Home Secretary greenlights police to use new Taser 'within w

Home Secretary greenlights police to use new Taser 'within w

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anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
Bigends said:
Listen to the video - she arrests him for public order and assault Police while hes still shocked on the floor
Fair enough. Although if he's under arrest for the previous matter then he should be informed of any further offences he's arrested for.
Of course - i'd like to have seen their presentation in custody in relation to their initial grounds for the stop though
The 'execution of their duty' will be an issue if they've not arrested him for the initial matter I suspect.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
La Liga said:
o? Low probability doesn't mean a serious outcome won't occur.

The medical implications of pushing someone are low, but sometimes people fall and crack their skull and die.
Are you seriously equating pushing someone with using a taser? (Not just that but deploying it in such an incompetent manner that it hits the subject in the face)

I simply cannot see how the deployment of the taser is reasonable. She was under no threat.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
La Liga said:
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
Bigends said:
Listen to the video - she arrests him for public order and assault Police while hes still shocked on the floor
Fair enough. Although if he's under arrest for the previous matter then he should be informed of any further offences he's arrested for.
Of course - i'd like to have seen their presentation in custody in relation to their initial grounds for the stop though
The 'execution of their duty' will be an issue if they've not arrested him for the initial matter I suspect.
Execution of LAWFUL duty if I remember correctly. Interesting the charges were dropped when the offrences were clearly made out

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
I've carried a taser for over 6 years, its never even been drawn to deal with 'abuse'
I'm genuinely pleased to hear it.

Greendubber said:
I wouldnt take one post as police making any excuses.
I don't think Yipper is police- he's an idiot making excuses.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
desolate said:
Are you seriously equating pushing someone with using a taser? (Not just that but deploying it in such an incompetent manner that it hits the subject in the face)

I simply cannot see how the deployment of the taser is reasonable. She was under no threat.
I used it as an example to illustrate outcome vs likely outcome.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
La Liga said:
used it as an example to illustrate outcome vs likely outcome.
OK.

But it's weapon you shouldn't use unless you really have to - surely you agree with that.

anonymous-user

53 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
Bigends said:
La Liga said:
Bigends said:
Listen to the video - she arrests him for public order and assault Police while hes still shocked on the floor
Fair enough. Although if he's under arrest for the previous matter then he should be informed of any further offences he's arrested for.
Of course - i'd like to have seen their presentation in custody in relation to their initial grounds for the stop though
The 'execution of their duty' will be an issue if they've not arrested him for the initial matter I suspect.
Execution of LAWFUL duty if I remember correctly. Interesting the charges were dropped when the offrences were clearly made out
I don't see it in the public interest given the mistake and also allows the IPCC to get on straight away.

rambo19

2,737 posts

136 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
pinchmeimdreamin said:
It would have been a name they could check and with his "history" would have led them to a positive ID in minutes, thus negating the entire ensuing confrontation.
Exacty.

'my name is joe bloggs, I work with you guys on race relations'.

After another payout, imo.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Friday 20th January 2017
quotequote all
rambo19 said:
pinchmeimdreamin said:
It would have been a name they could check and with his "history" would have led them to a positive ID in minutes, thus negating the entire ensuing confrontation.
Exacty.

'my name is joe bloggs, I work with you guys on race relations'.

After another payout, imo.
'my name is joe bloggs, I work in a factory' - TASER TASER TASER.

what he does should not be his shield, the fact that he is innocent should be his shield.

he spent the whole time trying to get them to leave him alone. he wasnt looking for anything except to get home.

carinaman

21,222 posts

171 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
I just heard the audio on the end of BBC Radio news. She shouts 'Taser, taser, taser' after deploying it.

Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
'my name is joe bloggs, I work in a factory' - TASER TASER TASER.

what he does should not be his shield, the fact that he is innocent should be his shield.

he spent the whole time trying to get them to leave him alone. he wasnt looking for anything except to get home.
And they weren't looking for anything other than his name.

Rovinghawk said:
"Do as I say or be unlawfully arrested again"? I'm not sure I can support that.
So much drama in one sentence.

It's not like they were asking him to hop on one leg, give them £50 or shoot his dog. They wanted to know his name.

