Secretary greenlights police to use new Taser 'within w

[anonymous-user]

Are the police officers on here prepared to agree that on the evidence we have before us currently the use of the taser seems less than ideal?

[rambo19]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

So he should know his absolute easiest option for defusing the situation immediately would have been to just say his name.

This^

[techguyone]

R1gtr said:

At least the female coppers incompetence didn't result in any harm to the dog.
That whole video is cringe worthy, the black dude was stupid, female copper shat it big time.
He deserved it for being awkward but at the same time a taser was totally uncalled for, it just screams of panic and poor training.
If two fit (I use the term lightly as the female looks absolutely useless) can not get a 60+ year old skinny man under arrest without resorting in a Taser then there is something extremely wrong with either-
A) Their ability as a copper
B) Police training.

Yes, I said this earlier, good that I'm not the only one to notice.

[anonymous-user]

techguyone said:

R1gtr said:

At least the female coppers incompetence didn't result in any harm to the dog.
That whole video is cringe worthy, the black dude was stupid, female copper shat it big time.
He deserved it for being awkward but at the same time a taser was totally uncalled for, it just screams of panic and poor training.
If two fit (I use the term lightly as the female looks absolutely useless) can not get a 60+ year old skinny man under arrest without resorting in a Taser then there is something extremely wrong with either-
A) Their ability as a copper
B) Police training.

Yes, I said this earlier, good that I'm not the only one to notice.

I agree with the sentiment, just not that he deserved to be tasered. Seem incredible to me that someone would even think of using such a device in these circumstances.

[Bigends]

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Bigends said:

Greendubber said:

Rovinghawk said:

Greendubber said:

It wouldnt be unlawful.

Based on previous history I'd suggest that an unlawful arrest isn't out of the question.

Why would it be unlawful then?

Because he's not who they thought he was? Nope, try again as that does not make the arrest unlawful.

What would they have arrested him for then - on suspicion of being wanted? - the male cop couldnt even confirm he WAS wanted. They must know what hes wanted for and arrest him on suspicion of THAT offence musnt they?

Dont be silly Bigends.

Of course it would have been for THAT offence, surely you dont need me to tell you that.

From the video they didnt actually know what THAT offence was though did they, and if they did - then they didnt tell him what it was

You know they didnt?

I'll lay odds they didnt - at any time did you hear them tell him - if they knew theyd have continued to make it clear to him. The male cop says We believe youre **** and hes wanted I think - thens the opportunity to tell him dont you agree??

[Bigends]

rambo19 said:

pinchmeimdreamin said:

So he should know his absolute easiest option for defusing the situation immediately would have been to just say his name.

This^

..and you think theyd have believed him if he didnt have any id on him?

[Daggle74]

SystemParanoia said:

The police have no right to ask your name if you haven't done anything wrong.

If they really want your details they can arrest you and figure it out down at the station with the appointed solicitor.

as they love to say, "anything you say can be used AGAINST you" ... not to help you.

Best to say nothnig

I don't comment much on here, but I have to now as some of the stuff on this thread alone is pure gold! I see the usual suspects are in attendance, I would suggest Mr Paranoia needs to remove the tin foil hat and stop watching Hollywood films and actually know what he is talking about before posting. Unfortunately comments like this just make you look really thick and undermine any argument you 'may' have had. Hint: the above comes from the US' Miranda warnings, not the UK caution. Good try though.

[pinchmeimdreamin]

Bigends said:

rambo19 said:

pinchmeimdreamin said:

So he should know his absolute easiest option for defusing the situation immediately would have been to just say his name.

This^

..and you think theyd have believed him if he didnt have any id on him?

It would have been a name they could check and with his "history" would have led them to a positive ID in minutes, thus negating the entire ensuing confrontation.

[anonymous-user]

desolate said:

techguyone said:

R1gtr said:

At least the female coppers incompetence didn't result in any harm to the dog.
That whole video is cringe worthy, the black dude was stupid, female copper shat it big time.
He deserved it for being awkward but at the same time a taser was totally uncalled for, it just screams of panic and poor training.
If two fit (I use the term lightly as the female looks absolutely useless) can not get a 60+ year old skinny man under arrest without resorting in a Taser then there is something extremely wrong with either-
A) Their ability as a copper
B) Police training.

