ITV This Morning "Ban the burka?" poll
Discussion
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
Quick question for those concerned with 'integration': How many meaningful social exchanges have you had with non-veiled Muslim women, where you feel that both of you have made positive strides towards the integration of both your societies, and where it would be sadly impossible to do the same with a veiled Muslim woman? Rounded up to the nearest 10 would be fine.
Veiled Muslim women don't interact, that's the whole point...Alpinestars said:
irocfan said:
There is little difference there, I wonder if you can guess what it is?
That's right headphone wearers generally remove them whilst talking (at least polite ones do)... burka clad women not so much
Have you tried talking to one on a morning train? They get all superior on you. That's right headphone wearers generally remove them whilst talking (at least polite ones do)... burka clad women not so much
Chill out.
Challo said:
18 pages long and some of reasons given to ban it are comical.
As i mentioned before I dont see the issue with people wanting to wear a Burka. Its a choice they have made to wear it, and as a tolerant western country then we should let people wear want they want. If you ban it on religious terms then you need to ban all other religious clothing.
If you ban it on security grounds then you need also ban hoods, hats, scarfs, wigs etc which people wear day to day as they also can hide people identities.
There is a comment about integration and I do understand the issues people have and they feel a burka can cause. In that case its for both sides to make the effort to integrate and not just point blank refuse just because of a veil.
You really think you can have a friendship with someone whose face you cant see ?As i mentioned before I dont see the issue with people wanting to wear a Burka. Its a choice they have made to wear it, and as a tolerant western country then we should let people wear want they want. If you ban it on religious terms then you need to ban all other religious clothing.
If you ban it on security grounds then you need also ban hoods, hats, scarfs, wigs etc which people wear day to day as they also can hide people identities.
There is a comment about integration and I do understand the issues people have and they feel a burka can cause. In that case its for both sides to make the effort to integrate and not just point blank refuse just because of a veil.
You can tell all the women with cancer they cant wear a wig, because it is unfair to ban Burka's and not other head coverings.
Say you live with your wife and 13 year old daughter on a street where all the other woman wear veils and the young girls wear a tight headscarf.
Your wife would have no friends as I don't believe you can have a friendship without a face.
The young men on the street, who have never seen their mother outside of the house without a veil and their sisters without a tight headscarf and drab clothing, would have a very strange view /perception of your 13 year daughter in her English clothes with her English freedoms.
But it would be 50% your wives fault for not making more of an effort to integrate and make friends with these women - who faces she cant see.
Your 13 year old daughter could spend her time with the young boys explaining that there was nothing wrong with her clothes and freedoms, I imagine some of them would be happy to integrate themselves with her.
We run the risk of raising a generation of young men who have a very odd view of non muslim white girls.
Just a moment do we not already have an issue with Muslim men having odd views of young white girls...
TTwiggy said:
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
Quick question for those concerned with 'integration': How many meaningful social exchanges have you had with non-veiled Muslim women, where you feel that both of you have made positive strides towards the integration of both your societies, and where it would be sadly impossible to do the same with a veiled Muslim woman? Rounded up to the nearest 10 would be fine.
Veiled Muslim women don't interact, that's the whole point...Countdown said:
WinstonWolf said:
Veiled Muslim women don't interact, that's the whole point...
They interact fine, in my experience. Have you ever spoken to any?ETA Adequately is probably a better description. But it's not something that's insurmountable.
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
Quick question for those concerned with 'integration': How many meaningful social exchanges have you had with non-veiled Muslim women, where you feel that both of you have made positive strides towards the integration of both your societies, and where it would be sadly impossible to do the same with a veiled Muslim woman? Rounded up to the nearest 10 would be fine.
Veiled Muslim women don't interact, that's the whole point...TTwiggy said:
Quick question for those concerned with 'integration': How many meaningful social exchanges have you had with non-veiled Muslim women, where you feel that both of you have made positive strides towards the integration of both your societies, and where it would be sadly impossible to do the same with a veiled Muslim woman? Rounded up to the nearest 10 would be fine.
They're always approaching non-veiled Muslim women for a friendly chat. Obviously.Maybe we need a catchy phrase to promote integration? Something like Cameron's Hug A Hoodie campaign.
Grab a niqab?
Perk up a burqa?
Cocktail with a veil? Oh, that one doesn't work does it?
