ITV This Morning "Ban the burka?" poll
Discussion
Lucas CAV said:
Alpinestars said:
Lucas CAV said:
Funnily enough I saw a helmet less Sikh riding a 600 Bandit in Wolverhampton the other day.
How does that work? What kind of helmet was it?And how do you know it belonged to a Sikh?
Am I being daft or are you?
A helmet (less Sikh) would be a very strange sight riding a bike. A helmetless sikh (or sikh without a helmet), less so.
Alpinestars said:
WinstonWolf said:
Are you picking on me, I'm deaf in one ear 
That's down to the haircut!But it's an interesting insight. Until I get my titanium ear speech is often muffled, you can easily get by just by watching someone's face for a visual clue of how to react.
You know when auntie Doris/Gita is rambling on and all you hear is a muffled sound as you zone out, that's my world
Unless you're Aspie you can look around a room and suss everyone out just by looking at their face, subtle gestures can warm you to people or warn them off. All that's lost when the face is hidden....
WinstonWolf said:
Long gone thankfully!
But it's an interesting insight. Until I get my titanium ear speech is often muffled, you can easily get by just by watching someone's face for a visual clue of how to react.
You know when auntie Doris/Gita is rambling on and all you hear is a muffled sound as you zone out, that's my world
Unless you're Aspie you can look around a room and suss everyone out just by looking at their face, subtle gestures can warm you to people or warn them off. All that's lost when the face is hidden....
Agreed. But it's an interesting insight. Until I get my titanium ear speech is often muffled, you can easily get by just by watching someone's face for a visual clue of how to react.
You know when auntie Doris/Gita is rambling on and all you hear is a muffled sound as you zone out, that's my world
Unless you're Aspie you can look around a room and suss everyone out just by looking at their face, subtle gestures can warm you to people or warn them off. All that's lost when the face is hidden....
jdw100 said:
What I find most offensive is the fact that on my travels (e.g. Istanbul and Doha recently) I've seen many couples where the guy is in jeans, t-shirt and trainers whilst the wife is in the full on Burka.
I'd mind it less if both sexes wore it. Then they could say 'it's our culture to be modest', it really is the blatant sexism that winds me up.
I have a GP friend who works in East London, she sees quite a few of these ladies for reasons such as Vit D deficiency (they live in flats, no garden and can only go outside fully covered) and depression due to isolotation.
Quite alarmingly she also reports that a translator is often needed despite a lot of these ladies being second or even third generation - they just haven't learnt any English amd have not been put through the school system.
No need to be offended - it is freedom of choice .... just gods way...I'd mind it less if both sexes wore it. Then they could say 'it's our culture to be modest', it really is the blatant sexism that winds me up.
I have a GP friend who works in East London, she sees quite a few of these ladies for reasons such as Vit D deficiency (they live in flats, no garden and can only go outside fully covered) and depression due to isolotation.
Quite alarmingly she also reports that a translator is often needed despite a lot of these ladies being second or even third generation - they just haven't learnt any English amd have not been put through the school system.
In our rush to support their "freedom" the vitamin d deficiency is never mentioned. The black sheet might work in the Middle East where they have sunshine but tower hamlets is not as sunny. It is also difficult to exercise whilst covered head to toe.
Add in first cousin marriages and you have a smorkersborg of health issues.
C.A.R. said:
I know I'll get shot down for pointing this out but one of the 7/7 bombers did evade CCTV by wearing a Burka. It was only when footage was reviewed that he was picked up.
Just to give the whole 'mistrust' thing a bit of traction. It is justified.
People always think they are really clever when they point that out, but ban burkas and someone does a crime and to try to evade they dress as a woman, wig, sunglasses, dress.... what do we do then? Ban dress's, ban transvestites? Ban women?Just to give the whole 'mistrust' thing a bit of traction. It is justified.
Rob a bank cover face with tights...ban tights?
I'm quite happy for someone to deliberately dress in a way which marks them out and makes a statement.
However I reserve the right to form an opinion of, and modify my behaviour towards, people based on those choices.
My opinion of people in burkhas and various other religious uniforms is rather low.
However I reserve the right to form an opinion of, and modify my behaviour towards, people based on those choices.
My opinion of people in burkhas and various other religious uniforms is rather low.
chrispmartha said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Can a person wearing a burka go through security at an Airport without showing their face?But if you mean can they get through Immigration - No. They will be asked to confirm their identity which will involve removing their veil, albeit likely in a more private area than the main immigration hall.
Shakermaker said:
chrispmartha said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Can a person wearing a burka go through security at an Airport without showing their face?But if you mean can they get through Immigration - No. They will be asked to confirm their identity which will involve removing their veil, albeit likely in a more private area than the main immigration hall.
