ITV This Morning "Ban the burka?" poll
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
WinstonWolf said:
Education is key, no woman would choose to wear one unless she's been exposed to indoctrination at some point in her life. We need to educate people that wearing one is rude and the Brits don't like bad manners...
Generally I wouldn't go assuming what the one woman in my life would choose to do, let alone them all. I'm sure there are some women compelled to wear one who don't want to. That is wrong. Equally I'm sure that there are some who are fine enough wearing it as a symbol/part of their beliefs. To preclude them from doing so in law is also wrong.
That you or I do not understand their religion and the drivers behind some customs is irrelevant and a bigger damning indictment on us than them frankly.
If you're gunning for religious garb then ban it all. But we cannot allow our own prejudices to single people out in law.
AJL308 said:
No Muslim woman will ever "integrate" with wider UK society if they keep their faces covered. Banning the wearing of full-face coverings in public will far better integrate people than continuing to allow them.
The veil isn't a religious requirement, it could be argued that it is cultural but not in the UK. The wearing of the face veil is basically a statement that the wearer does not want to integrate.
Hosenbugler said:
Goaty Bill 2 said:
Jasandjules said:
Here are the women in 1970s Iran... What is missing?
Ayatollah KhomeiniWhatever one may think of Iran today however, it has been somewhat dialled back since Khomeini's time.
WinstonWolf said:
It's not prejudice, it's an opinion. No one ever grows up thinking "when I'm an adult I'll cover myself from head to toe so no one can see me" unless they've been indoctrinated.
How do you know? I imagine few people grow up thinking "when I grow up I'll wear a cassock" but after some religious indoctrination a good number do, even though I think it looks outmoded in this day and age. Doesn't mean it should be outlawed though, does it?
If something doesn't harm others, adding laws to it is daft and intolerant. And if you do so selectively it is prejudiced. Uncomfortable as that may sound to you.
WinstonWolf said:
No one ever grows up thinking "when I'm an adult I'll cover myself from head to toe so no one can see me" unless they've been indoctrinated.
People may not grow up that way but there are western women who've married into the faith who wear it for some obscure reason.Like many on here I'd be happy to ban ALL face covering in public buildings. Want to wear it on the street? In two minds there but I'd not be upset were it banned
irocfan said:
WinstonWolf said:
No one ever grows up thinking "when I'm an adult I'll cover myself from head to toe so no one can see me" unless they've been indoctrinated.
People may not grow up that way but there are western women who've married into the faith who wear it for some obscure reason.Like many on here I'd be happy to ban ALL face covering in public buildings. Want to wear it on the street? In two minds there but I'd not be upset were it banned
If it is illegal to enter a bank, shop, petrol station etc with the face covered, why should it be legal to let individuals wearing a Burqha do so?
Try walking with uncovered flesh, or drinking alcohol in some other countries and a person will find themselves in jail PDQ. If they do not respect our laws, why should those of us visiting such countries pay any respect to theirs?
I think it's a potentially dangerous move to dictate what people can or can't wear. Where does freedom of speech and expression end? And if there is an end, is that really freedom?
However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
Alpinestars said:
I think it's a potentially dangerous move to dictate what people can or can't wear. Where does freedom of speech and expression end? And if there is an end, is that really freedom?
However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
And yet some countries do enforce laws on what people can and cannot wear, with harsh sentences for non compliance. We are lucky not to live in one of those. For security reasons, alone which apply to the rest of the UK population, face coverings in public should be banned in the UK for exactly the same reason.However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
There was an issue some years back regarding the wearing of crash helmets on motorcycles, which contradicted the requirements for Sikhs to wear a turban, which seemed to have been suitably resolved, but not sure how, unless the turban was deemed to provide some protection for the wearer. I for one can not remember ever seeing a Sikh riding a motorcycle ever since then.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Alpinestars said:
I think it's a potentially dangerous move to dictate what people can or can't wear. Where does freedom of speech and expression end? And if there is an end, is that really freedom?
However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
And yet some countries do enforce laws on what people can and cannot wear, with harsh sentences for non compliance. We are lucky not to live in one of those. For security reasons, alone which apply to the rest of the UK population, face coverings in public should be banned in the UK for exactly the same reason.However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
There was an issue some years back regarding the wearing of crash helmets on motorcycles, which contradicted the requirements for Sikhs to wear a turban, which seemed to have been suitably resolved, but not sure how, unless the turban was deemed to provide some protection for the wearer. I for one can not remember ever seeing a Sikh riding a motorcycle ever since then.
It is probably one of the most complex of arguments: should the burka be banned.
On the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
On the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
Alpinestars said:
I think it's a potentially dangerous move to dictate what people can or can't wear. Where does freedom of speech and expression end? And if there is an end, is that really freedom?
However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
But let's be clear, the whole point of the burka in its conception is to create separation, specifically between a women and anyone else other than their very close family.However, I think the full face covering does not help with integration at a time when there is so much division in our society.
Tough one.
Derek Smith said:
It is probably one of the most complex of arguments: should the burka be banned.
On the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
I don't think it's just a cultural one, but a psychological one. We judge a lot by a person's facial expressions and movements, so covering means fear and uncertainty. That's why we find gas masks so unsettling, or in any film about a dystopian future the henchmen of the evil organisation/government will have fully obscured facesOn the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
Mr Snrub said:
Derek Smith said:
It is probably one of the most complex of arguments: should the burka be banned.
On the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
I don't think it's just a cultural one, but a psychological one. We judge a lot by a person's facial expressions and movements, so covering means fear and uncertainty. That's why we find gas masks so unsettling, or in any film about a dystopian future the henchmen of the evil organisation/government will have fully obscured facesOn the one hand there is the argument that in a free world we should be allowed to dress as we like.
On the other hand, most seem to prefer that genitalia be covered.
On the one hand women should be able to cover their faces if they so wish.
On the other hand, they may well be forced to under restrictive covenants of their culture or religion.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as leave their faces in full view.
It is oppressive to force people to do something, such as cover their faces.
I dislike women wearing face coverings as they are women. The problem is not that it is cultural but that it is cultural for women only.
This topic has been done to death.
Identity is important.
We have hundreds of thousands of CCTV cameras just to nail that point.
if you do not want your face being shown in public or recorded on CCTV then this is not the country for you.
Good news though. All is not lost. Plenty of other countries who are overjoyed you want to hide your face.
Identity is important.
We have hundreds of thousands of CCTV cameras just to nail that point.
if you do not want your face being shown in public or recorded on CCTV then this is not the country for you.
Good news though. All is not lost. Plenty of other countries who are overjoyed you want to hide your face.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff