The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)
Discussion
Burwood said:
Tony Blair being, well, Blair again. Doesn't realise everyone thinks he is a prick.
It's almost like a self-parody. His utter lack of self-awareness makes you cringe in a very similar way to David Brent.An utter, despicable cock, singing for the suppers of all is hangers-on at the EU pig trough.
wc98 said:
when blair says "we" and "our task" , who is the "we" he is referring to ?
See above, him and his hangers on.I can imagine the conversation now.
Lord Mandelson of slime and darkness: "Tony, it's terrible, this Brexit thing. I'm really worried about my non job. Even if I don't lose it, where will the next one come from? And what about all our comrades in the IMF?...."
Digga said:
It's almost like a self-parody. His utter lack of self-awareness makes you cringe in a very similar way to David Brent.
An utter, despicable cock, singing for the suppers of all is hangers-on at the EU pig trough.
This, and his proven track record of doing anything for money. Lacking in any morals he and his awful wife have made this country worse off. It shows the true arrogance of the man that he still thinks his opinions carry any weight in this country.An utter, despicable cock, singing for the suppers of all is hangers-on at the EU pig trough.
FiF said:
Extension of the negotiations can be agreed, in which case we are still a full member, paying dues and receiving rebate, payments etc.
Extension can be to whatever duration is agreed afaik.
There was/is a school of thought that the first thing that should be done is negotiate an extension as this would make things less pressured. Not sure of this myself as it just gives reason to let things drift, collectively the EU is bad at decision making in reasonable timescales, often leaving it till last minute.
Then there is the additional complication of extension taking it into next general election time. No doubt that's what Blair is hoping for, come riding in on his white charger to rescue Labour, turn the referendum result, and take us into Schengen, euro and whatever else. The last bit is pure speculation probably due to a dislike of Blair.
Thanks for that, I was wondering along similar lines myself although it does seem a crazy idea to extend talks indefinitely, still paying membership but with nobody taking any notice of what we say. To me that's the worst of all worlds, not being able to create external trade deals while still applying EU tariffs to RoW goods and adopting EU regulations which we may or may not desire. Extension can be to whatever duration is agreed afaik.
There was/is a school of thought that the first thing that should be done is negotiate an extension as this would make things less pressured. Not sure of this myself as it just gives reason to let things drift, collectively the EU is bad at decision making in reasonable timescales, often leaving it till last minute.
Then there is the additional complication of extension taking it into next general election time. No doubt that's what Blair is hoping for, come riding in on his white charger to rescue Labour, turn the referendum result, and take us into Schengen, euro and whatever else. The last bit is pure speculation probably due to a dislike of Blair.
If it's like that in 2020 it will be very difficult to convince a segment of the Tory voters that we have indeed left the EU. Perhaps that explains the current "No deal is better than a poor deal" stance to underline the fact that TM wants it sorted before she goes to the next election.
b2hbm said:
Thanks for that, I was wondering along similar lines myself although it does seem a crazy idea to extend talks indefinitely, still paying membership but with nobody taking any notice of what we say. To me that's the worst of all worlds, not being able to create external trade deals while still applying EU tariffs to RoW goods and adopting EU regulations which we may or may not desire.
If it's like that in 2020 it will be very difficult to convince a segment of the Tory voters that we have indeed left the EU. Perhaps that explains the current "No deal is better than a poor deal" stance to underline the fact that TM wants it sorted before she goes to the next election.
Zero point asking for extensions at the outset as no one knows what the opening positions will be. That will drive whether we're done in a month or 24mths or not.If it's like that in 2020 it will be very difficult to convince a segment of the Tory voters that we have indeed left the EU. Perhaps that explains the current "No deal is better than a poor deal" stance to underline the fact that TM wants it sorted before she goes to the next election.
If I were to bet anything it would be that the majority of key items will be done well within the 24mth period. The rest there'll either be agreements in principle to be finished afterwards, or we'll just go our separate ways on them.
