Marine A secures new hearing.

[footnote]

DanielSan said:

You've just demonstrated a perfect level of having no understanding of mental illness, closely followed by what can only be just saying whatever cones into your head.

He should never have been sent down in the first place imo, he extended more courtesy than one of our troops would get if they were injured and captured. The second he pulled that trigger there was one less in the world.

Exactly - this is why we occupy the higher moral ground and exemplifies what made Britain great.

[tommunster10]

DanielSan said:

You've just demonstrated a perfect level of having no understanding of mental illness, closely followed by what can only be just saying whatever cones into your head.

He should never have been sent down in the first place imo, he extended more courtesy than one of our troops would get if they were injured and captured. The second he pulled that trigger there was one less in the world.

OK but separate your pathetic outage and "look at me i'm outraged!", from the fact this chap got off based on "he's mentally ill". Regardless of if he should of been in jail.
So calm down.
I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad so as to get out of prison...hmm.
Even more so for the thousands of proper soldiers with REAL mental illness but who haven't found themselves gleefully killing an injured human on camera.

I'm sure you'll be OUTRAGED! you little snowflake.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 11:31

[johnfm]

tommunster10 said:

DanielSan said:

You've just demonstrated a perfect level of having no understanding of mental illness, closely followed by what can only be just saying whatever cones into your head.

He should never have been sent down in the first place imo, he extended more courtesy than one of our troops would get if they were injured and captured. The second he pulled that trigger there was one less in the world.

OK but separate your pathetic outage and "look at me i'm outraged!", from the fact this chap got off based on "he's mentally ill". Regardless of if he should of been in jail.
So calm down.
I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad so as to get out of prison...hmm.
Even more so for the thousands of proper soldiers with REAL mental illness but who haven't found themselves gleefully killing an injured human on camera.

I'm sure you'll be OUTRAGED! you little snowflake.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 11:31

You should probably leave the discussion of complex legal and ethical issues to the grown ups Tom.

[Mike_Mac]

tommunster10 said:

I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad

I've snipped all the 'outrage' and similar bits and focused on your comments above, which just amplify what I said before. Mental illness, especially when brought on by extreme stress rather than an inherent condition, is not some sort of 'once you've got it you're a 'mentalist' ' state. Very far from it.

Your comments just highlight that it is you who have no understanding of what PTSD, or any other stress-induced mental illness actually is, but you nevertheless still feel compelled to comment and assert that he's either making it up or not safe to be in the streets and that PH doesn't understand mental illness!

Please at least try and understand what you're talking about before chucking around 'mental' comments.

Edited by Mike_Mac on Thursday 16th March 11:49

[tommunster10]

Mike_Mac said:

tommunster10 said:

I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad

I've snipped all the 'outrage' and similar bits and focused on your comments above, which just amplify what I said before. Mental illness, especially when brought on by extreme stress rather than an inherent condition, is not some sort of 'once you've got it you're a 'mentalist' ' state. Very far from it.

Your comments just highlight that it is you who have no understanding of what PTSD, or any other stress-induced mental illness actually is, but you nevertheless still feel compelled to comment and assert that he's either making it up or not safe to be in the streets and that PH doesn't understand mental illness!

Please at least try and understand what you're talking about before chucking around 'mental' comments.

Edited by Mike_Mac on Thursday 16th March 11:49

His team funded by Daily Mail readers have found a loop hole and played the 'mental' card... now normally the Daily Mail and it's type would have a field day over 'playing a card'.
If this were some chav or a Muslim using this to get out of jail the conversation would be different for sure.
Plenty of decent soldiers around why help this one? The UK jails are full of soldiers, the UK government treats them so badly there is a bloomin charity to help them FFS! That is the real issue and the real problem that needs people to get angry about, not some arrogant prat who gleefully kill someone and hasn't got at least the good sense to destroy any video footage!

[Mike_Mac]

tommunster10 said:

Mike_Mac said:

tommunster10 said:

I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad

I've snipped all the 'outrage' and similar bits and focused on your comments above, which just amplify what I said before. Mental illness, especially when brought on by extreme stress rather than an inherent condition, is not some sort of 'once you've got it you're a 'mentalist' ' state. Very far from it.

