ITV This Morning "Ban the burka?" poll
Discussion
danllama said:
I don't think they'll do anything to me. I'm just uncomfortable with it. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that they think its acceptable (which successive governments have done nothing to combat, and have probably validated). I also get the impression that they think they are superior. That they are too good to have to talk to or look at the likes of me , and no I do not have an inferiority complex 
). That they look down on me. What can I, an ordinary man, do to combat that feeling? I get up and move away from them.
Tbf, I do also find most, if not all, religious clothing odd. Well, as I alluded to in my previous post, I find religion odd, unbearably odd, in general.
And yes I hate smelly people on the tube too, but I'd feel less confident in just getting up and moving away from them, probably because I can actually see their face
If you don't have an inferiority complex, why do you think the bits I've bolded?). That they look down on me. What can I, an ordinary man, do to combat that feeling? I get up and move away from them.Tbf, I do also find most, if not all, religious clothing odd. Well, as I alluded to in my previous post, I find religion odd, unbearably odd, in general.
And yes I hate smelly people on the tube too, but I'd feel less confident in just getting up and moving away from them, probably because I can actually see their face
If it's a religious thing, surely you should feel the same about Jews, or Hindus - they think you're an unbeliever too. In fact fundamental christians can be the most judgemental of the lot, when it comes to looking down on people.
And the fact that " I'm uncomfortable with the fact that they think its acceptable" is circular reasoning - would you be happier if they thought it was unacceptable, and wore it anyway?
AJL308 said:
Alpinestars said:
Einion Yrth said:
Sikhs wearing turbans are not required to wear crash helmets, Sikhs may also carry Kirpans ("ceremonial" knives). I have no problem with Sikhs but really do struggle to see why they should have exemptions from law that I do not have.
You could always wear one and if stopped, say you're Sikh?However, I don't think I have ever seen it in practice. Not once. Does it ever actually happen?
Discussions about the Burka, and the Burkina in France, are all the same issue. Those loudly proclaiming they should be banned are trying to treat the symptoms and not the disease.
The disease is a militant interpretation of Islam that refuses to integrate into the western societies in which its adherents find themselves. Rather than confront this, and ask what we can do about it, the easy solution is to ban something.
The disease is a militant interpretation of Islam that refuses to integrate into the western societies in which its adherents find themselves. Rather than confront this, and ask what we can do about it, the easy solution is to ban something.
danllama said:
Personally, I'd ban religion full stop. Starting with schools and ending with garments. Just get rid of it. I'd probably have to build quite a few prisons though.
I don't like burkas, or any sort of islamic clothing. They make me extremely uncomfortable. I will actively move along a carriage if they sit or stand next to me on the tube or train, and no I do not give a s
t if they notice. They want to act like I don't exist, so I will act as if they don't. I don't know what I'd do if I had to get on an aeroplane with someone dressed in a burka, luckily the situation hasn't arisen yet. So is it ok that I am made to feel uncomfortable by these people, while I go about my business without negatively affecting anybody around me? No its not ok IMO, but for some reason we have pandered to Islam in this country for so long, that they can basically get away with anything. They're almost as untouchable as pie-keys.
In my eyes the situation is being completely over complicated, when really it's very simple. It's medieval. It's backwards and regressive. It's divisive. It has no place in 2016 Britain.
Erm, moving away from someone wearing a burka on a train isn't acting like they don't exist, quite the opposite. What donyou think they are going to do to you?I don't like burkas, or any sort of islamic clothing. They make me extremely uncomfortable. I will actively move along a carriage if they sit or stand next to me on the tube or train, and no I do not give a s
t if they notice. They want to act like I don't exist, so I will act as if they don't. I don't know what I'd do if I had to get on an aeroplane with someone dressed in a burka, luckily the situation hasn't arisen yet. So is it ok that I am made to feel uncomfortable by these people, while I go about my business without negatively affecting anybody around me? No its not ok IMO, but for some reason we have pandered to Islam in this country for so long, that they can basically get away with anything. They're almost as untouchable as pie-keys.In my eyes the situation is being completely over complicated, when really it's very simple. It's medieval. It's backwards and regressive. It's divisive. It has no place in 2016 Britain.
Personally I am of the view that people, within legally defined limits, should be able to wear what they like. Going topless on the Tube is probably a step too far but you get the idea, I hope.