Alpinestars said:
Lucas CAV said:
Alpinestars said:
Lucas CAV said:
Funnily enough I saw a helmet less Sikh riding a 600 Bandit in Wolverhampton the other day.
How does that work? What kind of helmet was it?And how do you know it belonged to a Sikh?
Am I being daft or are you?
A helmet (less Sikh) would be a very strange sight riding a bike. A helmetless sikh (or sikh without a helmet), less so.
The penny drops more slowly for some
(yes, I also have had the whoosh parrot; just the one mind you)
danllama said:
Can i see their facial reactions? Fear has nothing to do with it. Its completely rational to dislike something that goes against human nature. I didn't say id rather stand next to a smelly person, i said id be less likely to move, maybe because i could actually recognise a reaction in their faces
Human nature is to group things and want to belong to groups (there are exceptions).The majority of the group you associate with does not wear a burka. Therefore you find it strange and instinctively classify it as "wrong".
However... if you were a burka clad woman mixing exclusively/predominantly with burka clad women, you wouldn't see it thus in all likelihood.
The beauty of living in a free society is that you (and they) are allowed to mix in whichever groups you want. Banning one group doing something that is important to them because it makes another group feel uncomfortable, when it is doing no actual harm, is intolerant. Doing so on very specific religious grounds is being prejudiced.
As a society we elected to mix it up over 100yrs ago. Likely a consequence of Empire for better or worse. I happen to think a diverse society is a good thing for all. Even if I cannot understand certain customs, as long as they are not harming those who choose not to take part in them, or force G others to take part, I welcome them as one way or another there are things to be learnt.
tommunster10 said:
C.A.R. said:
I know I'll get shot down for pointing this out but one of the 7/7 bombers did evade CCTV by wearing a Burka. It was only when footage was reviewed that he was picked up.
Just to give the whole 'mistrust' thing a bit of traction. It is justified.
People always think they are really clever when they point that out, but ban burkas and someone does a crime and to try to evade they dress as a woman, wig, sunglasses, dress.... what do we do then? Ban dress's, ban transvestites? Ban women?Just to give the whole 'mistrust' thing a bit of traction. It is justified.
Rob a bank cover face with tights...ban tights?
chrispmartha said:
Shakermaker said:
chrispmartha said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Can a person wearing a burka go through security at an Airport without showing their face?But if you mean can they get through Immigration - No. They will be asked to confirm their identity which will involve removing their veil, albeit likely in a more private area than the main immigration hall.
If wearing a hat, glasses, or burka it will not open the turnstile/gate for you.
Your photo is then compared prior to boarding.
Goaty Bill 2 said:
chrispmartha said:
Shakermaker said:
chrispmartha said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Can a person wearing a burka go through security at an Airport without showing their face?But if you mean can they get through Immigration - No. They will be asked to confirm their identity which will involve removing their veil, albeit likely in a more private area than the main immigration hall.
If wearing a hat, glasses, or burka it will not open the turnstile/gate for you.
Your photo is then compared prior to boarding.
chrispmartha said:
OK so can security asked a person wearing a Burka to show their face? I honestly don't know so it's not a leading question
Yes, they can, they might take them off to a side room that is used for privacy, and asking them to remove their veil is allowed in exactly the same way that they can ask you or I to come with them to remove your clothes as well. Not to check identity, but to check for any prohibited items.If that person refuses to remove their veil then they will likely be denied access to the airport and not be permitted to fly - it is all covered in the same legislation that covers UK airport security.
You would not get a Male staff member taking a female wearing a veil to make this check
Goaty Bill 2 said:
chrispmartha said:
Shakermaker said:
chrispmartha said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Should there be a rule that anyone pitching up at an airport etc with full face covering such as a burqa, should be required to undergo a strip search. if they have nothing to hide, there should not be any objection to doing this. alternatively just pitch up with the face uncovered, Simple solution.
Can a person wearing a burka go through security at an Airport without showing their face?But if you mean can they get through Immigration - No. They will be asked to confirm their identity which will involve removing their veil, albeit likely in a more private area than the main immigration hall.
If wearing a hat, glasses, or burka it will not open the turnstile/gate for you.
Your photo is then compared prior to boarding.
AJL308 said:
People covering their faces during everyday interaction does harm other people. This is not the way in which our culture operates or has ever operated. It places people who do not cover their face at an immediate disadvantage when interacting as they have no facial body language to react to.
It's fine when you live in a culture that requires women to interact almost exclusively with other women when their faces are uncovered but not in our society.
Who here has been disadvantaged when having a conversation with a woman wearing a burqa? How would the conversation have been different if they were not wearing a burqa?It's fine when you live in a culture that requires women to interact almost exclusively with other women when their faces are uncovered but not in our society.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff