Home Secretary greenlights police to use new Taser 'within w
Discussion
Rovinghawk said:
Greendubber said:
Ideally you aim.
Not easy when firing from the hip as she did.As I say in the bit you failed to quote, she could have had the safety off and fired by mistake but she may not have hence what I just pointed out above, neither of us know.
LOL it gets better, so either panic or ND, either way it's not exactly confidence inspiring.
I did look at the video again, that is not an aimed shot. Considering it's an 'inaccurate weapon' that's uhhh shocking?
She fired it like a kid playing guns with her mates, snap shot from the hip. Joke. Just a joke.
I did look at the video again, that is not an aimed shot. Considering it's an 'inaccurate weapon' that's uhhh shocking?
She fired it like a kid playing guns with her mates, snap shot from the hip. Joke. Just a joke.
Edited by techguyone on Saturday 21st January 11:25
Rovinghawk said:
Greendubber said:
As I say in the bit you failed to quote, she could have had the safety off and fired by mistake but she may not have hence what I just pointed out above, neither of us know.
I'd say either accident or panic but, as you say, neither of us knows.I've helped out on training courses teaching taser & personal safety training and there are people who just completely go to sh%t when under pressure, we've failed people who on the range are great but put an angry person in front of them and it all goes out of the window, the course is designed to weed those out so I'd like to think she wasnt just pulling the trigger in a panic. She'll have a portfolio held by force which will have her initial course notes and exam papers in along with notes and test papers from subsequent yearly refresher training and all those will be looked at during the investigation of this complaint.
If she was in a state of panic then its down to her to explain why and justify the level of force used. Its then down to the IPCC to decide if her response was proportionate or not.
Personally on the face of it I'd have just took hold of him, I'm reasonably happy that I have the ability to stop him leaving. If I was going to use taser half the world would know as I'd have been yelling at him to look at the red dot on his chest and to do exactly what I am telling him to do.
Easy as an outsider looking in with the benefit of hindsight though, no one would care if he was actually a wanted person even though the deployment was the same. 'Boo hoo burgler/rapist/murderer got tasered in the face, how sad nevermind'
techguyone said:
La Liga said:
carinaman said:
I just heard the audio on the end of BBC Radio news. She shouts 'Taser, taser, taser' after deploying it.
Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?
Why would you tell someone when you've made the decision to deploy it? Why couldn't she have shouted that before deploying it?
I'd agree but she's got the thing in her hand for most of the video...
Like the poster above, the sensible thing to do would have been to holler TASER, look at your CHEST, See the Red DOT STop or we'll shoot.
Not mince around for 6 minutes, then just randomly fire off an unaimed shot in someones face.
Like the poster above, the sensible thing to do would have been to holler TASER, look at your CHEST, See the Red DOT STop or we'll shoot.
Not mince around for 6 minutes, then just randomly fire off an unaimed shot in someones face.
techguyone said:
I'd agree but she's got the thing in her hand for most of the video...
Like the poster above, the sensible thing to do would have been to holler TASER, look at your CHEST, See the Red DOT STop or we'll shoot.
Not mince around for 6 minutes, then just randomly fire off an unaimed shot in someones face.
Not sure if a factor but he did have a thick coat on with the hood up..............Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.Like the poster above, the sensible thing to do would have been to holler TASER, look at your CHEST, See the Red DOT STop or we'll shoot.
Not mince around for 6 minutes, then just randomly fire off an unaimed shot in someones face.
I think everyone here supports Police using whatever they have to to defend themselves when they are in danger.
After the contact at the gate and the fact that he had keys in his hand he COULD have been a danger but the sensible thing to do would have been to just step back and threaten him with the taser first. That woman clearly panciked and went over the top. There was no need to act is such a rushed way.
After the contact at the gate and the fact that he had keys in his hand he COULD have been a danger but the sensible thing to do would have been to just step back and threaten him with the taser first. That woman clearly panciked and went over the top. There was no need to act is such a rushed way.
I see the ph debate is following its usual pattern: people repeating their preconceived opinions at each other until one finally gives up.
After about 6 pages, people usually start making up scenarios that "might" have been in order to fit their position.
-he might have been "formally" (note the spelling) arrested, or he might not. We don't know. Anything said otherwise is just "what-if" bs
- he might have been told why he matched the description of a wanted person, he might not have been
- he might have initiated the use of force in the missing video: we just don't know
Police posting here can no doubt make inferences from their experience, but what they can't do is just dismiss the criticisms being aimed (ha ha) at what we see in this video, because until these are answered, there is legitimate doubt as to what legal justification they had to use force.
The simple answer is we have to wait for the bodycam footage to come out in full, and hopefully answer these points.
Other observation s
-simply giving your name sounds a "neat" solution, doesn't it? I suspect if this happened to you often, you would change your tune.
-I'm no black rights activist, but I can well imagine one pc saying to the other "they all look alike anyway"
- if the police need the power to demand your name and ID regardless of situation, then parliament need to give them it. Until then, they don't.
- To demand/ coerse/ intimidate someone into doing so is not, in my view, in the tradition s of our country's police
-reminder, it's not clear from that clip whether they do or don't have that power. They acted like they did, but I'm not going to speculate
-if someone is resisting, refusing to give details, they should be arrested in a transparent fashion, and force used if needed. Everyone then knows where they stand, including the police
Think that's it.
