Two found Dead in Fiesta - Possible Chemical leak?
Discussion
Gretchen said:
What I read about there being vomit outside the vehicle as well as inside, and no explanation as to how it got there was upsetting. Perhaps he/she felt unwell, got out to be sick, then back in the car again. So sad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoningCarbon monoxide poisoning occurs after breathing in too much carbon monoxide (CO). Symptoms of mild acute poisoning include lightheadedness, confusion, headache, feeling like the world is spinning, and flu-like effects. Larger exposures can lead to toxicity of the central nervous system and heart, and death. After acute poisoning, long-term problems may occur. '
http://www.detectcarbonmonoxide.com/co-health-risk...
'How Do I Know If I Am Being Exposed to CO?
The beginning symptoms of CO poisoning are sometimes compared to the symptoms of food poisoning. Depending on the level of CO, and length of exposure, you may experience any one or more of the following symptoms:
headache
dizziness
weakness and clumsiness
nausea and vomiting
quick irregular heartbeat
chest pain
hearing loss
blurry vision
disorientation or confusion seizures'
3200 PPM Headache, nausea, and dizziness after 5-10 minutes; collapse and unconsciousness after 30 minutes of exposure.
Death within 1 hour.
6400 PPM Death within 30 minutes.
'7,000 ppm Undiluted warm car exhaust without a catalytic converter' CO produced by car . wiki
so sitting for 30 minutes could have killed them , maybe at the 10 minute mark felt unwell but didn;t relise it was CO.
I haven't read the whole background to the story, but don't assume an apprenticeship at Ford is to do with car mechanics.
I only managed one year of an apprenticeship 25 years ago, but that was electrical installations, robot programming, engineering/milling/lathes etc. The only car related thing we did was take the head off a static engine and put it back on again.
I only managed one year of an apprenticeship 25 years ago, but that was electrical installations, robot programming, engineering/milling/lathes etc. The only car related thing we did was take the head off a static engine and put it back on again.
carl_w said:
Gretchen said:
Exactly. Why the hell get back in the car? I'd be wanting out and as much fresh air as possible if I felt and was vomiting.
lightheadedness, confusion,Unless they were napping, which is unlikely with the engine on, it seems a bit odd.
Hub said:
There was two of them though - "I don't feel too good". "No, nor do I actually".
Unless they were napping, which is unlikely with the engine on, it seems a bit odd.
I don't know much about CO poisoning but I imagine it's a bit like hypoxia where all rational thought goes out of the window. Unless they were napping, which is unlikely with the engine on, it seems a bit odd.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That was my point, sort of. He was an apprentice at Ford (which site?) but apprentice 'what'?However, that pic of him with 'Emission Laboratory D.....?' behind.
Is that in Ford's Dunton site?
If he worked in an emissions lab, surely he would be wise to 'emission' dangers?
Perhaps it's just me?
Perhaps that pic is innocent and nothing to do with his work?
All very sad.
And the vomit, not just outside the car door, but also further away outside his girlfriend's front door, seems odd.
Suggests they got out, but why go back? If the gases were that high and also visible (see update link below) wouldn't they have collapsed quickly.
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3149356/essex-souped...
dandarez said:
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
I suspect the police introduced some sort of marker gas or smoke for demonstration purposes. CO is invisible.Why go back inside the car? Thought it might be a dodgy kebab due to irrational thought?
The police video shows the fumes entering the car. Ok, it does not take long to have effect but it does seem at some point they got out of the car to vomit.
Even the police say this is unexplained.
The nub of the story being presented is almost 'do not' mod your car. There are huge numbers of car modders/enthusiasts out there. It's almost as if we are to blame.
When I first tinkered with cars and engines, one of the first things done was the 'big bore Peco' (yeah, that long ago!), then within no time it had progressed to a Aston silencer slung across the back of the car (rear engined) but the dangers of gases, heat, and fumes were high on the list, even to a novice.
Perhaps he was totally naïve. Reports say he was experienced. The fact that he worked for Ford as someone else pointed out doesn't mean he was a mechanic.
Mainly what's bugged me since I first saw it is that pic.
Where is it? Is it Dunton? I have no idea.
Perhaps it's nothing to do with Ford nor cars, but it does says 'Emission Lab'. Perhaps it's all totally innocent.
Even the police say this is unexplained.
The nub of the story being presented is almost 'do not' mod your car. There are huge numbers of car modders/enthusiasts out there. It's almost as if we are to blame.
When I first tinkered with cars and engines, one of the first things done was the 'big bore Peco' (yeah, that long ago!), then within no time it had progressed to a Aston silencer slung across the back of the car (rear engined) but the dangers of gases, heat, and fumes were high on the list, even to a novice.
Perhaps he was totally naïve. Reports say he was experienced. The fact that he worked for Ford as someone else pointed out doesn't mean he was a mechanic.
Mainly what's bugged me since I first saw it is that pic.
Where is it? Is it Dunton? I have no idea.
Perhaps it's nothing to do with Ford nor cars, but it does says 'Emission Lab'. Perhaps it's all totally innocent.
carl_w said:
dandarez said:
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
I suspect the police introduced some sort of marker gas or smoke for demonstration purposes. CO is invisible.Why go back inside the car? Thought it might be a dodgy kebab due to irrational thought?
In fact, that is probably the only rational explanation to return inside the car.
dandarez said:
carl_w said:
dandarez said:
Police release video of fumes exiting the fresh air vents inside the car. You can see the fumes. WTF did they not get out? Perhaps they did to be sick. But why go back inside the car?
I suspect the police introduced some sort of marker gas or smoke for demonstration purposes. CO is invisible.Why go back inside the car? Thought it might be a dodgy kebab due to irrational thought?
In fact, that is probably the only rational explanation to return inside the car.
The US department of health and human services state existing short-term exposure guidelines: National Research Council [NRC 1987] Emergency Exposure Guidance Levels (EEGLs):
10-minute EEGL: 1,500 ppm
30-minute EEGL: 800 ppm
60-minute EEGL: 400 ppm
24-hour EEGL: 50 ppm
These are by volume, i.e. 0.15% by volume in air over a 10-minute period is permissable in a the case of an emergency!
LC50 (i.e. 50% of rats die) is 0.376% over a one hour period. For reference the amount of Argon in air is 0.93%
The trouble with CO poisoning is that CO binds to the haemoglobin and reduces the Oxygen carrying capacity. This will have a half life and therefore takes time to be displaced from the haemoglobin surface...During a period of exposure to high concentrations, hysteria, hyperventilaton and psychosis will occur. his can also cause mixed signals with heart function and death.
It's perfectly plausible that they stayed in the car and died from CO poisoning.
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