Burkas are problematic only because of the security issue. We have a wide range of security protocols and devices for our public areas, banks and so on that rely on facial recognition. That facial recognition is either done by humans or by CCTV. Wearing the full veil defeats the technology in an almost embarrassingly simple way. For this reason only, and only in those areas, Burkas should not be allowed. Tough st. The same should be true of motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, oversize hoodies and so on.
Otherwise people, of religion or not, should not fear to wear whatever they like in a free country like the UK.
Burkas are problematic only because of the security issue. We have a wide range of security protocols and devices for our public areas, banks and so on that rely on facial recognition. That facial recognition is either done by humans or by CCTV. Wearing the full veil defeats the technology in an almost embarrassingly simple way. For this reason only, and only in those areas, Burkas should not be allowed. Tough s
t. The same should be true of motorcycle helmets, balaclavas, oversize hoodies and so on.Otherwise people, of religion or not, should not fear to wear whatever they like in a free country like the UK.
caelite said:
Meridius said:
Of course an ITV viewership would be heavily skewed against the Burka.
ITV viewership between 1030am and 1230pm, on a weekday too. Definitely reflects the views of hardworking Brits across a wide band of ages doesn't it? Burka is not a religious clothing. Jewish black suits with hats is not religious clothing. Sikh turban is not religious clothing.
They are all cultural baggage. Some are acceptable in a foreign society, some are not. Tough st.
A hat or a turban does not affect anyone. A burka does affect public interaction.
Anyone arguing religion in this case can shut up because they are using religion as an excuse.
They are all cultural baggage. Some are acceptable in a foreign society, some are not. Tough s
t. A hat or a turban does not affect anyone. A burka does affect public interaction.
Anyone arguing religion in this case can shut up because they are using religion as an excuse.
Murph7355 said:
AJL308 said:
People covering their faces during everyday interaction does harm other people. This is not the way in which our culture operates or has ever operated. It places people who do not cover their face at an immediate disadvantage when interacting as they have no facial body language to react to.
It's fine when you live in a culture that requires women to interact almost exclusively with other women when their faces are uncovered but not in our society.
What a load of codswallop.It's fine when you live in a culture that requires women to interact almost exclusively with other women when their faces are uncovered but not in our society.
Faces being covered harms people no more than tattoos, or a mohican does. The people feeling "harmed" by such trivia need to have a look in the mirror.
I can see that some don't like it. Just as I can with tattoos etc. I can see some may find them offensive. But you can't legislate against that otherwise who decides what is and isn't offensive? I'm not keen on shell suits. Ban them! I despise beige polyester. Ban it! That sees most of Liverpool and everyone over the age of 70 screwed in terms of wardrobe
I do tend to agree with Derek about nudity etc. So I accept that potentially undermines my stance a touch. But to be perfectly honest I'm prepared to accept that. People being harmed by a burka is more to do with their...mindset...than it is the burka wearer. Nudity where not expected is different IMO.
If you want to abolish all religious garb, then I would have a lot more sympathy with the view. I'd still think we are better off allowing people to wear what they like, but I could at least accept the view as something other than deeply prejudiced.
God/Mo are toast, long live the Big Bang
Can we talk headphones. Does anyone find headphones a barrier to good social integration? I mean how on earth does one strike up a conversation with a heady?
I now tend to walk the 7 miles into work because I find them highly unsociable. I used to move away from people wearing them on the underground, but because a large majority of commuters from the ghetto I live in now wear them, I couldn't get away from them on the train. So wearing out shoe leather is my only option.
PS, I tend to cross the road if I see one of them coming towards me as well. You never know what weird stuff they might be listening to.
PPS, I particularly dislike those big, on-head, Sennheiser ones. Wearers have an air of arrogance and superiority about them.
I now tend to walk the 7 miles into work because I find them highly unsociable. I used to move away from people wearing them on the underground, but because a large majority of commuters from the ghetto I live in now wear them, I couldn't get away from them on the train. So wearing out shoe leather is my only option.
PS, I tend to cross the road if I see one of them coming towards me as well. You never know what weird stuff they might be listening to.
PPS, I particularly dislike those big, on-head, Sennheiser ones. Wearers have an air of arrogance and superiority about them.