Oh yeah, I still think tasers are one of the most effective weapons the police have, though in this case, they had 4 ears and 2 mouths. They should have used them in that proprtion.
Ian
After about 6 pages, people usually start making up scenarios that "might" have been in order to fit their position.
-he might have been "formally" (note the spelling) arrested, or he might not. We don't know. Anything said otherwise is just "what-if" bs
- he might have been told why he matched the description of a wanted person, he might not have been
- he might have initiated the use of force in the missing video: we just don't know
Police posting here can no doubt make inferences from their experience, but what they can't do is just dismiss the criticisms being aimed (ha ha) at what we see in this video, because until these are answered, there is legitimate doubt as to what legal justification they had to use force.
The simple answer is we have to wait for the bodycam footage to come out in full, and hopefully answer these points.
Other observation s
-simply giving your name sounds a "neat" solution, doesn't it? I suspect if this happened to you often, you would change your tune.
-I'm no black rights activist, but I can well imagine one pc saying to the other "they all look alike anyway"
- if the police need the power to demand your name and ID regardless of situation, then parliament need to give them it. Until then, they don't.
- To demand/ coerse/ intimidate someone into doing so is not, in my view, in the tradition s of our country's police
-reminder, it's not clear from that clip whether they do or don't have that power. They acted like they did, but I'm not going to speculate
-if someone is resisting, refusing to give details, they should be arrested in a transparent fashion, and force used if needed. Everyone then knows where they stand, including the police
Think that's it.
Oh yeah, I still think tasers are one of the most effective weapons the police have, though in this case, they had 4 ears and 2 mouths. They should have used them in that proprtion.
Ian
I'm guessing she is filling in quite a lot of forms at the moment! I'm not a policeman but I can imagine that her sergeant felt a sense of disappointment that not only had she shot the wrong person with a Taser not only had she shot him in the face not only was it filmed by a bystander.......the person concerned was black in his sixties and advised the police on race relations.
I would imagine he asked a lot of "pointed" questions. I'm very glad I'm not her lol
I would imagine he asked a lot of "pointed" questions. I'm very glad I'm not her lol
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERDont confuse taking everything into account, including operational experience, training and offering an alternative point and explaining a topic being discussed as 'the police can do no wrong EVER'
I guess the bigger picture wont fit into your narrow minded, frankly ridiculous posts on anything police related, will it?
smileymikey said:
I'm guessing she is filling in quite a lot of forms at the moment! I'm not a policeman but I can imagine that her sergeant felt a sense of disappointment that not only had she shot the wrong person with a Taser not only had she shot him in the face not only was it filmed by a bystander.
She is a Sergeant so I'm not sure another one will matter to her. She will have to do a statement, a use of force form and I expect some form of deployment Taser form.
She'll probably have to be interviewed by the IPCC if they're retaining it. If she's articulate enough and has a good enough understanding of the laws around using force can see clear routes to legal justification, regardless of anything else (presumably she'll take legal advice, too). When it comes down to it, that's the fundamentally most important thing.
She may not be able to justify it and her conduct may have reached he misconduct of criminal thresholds, but we'll have to see the outcome.
One thing I know for sure is how one-dimensionally people make judgements on situations they're viewing as third persons and lack the appreciation of how intrinsic the law is around using force. It's hard to overstate the importance of her beliefs, perceptions, feelings and judgements matter to the outcome.
Greendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERGreendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERGreendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERIan Geary said:
...
- if the police need the power to demand your name and ID regardless of situation, then parliament need to give them it. Until then, they don't.
...
I'd much sooner have policing by conSent and people be courteous and accommodating than have to legislate for everything. Creating a combative approach by bleating about rights is going to end badly.- if the police need the power to demand your name and ID regardless of situation, then parliament need to give them it. Until then, they don't.
...
Edited by Murph7355 on Saturday 21st January 23:19
La Liga said:
smileymikey said:
I'm guessing she is filling in quite a lot of forms at the moment! I'm not a policeman but I can imagine that her sergeant felt a sense of disappointment that not only had she shot the wrong person with a Taser not only had she shot him in the face not only was it filmed by a bystander.
She is a Sergeant so I'm not sure another one will matter to her. She will have to do a statement, a use of force form and I expect some form of deployment Taser form.
She'll probably have to be interviewed by the IPCC if they're retaining it. If she's articulate enough and has a good enough understanding of the laws around using force can see clear routes to legal justification, regardless of anything else (presumably she'll take legal advice, too). When it comes down to it, that's the fundamentally most important thing.
She may not be able to justify it and her conduct may have reached he misconduct of criminal thresholds, but we'll have to see the outcome.
One thing I know for sure is how one-dimensionally people make judgements on situations they're viewing as third persons and lack the appreciation of how intrinsic the law is around using force. It's hard to overstate the importance of her beliefs, perceptions, feelings and judgements matter to the outcome.
Greendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERGreendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERGreendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERGreendubber said:
SystemParanoia said:
alfie2244 said:
Very poorly handled by the officers in my opinion.
in everyone's opinion except la liga and greendubber.. in their eyes the police can do no wrong EVERDont confuse taking everything into account, including operational experience, training and offering an alternative point and explaining a topic being discussed as 'the police can do no wrong EVER'
I guess the bigger picture wont fit into your narrow minded, frankly ridiculous posts on anything police related, will it?
the man isnt a criminal
all charges brought against him have been dropped
this means the police were wrong
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