Your comments just highlight that it is you who have no understanding of what PTSD, or any other stress-induced mental illness actually is, but you nevertheless still feel compelled to comment and assert that he's either making it up or not safe to be in the streets and that PH doesn't understand mental illness!

Please at least try and understand what you're talking about before chucking around 'mental' comments.

Edited by Mike_Mac on Thursday 16th March 11:49

His team funded by Daily Mail readers have found a loop hole and played the 'mental' card... now normally the Daily Mail and it's type would have a field day over 'playing a card'.
If this were some chav or a Muslim using this to get out of jail the conversation would be different for sure.
Plenty of decent soldiers around why help this one? The UK jails are full of soldiers, the UK government treats them so badly there is a bloomin charity to help them FFS! That is the real issue and the real problem that needs people to get angry about, not some arrogant prat who gleefully kill someone and hasn't got at least the good sense to destroy any video footage!

All of what you've said up there is completely irrelevant to my comments, which had nothing to do with Al Blackman specifically- but rather much more to do with your attitude and lack of knowledge of mental illness. By all means deflect into an anti-DM rant but that's got naff all to do with the point I'm making.

[Pebbles167]

Mike_Mac said:

tommunster10 said:

I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad

I've snipped all the 'outrage' and similar bits and focused on your comments above, which just amplify what I said before. Mental illness, especially when brought on by extreme stress rather than an inherent condition, is not some sort of 'once you've got it you're a 'mentalist' ' state. Very far from it.

Your comments just highlight that it is you who have no understanding of what PTSD, or any other stress-induced mental illness actually is, but you nevertheless still feel compelled to comment and assert that he's either making it up or not safe to be in the streets and that PH doesn't understand mental illness!

Please at least try and understand what you're talking about before chucking around 'mental' comments.

Edited by Mike_Mac on Thursday 16th March 11:49

From what I've read and been told, mental illness is different for everyone, you're both correct in the way it manifests itself. There is clearly weight in what's being said as in some cases, ie: safety critical forms/interviews, they will always ask you if your medical history includes having been treated for depression and stress previously. There is a risk, however small, that someone suffering from PTSD could go on a spree or kill someone, there is a precedent for it too. True enough too, that someone who was previously fine can suddenly snap and do the same, but I'd guess the risk is higher with someone experiencing PTSD/Depression or any other disorder.

As for Blackman, it's hard for anyone to truly say whether PTSD was a factor or not in this case. I think there are shreds of truth in there at least, as a Sergeant shooting an unarmed combatant isn't a move someone of sound mind would make. But ultimately I think it's serving as a convenient way to lessen his charge here, although I'm actually glad they did for various reasons. I don't like the idea of a life sentence for murder given the circumstances and the fact the victim was the enemy. I think Sgt Blackman has got lucky here, hopefully it will be a warning to others, and something like this will be less likely to happen again on the future.

[tommunster10]

I agree, I don't think this guy is a good poster boy for it though. Far rather it be highlighted how the UK treats its servicemen and women after they have serviced the country.
Many are homeless or in jail or battling drink and drugs and mental health issues. Why focus on this one guy?
Because it's easy outrage and allows people to not bother with the rest of it.

On PH (or any forum really) it takes seconds once someone disagrees with you to get posts with "your mental" "that's retarded" "are you mentally ill?"

I have only ever reported one post on here and it was someone calling another poster a "retard"... it never got removed. So spare me the faux outrage please...

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 12:22

[Mike_Mac]

tommunster10 said:

... On PH (or any forum really) it takes seconds once someone disagrees with you to get posts with "your mental" "that's retarded" "are you mentally ill?"

I have only ever reported one post on here and it was someone calling another poster a "retard"... it never got removed. So spare me the faux outrage please...

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 12:22

I wouldn't say I'm particularly 'outraged', and your comment wasn't calling someone a mentalist as an insult, but rather referring to people with actual mental illness as such, which is the consistent point I have picked up and you have largely ignored except as a bridge to a different point (the DM seems most common so far).