If people act like tools, as others have said laws will be passed that make it a cast iron offence. Which is totally unnecessary. My name's Joe. I live here. Come in for a cup of tea while you confirm my name and that I'm not a wrong un.

Bigends

5,412 posts

127 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
Murph7355 said:
SystemParanoia said:
'my name is joe bloggs, I work in a factory' - TASER TASER TASER.

what he does should not be his shield, the fact that he is innocent should be his shield.

he spent the whole time trying to get them to leave him alone. he wasnt looking for anything except to get home.
And they weren't looking for anything other than his name.

Rovinghawk said:
"Do as I say or be unlawfully arrested again"? I'm not sure I can support that.
So much drama in one sentence.

It's not like they were asking him to hop on one leg, give them £50 or shoot his dog. They wanted to know his name.

If people act like tools, as others have said laws will be passed that make it a cast iron offence. Which is totally unnecessary. My name's Joe. I live here. Come in for a cup of tea while you confirm my name and that I'm not a wrong un.
He told them he wasnt the bloke they were looking for..and they had no reason to believe he was that bloke

Mojooo

12,668 posts

179 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
If you weatch the 8 minute videos they do not actually tell him he is under arrest until he is tasered - surely the copper should say something similar to 'you are now under arrest and we can use force to take you in' - then the guy would have had no complaints at all.

whilst he has not covered hismelf in glory i think he has a very strong argument to say that he was being prevented on entering property by people who had no power to stop him hence he was not unjustified in forcing his way through.


carinaman

21,222 posts

171 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
Bigends said:
Murph7355 said:
SystemParanoia said:
'my name is joe bloggs, I work in a factory' - TASER TASER TASER.

what he does should not be his shield, the fact that he is innocent should be his shield.

he spent the whole time trying to get them to leave him alone. he wasnt looking for anything except to get home.
And they weren't looking for anything other than his name.

Rovinghawk said:
"Do as I say or be unlawfully arrested again"? I'm not sure I can support that.
So much drama in one sentence.

It's not like they were asking him to hop on one leg, give them £50 or shoot his dog. They wanted to know his name.

If people act like tools, as others have said laws will be passed that make it a cast iron offence. Which is totally unnecessary. My name's Joe. I live here. Come in for a cup of tea while you confirm my name and that I'm not a wrong un.
He told them he wasnt the bloke they were looking for..and they had no reason to believe he was that bloke
Thanks for your comments Bigends. I've witnessed police officers stop the wrong man before. I'm not sure if it was a lack of experience and/or training, and possibly trying to multi-task but they proceeded to dig themselves deeper into a hole. Some people have problems accepting that they're wrong, such problems are compounded when those people are put in a position of authority and given a uniform in my opinion.

Anyway the presumption of innocence and a discussion on comments left on the Daily Mail website at five munites in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZQz_XVwEP8

anonymous-user

53 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
carinaman said:
I just heard the audio on the end of BBC Radio news. She shouts 'Taser, taser, taser' after deploying it.

Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?
Why would you tell someone when you've made the decision to deploy it?

Bigends said:
and they had no reason to believe he was that bloke
How do you know that?

Mojooo said:
If you weatch the 8 minute videos they do not actually tell him he is under arrest until he is tasered - surely the copper should say something similar to 'you are now under arrest and we can use force to take you in' - then the guy would have had no complaints at all.
There's a chunk missing where he could have been told he's under arrest for whatever it was they thought he was wanted for. The post-Taser deployment arrests are potentially further offences.

carinaman said:
Oh no, not UK Column! laugh

On the ball, as always. "He was being stopped and searched, I presume".

The College of Policing using NLP? What? Using selective psychometric tests to select low-empathy people. Really?

No wonder you come out with such wibble if you buy into that, dare I say it, fake news!

Murph7355

37,651 posts

255 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
Bigends said:
He told them he wasnt the bloke they were looking for..and they had no reason to believe he was that bloke
1) As la liga notes, you have no way of knowing that (any of it) from the info we have.