Yes, I said this earlier, good that I'm not the only one to notice.

I agree with the sentiment, just not that he deserved to be tasered. Seem incredible to me that someone would even think of using such a device in these circumstances.

'Deserve' doesn't come into it. It's about what option is reasonable in the circumstances, which is primarily driven by what the probable medical implications are.

People get over-excited about 50,000 volts etc, but the medical implications are low. They're no higher than unarmed takes downs and other 'hands-on' techniques, if not lower. The advantages also extend to not being on the floor (who are the other people who know him? What are their intentions?), having a gap between the officer and subject and other benefits.

They've tried to arrest and handcuff in him a relatively compliment manner (after all the verbal communication). This took the form of trying to 'wrestle' him. This result in him being pushed and pushed into a gate and was unsuccessful. The next step is escalation. That escalation is down to the officer, but Taser is well within the area they're likely and (most likely) lawfully going to escalate to after the failures.

[anonymous-user]

La Liga said:

Deserve' doesn't come into it. It's about what option is reasonable in the circumstances, which is primarily driven by what the probable medical implications are.

People get over-excited about 50,000 volts etc, but the medical implications are low. They're no higher than unarmed takes downs and other 'hands-on' techniques, if not lower. The advantages also extend to not being on the floor (who are the other people who know him? What are their intentions?), having a gap between the officer and subject and other benefits.

They've tried to arrest and handcuff in him a relatively compliment manner (after all the verbal communication). This took the form of trying to 'wrestle' him. This result in him being pushed and pushed into a gate and was unsuccessful. The next step is escalation. That escalation is down to the officer, but Taser is well within the area they're likely and (most likely) lawfully going to escalate to after the failures.

So am I to understand that on the evidence in front of us you think the deployment of the taser is reasonable?

[MarshPhantom]

Apologies for starting a thread about something that was all over the news today when there was already a completely unrelated thread that has been running for a 6 weeks.

So sorry.

[alfie2244]

La Liga said:

Rovinghawk said:

He has history of being wrongfully arrested

Is that fact? What's your source?

I saw / heard same on BBC SW local news...damaged shoulder = compo. 2009 confused for same man that time also IIRC.

[Bigends]

La Liga said:

desolate said:

techguyone said:

R1gtr said:

At least the female coppers incompetence didn't result in any harm to the dog.
That whole video is cringe worthy, the black dude was stupid, female copper shat it big time.
He deserved it for being awkward but at the same time a taser was totally uncalled for, it just screams of panic and poor training.
If two fit (I use the term lightly as the female looks absolutely useless) can not get a 60+ year old skinny man under arrest without resorting in a Taser then there is something extremely wrong with either-
A) Their ability as a copper
B) Police training.

Yes, I said this earlier, good that I'm not the only one to notice.

I agree with the sentiment, just not that he deserved to be tasered. Seem incredible to me that someone would even think of using such a device in these circumstances.

'Deserve' doesn't come into it. It's about what option is reasonable in the circumstances, which is primarily driven by what the probable medical implications are.

People get over-excited about 50,000 volts etc, but the medical implications are low. They're no higher than unarmed takes downs and other 'hands-on' techniques, if not lower. The advantages also extend to not being on the floor (who are the other people who know him? What are their intentions?), having a gap between the officer and subject and other benefits.

They've tried to arrest and handcuff in him a relatively compliment manner (after all the verbal communication). This took the form of trying to 'wrestle' him. This result in him being pushed and pushed into a gate and was unsuccessful. The next step is escalation. That escalation is down to the officer, but Taser is well within the area they're likely and (most likely) lawfully going to escalate to after the failures.

Is the shot to the face from four feet away in the book? Is UDT no longer taught?

Edited by Bigends on Friday 20th January 20:54

[alfie2244]

techguyone said:

R1gtr said:

At least the female coppers incompetence didn't result in any harm to the dog.
That whole video is cringe worthy, the black dude was stupid, female copper shat it big time.
He deserved it for being awkward but at the same time a taser was totally uncalled for, it just screams of panic and poor training.
If two fit (I use the term lightly as the female looks absolutely useless) can not get a 60+ year old skinny man under arrest without resorting in a Taser then there is something extremely wrong with either-
A) Their ability as a copper
B) Police training.