TTwiggy said:
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
Quick question for those concerned with 'integration': How many meaningful social exchanges have you had with non-veiled Muslim women, where you feel that both of you have made positive strides towards the integration of both your societies, and where it would be sadly impossible to do the same with a veiled Muslim woman? Rounded up to the nearest 10 would be fine.
Veiled Muslim women don't interact, that's the whole point...Roman Rhodes said:
I honestly don't think it is a struggle to understand what aspects of an "extreme interpretation" of a religion are acceptable.
Covering your face unless required for practical reasons (safety and security primarily): Acceptable.
"Killing all non-believers": Unacceptable.
Taking your Swiss example, the Swiss courts have ruled: Unacceptable.
"The idea of rights is the Bain of modern society, we will end up in knots trying to work out whose rights are important." So you'd prefer it if no-one had any rights? Easier to avoid getting in knots if we don't invent lots of hypothetical 'what ifs'. We have a system of laws in place designed to support a fair and harmonious society. Their success is a different debate. This debate is about introducing another law - to ban the burqa. My view is that such a law would not be helpful, in fact quite the reverse. That is not the same as saying the burqa is a 'good thing' or that their aren't issues regarding integration and segregation - it is simply saying that these issues are more complex and need a considered approach if we want a more cohesive society. The recent Casey report raises many good points.
So some extreme interpretations of Islamic religious texts are ok - excellent, perhaps you can work with Anjem Choudray to come up with which ones you are ok with. You may not think it is a struggle but the rest of the Muslim World find it very difficult.Covering your face unless required for practical reasons (safety and security primarily): Acceptable.
"Killing all non-believers": Unacceptable.
Taking your Swiss example, the Swiss courts have ruled: Unacceptable.
"The idea of rights is the Bain of modern society, we will end up in knots trying to work out whose rights are important." So you'd prefer it if no-one had any rights? Easier to avoid getting in knots if we don't invent lots of hypothetical 'what ifs'. We have a system of laws in place designed to support a fair and harmonious society. Their success is a different debate. This debate is about introducing another law - to ban the burqa. My view is that such a law would not be helpful, in fact quite the reverse. That is not the same as saying the burqa is a 'good thing' or that their aren't issues regarding integration and segregation - it is simply saying that these issues are more complex and need a considered approach if we want a more cohesive society. The recent Casey report raises many good points.
I don't understand why the rights of the young Swiss boy to follow his religious beliefs are less important than the teachers rights to be treat with respect and common decency.
Why should we even attempt to "integrate" people who make a conscious decision to exclude themselves from our society? Preferring instead to publicly display their adherence to a ultra conservative form of religion which is largely hostile to everything free and open societies like our own stand for.
Dindoit said:
TTwiggy said:
Quick question for those concerned with 'integration': How many meaningful social exchanges have you had with non-veiled Muslim women, where you feel that both of you have made positive strides towards the integration of both your societies, and where it would be sadly impossible to do the same with a veiled Muslim woman? Rounded up to the nearest 10 would be fine.
They're always approaching non-veiled Muslim women for a friendly chat. Obviously.Maybe we need a catchy phrase to promote integration? Something like Cameron's Hug A Hoodie campaign.
Grab a niqab?
Perk up a burqa?
Cocktail with a veil? Oh, that one doesn't work does it?
Our families have been on holiday many times - we went to Nice the week after the Terrorist attack. Her 9 year old daughter was worried about Terrorists - don't worry they will all be down the mosque.
She wear a tankini not a string bikini and feels no need to cover herself head to toe in a black sheet when she sees me.
Could I have a friendship and go on a summer holiday with a woman whose face I had never seen ?
Countdown said:
WinstonWolf said:
Veiled Muslim women don't interact, that's the whole point...
They interact fine, in my experience. Have you ever spoken to any?ETA Adequately is probably a better description. But it's not something that's insurmountable.
How do you find you interact with right wing Nazi white supremacists ?
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
SKP555 said:
everything free and open societies like our own stand for.
Like getting pissed and topless pictures in newspapers?
http://www.page3.com/sol/homepage/page3/
TTwiggy said:
WinstonWolf said:
TTwiggy said:
SKP555 said:
everything free and open societies like our own stand for.
Like getting pissed and topless pictures in newspapers?http://www.page3.com/sol/homepage/page3/
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