2) The country needs to employ you to lead our detectives. We'd save so much time and money now all that's needed is "was it you/is it you" and we leave it at their answer! smile

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
carinaman said:
I just heard the audio on the end of BBC Radio news. She shouts 'Taser, taser, taser' after deploying it.

Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?
Why do you think?

You dont tell someone "I am about to hit you with my baton"

You might as well shout "move if you dont want to be hit"

The "taser taser taser" is for the benefit of other officers, not the subject.

techguyone

3,137 posts

141 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
La Liga said:
carinaman said:
I just heard the audio on the end of BBC Radio news. She shouts 'Taser, taser, taser' after deploying it.

Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?
Why would you tell someone when you've made the decision to deploy it?
For the same reason plod sometimes arc them, it lets the suspect know they are serious. Offers suspects an opportunity to reconsider, after all he wasn't exactly 'attacking' them

Fact is the daft clunge panicked, she didn't ain at all, I wonder what the outcome would be if she'd hit him in the eye and he was now blind.
Can you imagine the ststorm? 'Police blind race relations adviser'

Well it was only by the luck of the gods he was only hit in the lip.

At the least, the very least she should never be allowed to carry anything more dangerous than pepper spray, ideally she should get a lot more.

Really really crappy drills, poor judgement and a monumental own goal for the police.


Guy was a cock too for not complying, but the reaction highlighted those particular officers st policing, I hope the rest in that area are more professional.

I know you'll twist it around and they were lily white, I'm not anti-police by any means, but that was bad policing. Pure & simple. The outcome could and would have been different with competent officers.

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
techguyone said:
La Liga said:
carinaman said:
I just heard the audio on the end of BBC Radio news. She shouts 'Taser, taser, taser' after deploying it.

Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?
Why would you tell someone when you've made the decision to deploy it?
For the same reason plod sometimes arc them, it lets the suspect know they are serious. Offers suspects an opportunity to reconsider, after all he wasn't exactly 'attacking' them

Fact is the daft clunge panicked, she didn't ain at all, I wonder what the outcome would be if she'd hit him in the eye and he was now blind.
Can you imagine the ststorm? 'Police blind race relations adviser'

Well it was only by the luck of the gods he was only hit in the lip.

At the least, the very least she should never be allowed to carry anything more dangerous than pepper spray, ideally she should get a lot more.

Really really crappy drills, poor judgement and a monumental own goal for the police.


Guy was a cock too for not complying, but the reaction highlighted those particular officers st policing, I hope the rest in that area are more professional.

I know you'll twist it around and they were lily white, I'm not anti-police by any means, but that was bad policing. Pure & simple. The outcome could and would have been different with competent officers.
And you're qualifications/experience in taser deployments? If you'd ever fired one you'd know just how inaccurate they are.

Ideally you aim for just above the belt line, easy on a stationary target on a firing range on a training course. You say remove the cartridge and arc it, hardly ideal in a scuffle, you'd never do it in these circumstances. You could drop the cartridge and not be able to put it on and you cant use it 'cattle prod' style with no cartridge on.

Just because he was hit in the face does not make it a bad deployment, it just means he has been hit in the face. I was once present at a taser incident where the top probe knocked a blokes front teeth out and stuck in the roof of his mouth. Bad drills? No far from it, just a moving target with a fairly inaccurate weapon.

Yes a probe could have blinded him, there is an element of risk in all deployments and all use of force by the police, it doesnt mean when it happens its always wrong.

With this situation I doubt I'd have used taser but I'm a 6'4" 17 stone bloke, shes a smallish female so could possibly justify it based on the subject impact factors. She may have had the safety off and pressed the trigger by mistake, she might not have.

Its very easy to be critical whilst watching a video but its down to what she felt and knew at the time of the incident. As part of the post taser procedure she has to complete a report that will document the type of job, how many people were there, how many tasers, how the taser was used, probe placement and use of force law used. These are then sent off for scrutiny, if she's done a bad job then she'll be dealt with. I know of a couple of incidents in my force that people have had their tickets pulled, mainly due to not writing the job up properly at the time rather than the actual use of the taser.

Rovinghawk

13,300 posts

157 months

Saturday 21st January 2017
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
Ideally you aim.
Not easy when firing from the hip as she did.