I have a fair amount of experience with people with PTSD as well as other mental conditions (no I'm not a psychiatrist before you ask) so your rather crass comments on a subject I do have experience of annoys me. If you want to claim a win by 'triggered snowflake' default, then please crack on.

[tommunster10]

Mike_Mac said:

tommunster10 said:

... On PH (or any forum really) it takes seconds once someone disagrees with you to get posts with "your mental" "that's retarded" "are you mentally ill?"

I have only ever reported one post on here and it was someone calling another poster a "retard"... it never got removed. So spare me the faux outrage please...

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 12:22

I wouldn't say I'm particularly 'outraged', and your comment wasn't calling someone a mentalist as an insult, but rather referring to people with actual mental illness as such, which is the consistent point I have picked up and you have largely ignored except as a bridge to a different point (the DM seems most common so far).

I have a fair amount of experience with people with PTSD as well as other mental conditions (no I'm not a psychiatrist before you ask) so your rather crass comments on a subject I do have experience of annoys me. If you want to claim a win by 'triggered snowflake' default, then please crack on.

I agree with you, I was rather acting crass to turn the point on its head. For example you don't have to go far to find "lib'tard" being banded about freely on here (I think we all know what 'tard is) or many other crass words aimed at people with differing opinions.

I'm more about making the point that suddenly DM readers are behind someone with a mental illness...because he fits into their demographic..

[GM182]

If those who are interested in the case want further information last night's Panorama on the topic sets the scene of the killing in detail with interviews from other guys in the platoon.

I thought it was a well-balanced programme.

FWIW I think manslaughter is definitely the right charge and time served should probably see him released soon.

[DanielSan]

tommunster10 said:

OK but separate your pathetic outage and "look at me i'm outraged!", from the fact this chap got off based on "he's mentally ill". Regardless of if he should of been in jail.
So calm down.
I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad so as to get out of prison...hmm.
Even more so for the thousands of proper soldiers with REAL mental illness but who haven't found themselves gleefully killing an injured human on camera.

I'm sure you'll be OUTRAGED! you little snowflake.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 11:31

I'm genuinely not sure why you call anyone who disagrees with you on here a snowflake and constantly post your incessant nonsensical ramblings but I'd argue it's not Al Blackman whose a mentalist as you stated, it's you.

[Magog]

GM182 said:

If those who are interested in the case want further information last night's Panorama on the topic sets the scene of the killing in detail with interviews from other guys in the platoon.

I thought it was a well-balanced programme.

FWIW I think manslaughter is definitely the right charge and time served should probably see him released soon.

To add to that, if anyone wants a sane and balanced explanation of the legal side of things then this is worth a read:

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/15/the-mari...

[anonymous-user]

tommunster10 said:

His team funded by Daily Mail readers have found a loop hole and played the 'mental' card... now normally the Daily Mail and it's type would have a field day over 'playing a card'.

You demonstrate such finesse and a profound understanding of MH along with the legal issues and considerations when you write things like 'loop hole' and 'playing the mental card'.

[tommunster10]

DanielSan said:

tommunster10 said:

OK but separate your pathetic outage and "look at me i'm outraged!", from the fact this chap got off based on "he's mentally ill". Regardless of if he should of been in jail.
So calm down.
I'm more concerned that if he is actually mentally ill and not just finding loop holes to get him out (ha!) that he isn't safe to be walking the streets considering he could mistakenly in a paranoid break down kill someone he thought was trying to do him harm...
The fact that he most likely will walk out to book deals and interviews with Piers Morgan etc and he's not actually mad at all is obviously the true outcome from it all... so in fact is it more offensive to PRETEND to be mad so as to get out of prison...hmm.
Even more so for the thousands of proper soldiers with REAL mental illness but who haven't found themselves gleefully killing an injured human on camera.

I'm sure you'll be OUTRAGED! you little snowflake.

Edited by tommunster10 on Thursday 16th March 11:31

I'm genuinely not sure why you call anyone who disagrees with you on here a snowflake and constantly post your incessant nonsensical ramblings but I'd argue it's not Al Blackman whose a mentalist as you stated, it's you.

And there it is!! Accusing a poster of being mentally ill. Genius, cheers for sinking into the trap so easily... a real right on campaigner for mental illness you turned out to be..

