ITV This Morning "Ban the burka?" poll
Discussion
Pan Pan Pan said:
Mr Snrub said:
Derek Smith said:
It is probably one of the most complex of arguments: should the burka be banned.
On the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
I don't think it's just a cultural one, but a psychological one. We judge a lot by a person's facial expressions and movements, so covering means fear and uncertainty. That's why we find gas masks so unsettling, or in any film about a dystopian future the henchmen of the evil organisation/government will have fully obscured facesOn the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Murph7355 said:
WinstonWolf said:
It's not prejudice, it's an opinion. No one ever grows up thinking "when I'm an adult I'll cover myself from head to toe so no one can see me" unless they've been indoctrinated.
How do you know? I imagine few people grow up thinking "when I grow up I'll wear a cassock" but after some religious indoctrination a good number do, even though I think it looks outmoded in this day and age. Doesn't mean it should be outlawed though, does it?
If something doesn't harm others, adding laws to it is daft and intolerant. And if you do so selectively it is prejudiced. Uncomfortable as that may sound to you.
Where does the desire to cover oneself from head to toe come from if one isn't introduced to it? It's not natural behaviour, it has to be introduced to someone. Time to educate people out of this medieval tradition.
I'm no more prejudiced than you'd be if you met someone wearing a hoodie and a bandana in a dark alley. If you weren't suspicious you're not going to last long.
By all means wear it but if it's that important move to a country still stuck the middle ages.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Are they all terrorists then? They hiding bombs behind the face covering?WinstonWolf said:
Murph7355 said:
WinstonWolf said:
It's not prejudice, it's an opinion. No one ever grows up thinking "when I'm an adult I'll cover myself from head to toe so no one can see me" unless they've been indoctrinated.
How do you know? I imagine few people grow up thinking "when I grow up I'll wear a cassock" but after some religious indoctrination a good number do, even though I think it looks outmoded in this day and age. Doesn't mean it should be outlawed though, does it?
If something doesn't harm others, adding laws to it is daft and intolerant. And if you do so selectively it is prejudiced. Uncomfortable as that may sound to you.
Where does the desire to cover oneself from head to toe come from if one isn't introduced to it? It's not natural behaviour, it has to be introduced to someone. Time to educate people out of this medieval tradition.
I'm no more prejudiced than you'd be if you met someone wearing a hoodie and a bandana in a dark alley. If you weren't suspicious you're not going to last long.
By all means wear it but if it's that important move to a country still stuck the middle ages.
98elise said:
WinstonWolf said:
Murph7355 said:
WinstonWolf said:
It's not prejudice, it's an opinion. No one ever grows up thinking "when I'm an adult I'll cover myself from head to toe so no one can see me" unless they've been indoctrinated.
How do you know? I imagine few people grow up thinking "when I grow up I'll wear a cassock" but after some religious indoctrination a good number do, even though I think it looks outmoded in this day and age. Doesn't mean it should be outlawed though, does it?
If something doesn't harm others, adding laws to it is daft and intolerant. And if you do so selectively it is prejudiced. Uncomfortable as that may sound to you.
Where does the desire to cover oneself from head to toe come from if one isn't introduced to it? It's not natural behaviour, it has to be introduced to someone. Time to educate people out of this medieval tradition.
I'm no more prejudiced than you'd be if you met someone wearing a hoodie and a bandana in a dark alley. If you weren't suspicious you're not going to last long.
By all means wear it but if it's that important move to a country still stuck the middle ages.
Challo said:
Are they all terrorists then? They hiding bombs behind the face covering?
Nope. But: 'not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslim'. A very unpleasant quote, yet the profiling regime in such places as Ben Gurion airport in Tel Aviv, have proven extremely successful. I find the whole subject very distasteful & think that banning any type of clothing ridiculous & counter-productive, but why exactly do women cover themselves? Is it a personal choice? Are they 'persuaded' by their menfolk? Is it religious brainwashing? Perhaps all of theses things.It never occurred to me that women somehow have less rights than me or are somehow second class humans....
Einion Yrth said:
Sikhs wearing turbans are not required to wear crash helmets, Sikhs may also carry Kirpans ("ceremonial" knives). I have no problem with Sikhs but really do struggle to see why they should have exemptions from law that I do not have.
You could always wear one and if stopped, say you're Sikh?The Spruce goose said:
yes ban it simple. freedom of speech is a stupid justification for the right to have something that is a physical barrier against integration in British society.
It's always so black and white on PH. A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
Alpinestars said:
It's always so black and white on PH.
A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
Good question.A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
Do you find my views acceptable?
))Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Can a person wearing a burka go through security at an Airport without showing their face?Alpinestars said:
It's always so black and white on PH.
A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
Can you see face of person in hoodie?A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
Identity is the issue.
Mr Snrub said:
I don't think it's just a cultural one, but a psychological one. We judge a lot by a person's facial expressions and movements, so covering means fear and uncertainty. That's why we find gas masks so unsettling, or in any film about a dystopian future the henchmen of the evil organisation/government will have fully obscured faces
I'm deaf in one ear and have problems with the other one. I depend on seeing a person's lips and expression for ease of communication. Otherwise they are talking to the wind. So for me, I'd ban the burka. For the same reasons, I'd ban moustaches that come over the top lip, but then there are aesthetic reasons for that as well.
Alpinestars said:
It's always so black and white on PH.
A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
A consensus of opinion within a democracy dictates what is acceptable and ultimately what is law. A man in high heels and a dress would likely be lynched in some British communities, and would be perfectly acceptable in others. Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable? What if I don't find your attire acceptable? Are hoodies a physical barrier?
I don't believe a consensus of opinion has been sought with regards to the burka - the discussions have always been closed down at political a levels as racism or islamophobia.
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