Two found Dead in Fiesta - Possible Chemical leak?

Two found Dead in Fiesta - Possible Chemical leak?

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anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Gretchen said:
What I read about there being vomit outside the vehicle as well as inside, and no explanation as to how it got there was upsetting. Perhaps he/she felt unwell, got out to be sick, then back in the car again. So sad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

Carbon monoxide poisoning occurs after breathing in too much carbon monoxide (CO). Symptoms of mild acute poisoning include lightheadedness, confusion, headache, feeling like the world is spinning, and flu-like effects. Larger exposures can lead to toxicity of the central nervous system and heart, and death. After acute poisoning, long-term problems may occur. '

http://www.detectcarbonmonoxide.com/co-health-risk...

'How Do I Know If I Am Being Exposed to CO?

The beginning symptoms of CO poisoning are sometimes compared to the symptoms of food poisoning. Depending on the level of CO, and length of exposure, you may experience any one or more of the following symptoms:

headache
dizziness
weakness and clumsiness
nausea and vomiting
quick irregular heartbeat
chest pain
hearing loss
blurry vision
disorientation or confusion seizures'

3200 PPM Headache, nausea, and dizziness after 5-10 minutes; collapse and unconsciousness after 30 minutes of exposure.
Death within 1 hour.
6400 PPM Death within 30 minutes.

'7,000 ppm Undiluted warm car exhaust without a catalytic converter' CO produced by car . wiki

so sitting for 30 minutes could have killed them , maybe at the 10 minute mark felt unwell but didn;t relise it was CO.

Gretchen

19,038 posts

217 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Exactly. Why the hell get back in the car? I'd be wanting out and as much fresh air as possible if I felt and was vomiting.

carl_w

9,191 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Gretchen said:
Exactly. Why the hell get back in the car? I'd be wanting out and as much fresh air as possible if I felt and was vomiting.
lightheadedness, confusion,

anonymous-user

55 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
I haven't read the whole background to the story, but don't assume an apprenticeship at Ford is to do with car mechanics.

I only managed one year of an apprenticeship 25 years ago, but that was electrical installations, robot programming, engineering/milling/lathes etc. The only car related thing we did was take the head off a static engine and put it back on again.

Hub

6,437 posts

199 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
carl_w said:
Gretchen said:
Exactly. Why the hell get back in the car? I'd be wanting out and as much fresh air as possible if I felt and was vomiting.
lightheadedness, confusion,
There was two of them though - "I don't feel too good". "No, nor do I actually".

Unless they were napping, which is unlikely with the engine on, it seems a bit odd.

carl_w

9,191 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Hub said:
There was two of them though - "I don't feel too good". "No, nor do I actually".

Unless they were napping, which is unlikely with the engine on, it seems a bit odd.
I don't know much about CO poisoning but I imagine it's a bit like hypoxia where all rational thought goes out of the window.

Oakey

27,592 posts

217 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
It's not called the silent killer for nothing

dandarez

13,290 posts

284 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That was my point, sort of. He was an apprentice at Ford (which site?) but apprentice 'what'?

However, that pic of him with 'Emission Laboratory D.....?' behind.
Is that in Ford's Dunton site?
If he worked in an emissions lab, surely he would be wise to 'emission' dangers?
Perhaps it's just me?
Perhaps that pic is innocent and nothing to do with his work?

All very sad.
And the vomit, not just outside the car door, but also further away outside his girlfriend's front door, seems odd.
Suggests they got out, but why go back? If the gases were that high and also visible (see update link below) wouldn't they have collapsed quickly.

Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3149356/essex-souped...

Oakey

27,592 posts

217 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Are you suggesting this was some kind of murder suicide?

carl_w

9,191 posts

259 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
dandarez said:
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
I suspect the police introduced some sort of marker gas or smoke for demonstration purposes. CO is invisible.

Why go back inside the car? Thought it might be a dodgy kebab due to irrational thought?

dandarez

13,290 posts

284 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
Oakey said:
Are you suggesting this was some kind of murder suicide?
I'm not suggesting anything!

I said it's sad. It just seems odd.
I'm not alone.
Others on this thread have also intimated it is odd.

Ok?


dandarez

13,290 posts

284 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
The police video shows the fumes entering the car. Ok, it does not take long to have effect but it does seem at some point they got out of the car to vomit.
Even the police say this is unexplained.

The nub of the story being presented is almost 'do not' mod your car. There are huge numbers of car modders/enthusiasts out there. It's almost as if we are to blame.

When I first tinkered with cars and engines, one of the first things done was the 'big bore Peco' (yeah, that long ago!), then within no time it had progressed to a Aston silencer slung across the back of the car (rear engined) but the dangers of gases, heat, and fumes were high on the list, even to a novice.

Perhaps he was totally naïve. Reports say he was experienced. The fact that he worked for Ford as someone else pointed out doesn't mean he was a mechanic.

Mainly what's bugged me since I first saw it is that pic.
Where is it? Is it Dunton? I have no idea.
Perhaps it's nothing to do with Ford nor cars, but it does says 'Emission Lab'. Perhaps it's all totally innocent.



dandarez

13,290 posts

284 months

Wednesday 22nd March 2017
quotequote all
carl_w said:
dandarez said:
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
I suspect the police introduced some sort of marker gas or smoke for demonstration purposes. CO is invisible.

Why go back inside the car? Thought it might be a dodgy kebab due to irrational thought?
I can see where you're coming from. Plenty have fast food in cars and it's not unusual to get dodgy stuff (been there!) and they put it down to the reason for being sick.

In fact, that is probably the only rational explanation to return inside the car.

danllama

5,728 posts

143 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
Maybe they both passed out. One woke up, stumbled vomiting towards the house for help, couldn't get attention from indoors, back to car to help but succumbed. Just one possible scenario. Horrible to think about.

Lotus Notes

1,204 posts

192 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
dandarez said:
carl_w said:
dandarez said:
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
I suspect the police introduced some sort of marker gas or smoke for demonstration purposes. CO is invisible.

Why go back inside the car? Thought it might be a dodgy kebab due to irrational thought?
I can see where you're coming from. Plenty have fast food in cars and it's not unusual to get dodgy stuff (been there!) and they put it down to the reason for being sick.

In fact, that is probably the only rational explanation to return inside the car.
I've worked on sites where you wear a combination of CO/CO2/NH3/H2S detectors and CO is toxic at low concentrations. I remember a particular steelworks where venting would raise the CO levels to 50 ppm and we would be seriously concerned and would instigate an evacuation after 10 minutes at these levels.

The US department of health and human services state existing short-term exposure guidelines: National Research Council [NRC 1987] Emergency Exposure Guidance Levels (EEGLs):

10-minute EEGL: 1,500 ppm
30-minute EEGL: 800 ppm
60-minute EEGL: 400 ppm
24-hour EEGL: 50 ppm

These are by volume, i.e. 0.15% by volume in air over a 10-minute period is permissable in a the case of an emergency!
LC50 (i.e. 50% of rats die) is 0.376% over a one hour period. For reference the amount of Argon in air is 0.93%

The trouble with CO poisoning is that CO binds to the haemoglobin and reduces the Oxygen carrying capacity. This will have a half life and therefore takes time to be displaced from the haemoglobin surface...During a period of exposure to high concentrations, hysteria, hyperventilaton and psychosis will occur. his can also cause mixed signals with heart function and death.

It's perfectly plausible that they stayed in the car and died from CO poisoning.

zygalski

7,759 posts

146 months

Thursday 23rd March 2017
quotequote all
Leptons said:
Excuse the Wail link...
Not reported elsewhere?