I use snowflake because the alt right love to use it...but hate it when it comes back to them..you know when they are acting like snowflakes like "whaaaaa, soldier can't gleefully shoot a terrorist and film it!! whaaaa!!!! let him free!!! whaaaaaa, quick wheres that petition!!! whaaaa whaaaa..."

[tommunster10]

La Liga said:

tommunster10 said:

His team funded by Daily Mail readers have found a loop hole and played the 'mental' card... now normally the Daily Mail and it's type would have a field day over 'playing a card'.

You demonstrate such finesse and a profound understanding of MH along with the legal issues and considerations when you write things like 'loop hole' and 'playing the mental card'.

So no one ever said "playing the race card" before on PH? If you were equally scathing of that then fair play I wasn't aiming my barb towards yourself but others on PH..

[anonymous-user]

tommunster10 said:

La Liga said:

tommunster10 said:

His team funded by Daily Mail readers have found a loop hole and played the 'mental' card... now normally the Daily Mail and it's type would have a field day over 'playing a card'.

You demonstrate such finesse and a profound understanding of MH along with the legal issues and considerations when you write things like 'loop hole' and 'playing the mental card'.

So no one ever said "playing the race card" before on PH? If you were equally scathing of that then fair play I wasn't aiming my barb towards yourself but others on PH..

They probably have, but that has nothing to do with what you wrote. The problem is you started off with a flippantly-worded post by calling him 'mental' and a 'mentalist' and you've been unable to back-down from that and have just kept digging.

You're belittling the medical evidence that allowed him to successfully prove diminished responsibility by calling it a 'loop hole' / 'card' for seemingly no good reason.

As above, have a read of this summary of the judgement: https://thesecretbarrister.com/2017/03/15/the-mari...

Blog said:

After his conviction but before his sentence, a psychiatric report was obtained, which opined that Blackman might be suffering from an undetected combat stress disorder. This was new – there had been no suggestion at the original trial that Blackman was mentally unwell; his (rather implausible) defence had been that he thought the insurgent was dead when he shot him. However the psychiatric report set bells ringing, and a number of further reports were obtained in the course of the CCRC investigation. Three psychiatrists all agreed that at the time of the killing, Blackman was suffering from adjustment disorder, a recognised medical condition with symptoms that include depressed mood, anxiety, inability to cope with a situation and a degree of disability in performance of daily routine. Out of the 20 to 25% of all soldiers who suffer mental health problems, the most common diagnosis is adjustment disorder. The symptoms are often masked and not apparent, either to the person suffering or to onlookers. A sufferer might appear to others to plan and act with apparent rationality. In Blackman’s case, each expert, who had carefully examined him, agreed that this abnormality of mental functioning substantially impaired his ability to form a rational judgment and exercise self-control. In other words, that the defence of diminished responsibility was made out.

[DanielSan]

tommunster10 said:

And there it is!! Accusing a poster of being mentally ill. Genius, cheers for sinking into the trap so easily... a real right on campaigner for mental illness you turned out to be..

I use snowflake because the alt right love to use it...but hate it when it comes back to them..you know when they are acting like snowflakes like "whaaaaa, soldier can't gleefully shoot a terrorist and film it!! whaaaa!!!! let him free!!! whaaaaaa, quick wheres that petition!!! whaaaa whaaaa..."

If that's what you think I'm doing then keep living in that little world of yours. Every post you've made is just a nonsensical rant that's typed as you think of it? Are you like this in real life or just with a screen in front of you? Genuine question.

[DanielSan]

La Liga said:

He does the same on every thread, post something then argue he's said something different despite the fact it's there to read. You should see the F1 testing thread....

[Ayahuasca]

Quite a damning indictment on the leadership of 42 Commando, by the CO of 45 Commando Lt Col Oliver Lee. Claims that 42 was badly led, ill-disciplined, one of its bases had a squalid, feral feel to it with graffiti on weapons, litter and filth everywhere, very few visits from their CO, disrespectful troops, morally bereft, and using over-aggressive tactics that caused civilian casualties.

Quite remarkable for one officer to so viciously criticise another.