Yes, I said this earlier, good that I'm not the only one to notice.

I said similar earlier also... or tried to at least.

[Fat Fairy]

Without wishing to be awkward, to those in blue;

If, when Adunbi was asked to identify himself, he had replied 'I am Jonah Adunbi'. 'Cos we are not required to carry identity documents, what was there to stop the police in question saying 'We don't believe you'.

At which point, he is back to square one...........

At what point do we stop asking, and start Tasering?

(My background; 28 yrs Air Force, far too much time on guard, been subject to an attempted run down with a vehicle when on guard; Yet to shoot anyone... etc)

FF

[Rovinghawk]

La Liga said:

Rovinghawk said:

He has history of being wrongfully arrested

Is that fact? What's your source?

The police confirmed it. Is that good enough for you?


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/20/poli...

Adunbi told on Friday how he had suffered sleepless nights since the incident. He also claimed he went through a similar ordeal in 2007 in another case of mistaken identity by police.

Police later confirmed there had been a previous incident involving Adunbi. A spokesman said: “We can confirm that Mr Adunbi was awarded compensation following an incident in 2009. Taser was not deployed regarding this incident.”

[pinchmeimdreamin]

Fat Fairy said:

Without wishing to be awkward, to those in blue;

If, when Adunbi was asked to identify himself, he had replied 'I am Jonah Adunbi'. 'Cos we are not required to carry identity documents, what was there to stop the police in question saying 'We don't believe you'.


FF

Because at that point they can do a person check and with his history the ID would take minutes at most.

[anonymous-user]

desolate said:

So am I to understand that on the evidence in front of us you think the deployment of the taser is reasonable?

I think there's ample scope for it to have been a lawful use of force, including given some of the unknowns.

Bigends said:

Is the shot to the face from four feet away in the book? Is UDT no longer taught?

UDT has the same if not worse medical implications.

I would suggest she hasn't aimed to shoot him in the face.

Fat Fairy said:

Without wishing to be awkward, to those in blue;

If, when Adunbi was asked to identify himself, he had replied 'I am Jonah Adunbi'. 'Cos we are not required to carry identity documents, what was there to stop the police in question saying 'We don't believe you'.

At which point, he is back to square one...........

At what point do we stop asking, and start Tasering?

(My background; 28 yrs Air Force, far too much time on guard, been subject to an attempted run down with a vehicle when on guard; Yet to shoot anyone... etc)

FF

It's a good question.

Having someone provide a name opens up different routes for checking data systems such as vehicles, addresses, previously known to the police - someone on duty may recognise the name if he's a community worker involved in the IAG etc.

Ultimately that may all be fruitless and the police need to make a further decision, but it opens up multiple other avenues to avoid an arrest.

Rovinghawk said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/20/poli...

Adunbi told on Friday how he had suffered sleepless nights since the incident. He also claimed he went through a similar ordeal in 2007 in another case of mistaken identity by police.

Police later confirmed there had been a previous incident involving Adunbi. A spokesman said: “We can confirm that Mr Adunbi was awarded compensation following an incident in 2009. Taser was not deployed regarding this incident.”

Do you not think I checked reasonably available media before replying to you?

They said compensation was paid out, they didn't say it was for an unlawful arrest, did they?

You decided the incident was an unlawful arrest to support your red herring point.

So again, is that fact what's the source? Perhaps they expanded on the radio someone else has eluded to, but you're not relying on that as a source, you've quoted something which refers to an incident.

[Rovinghawk]

La Liga said:

It's about what option is reasonable in the circumstances

A taser to the face seems a bit excessive rather than reasonable.

La Liga said:

the medical implications are low.

Blindness? I'm no medical expert but I'd guess a taser barb in the eye wouldn't be good for the eyesight.

La Liga said:

Taser is well within the area they're likely and (most likely) lawfully going to escalate to after the failures.

Napoleon often said "Don't reinforce failure"- they presumably didn't have the same opinion.

[Fat Fairy]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

Because at that point they can do a person check and with his history the ID would take minutes at most.

But then surely a villain would arm himself with a handy 'Alias', such as the black member of the Bristol Police Race Relations board, and we have gained nothing? After all, he must look something like the villain, or he wouldn't have been stopped??

FF