Edited by Alpinestars on Thursday 8th December 08:38
Einion Yrth said:
AJL308 said:
Alpinestars said:
Einion Yrth said:
Sikhs wearing turbans are not required to wear crash helmets, Sikhs may also carry Kirpans ("ceremonial" knives). I have no problem with Sikhs but really do struggle to see why they should have exemptions from law that I do not have.
You could always wear one and if stopped, say you're Sikh?However, I don't think I have ever seen it in practice. Not once. Does it ever actually happen?
What I find most offensive is the fact that on my travels (e.g. Istanbul and Doha recently) I've seen many couples where the guy is in jeans, t-shirt and trainers whilst the wife is in the full on Burka.
I'd mind it less if both sexes wore it. Then they could say 'it's our culture to be modest', it really is the blatant sexism that winds me up.
I have a GP friend who works in East London, she sees quite a few of these ladies for reasons such as Vit D deficiency (they live in flats, no garden and can only go outside fully covered) and depression due to isolotation.
Quite alarmingly she also reports that a translator is often needed despite a lot of these ladies being second or even third generation - they just haven't learnt any English amd have not been put through the school system.
I'd mind it less if both sexes wore it. Then they could say 'it's our culture to be modest', it really is the blatant sexism that winds me up.
I have a GP friend who works in East London, she sees quite a few of these ladies for reasons such as Vit D deficiency (they live in flats, no garden and can only go outside fully covered) and depression due to isolotation.
Quite alarmingly she also reports that a translator is often needed despite a lot of these ladies being second or even third generation - they just haven't learnt any English amd have not been put through the school system.
caelite said:
Biker 1 said:
Alpinestars said:
Who makes the rules as to what is acceptable?
PH of course!
: does that make me 100% white British? Combined household income is around average - does that make me rich??Whatever, I guess I tick most of the PH boxes & at least have one fast vehicle
Alpinestars said:
Can we talk headphones. Does anyone find headphones a barrier to good social integration? I mean how on earth does one strike up a conversation with a heady?
I now tend to walk the 7 miles into work because I find them highly unsociable. I used to move away from people wearing them on the underground, but because a large majority of commuters from the ghetto I live in now wear them, I couldn't get away from them on the train. So wearing out shoe leather is my only option.
PS, I tend to cross the road if I see one of them coming towards me as well. You never know what weird stuff they might be listening to.
PPS, I particularly dislike those big, on-head, Sennheiser ones. Wearers have an air of arrogance and superiority about them.
Are you picking on me, I'm deaf in one ear I now tend to walk the 7 miles into work because I find them highly unsociable. I used to move away from people wearing them on the underground, but because a large majority of commuters from the ghetto I live in now wear them, I couldn't get away from them on the train. So wearing out shoe leather is my only option.
PS, I tend to cross the road if I see one of them coming towards me as well. You never know what weird stuff they might be listening to.
PPS, I particularly dislike those big, on-head, Sennheiser ones. Wearers have an air of arrogance and superiority about them.
Edited by Alpinestars on Thursday 8th December 08:38
Murph7355 said:
danllama said:
I don't think they'll do anything to me. I'm just uncomfortable with it. I'm uncomfortable with the fact that they think its acceptable (which successive governments have done nothing to combat, and have probably validated). I also get the impression that they think they are superior. That they are too good to have to talk to or look at the likes of me (and no I do not have an inferiority complex ). That they look down on me. What can I, an ordinary man, do to combat that feeling? I get up and move away from them.
Tbf, I do also find most, if not all, religious clothing odd. Well, as I alluded to in my previous post, I find religion odd, unbearably odd, in general.
And yes I hate smelly people on the tube too, but I'd feel less confident in just getting up and moving away from them, probably because I can actually see their face
You do realise people in burkas can see out of them? ). That they look down on me. What can I, an ordinary man, do to combat that feeling? I get up and move away from them.Tbf, I do also find most, if not all, religious clothing odd. Well, as I alluded to in my previous post, I find religion odd, unbearably odd, in general.
And yes I hate smelly people on the tube too, but I'd feel less confident in just getting up and moving away from them, probably because I can actually see their face
Is a burka the only thing that makes you feel that way? Do you not think your reaction is in any way....irrational? You know that they aren't going to hurt you, but you'd rather stand next to someone stinking to high heaven than someone with a veil on....
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