There is no need whatsoever to start panicking now. The rest of this year has plenty in store that will influence the path. Not least of which there being general elections in 8 of the remaining 11 net contributors to the EU project (edited to note that some of those elections are actually in '18...but still likely to help influence things).
Edited by Murph7355 on Friday 17th February 12:50
Murph7355 said:
b2hbm said:
Thanks for that, I was wondering along similar lines myself although it does seem a crazy idea to extend talks indefinitely, still paying membership but with nobody taking any notice of what we say. To me that's the worst of all worlds, not being able to create external trade deals while still applying EU tariffs to RoW goods and adopting EU regulations which we may or may not desire.
If it's like that in 2020 it will be very difficult to convince a segment of the Tory voters that we have indeed left the EU. Perhaps that explains the current "No deal is better than a poor deal" stance to underline the fact that TM wants it sorted before she goes to the next election.
Zero point asking for extensions at the outset as no one knows what the opening positions will be. That will drive whether we're done in a month or 24mths or not.If it's like that in 2020 it will be very difficult to convince a segment of the Tory voters that we have indeed left the EU. Perhaps that explains the current "No deal is better than a poor deal" stance to underline the fact that TM wants it sorted before she goes to the next election.
If I were to bet anything it would be that the majority of key items will be done well within the 24mth period. The rest there'll either be agreements in principle to be finished afterwards, or we'll just go our separate ways on them.
There is no need whatsoever to start panicking now. The rest of this year has plenty in store that will influence the path. Not least of which there being general elections in 8 of the remaining 11 net contributors to the EU project.
PurpleMoonlight said:
That's what everyone wants is it not?They are asking for a non discriminatory visa regime, so that Ausies get the same treatment as EU citizens post Brexit.
That's the whole point of Brexit with regards to immigration. Remove the current discriminatory regime where EU citizens have a better deal than the rest of the world.
You seem to have made a pro leave the EU point. I guess that wasn't your plan with this link.
PurpleMoonlight said:
So long as they reciprocate, no problem. Australia is a rich country, and so assuming the visa freedoms are similar, the flow of people will likely be fairly symmetrical. jsf said:
That's what everyone wants is it not?
They are asking for a non discriminatory visa regime, so that Ausies get the same treatment as EU citizens post Brexit.
That's the whole point of Brexit with regards to immigration. Remove the current discriminatory regime where EU citizens have a better deal than the rest of the world.
You seem to have made a pro leave the EU point. I guess that wasn't your plan with this link.
My point is that free trade agreements appear to always come with strings attached and aren't just about free trade.They are asking for a non discriminatory visa regime, so that Ausies get the same treatment as EU citizens post Brexit.
That's the whole point of Brexit with regards to immigration. Remove the current discriminatory regime where EU citizens have a better deal than the rest of the world.
You seem to have made a pro leave the EU point. I guess that wasn't your plan with this link.
PurpleMoonlight said:
My point is that free trade agreements appear to always come with strings attached and aren't just about free trade.
What strings?He's not asking for preferential treatment, merely equal with every other nation. That's not a 'string' or 'angle'.
Free trade deals really are mostly just about free trade.
Sway said:
What strings?
He's not asking for preferential treatment, merely equal with every other nation. That's not a 'string' or 'angle'.
Free trade deals really are mostly just about free trade.
'We would want to see greater access for Australian business people working in the UK and that´s often been a part of free trade negotiations.' He's not asking for preferential treatment, merely equal with every other nation. That's not a 'string' or 'angle'.
Free trade deals really are mostly just about free trade.
Seems like preferential treatment to me.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Sway said:
What strings?
He's not asking for preferential treatment, merely equal with every other nation. That's not a 'string' or 'angle'.
Free trade deals really are mostly just about free trade.
'We would want to see greater access for Australian business people working in the UK and that´s often been a part of free trade negotiations.' He's not asking for preferential treatment, merely equal with every other nation. That's not a 'string' or 'angle'.
Free trade deals really are mostly just about free trade.
Seems like preferential treatment to me.
Compared to today, that's greater access. Due to various calls to limit total immigration numbers, the only option was to discriminate against Australians and most other global nations.
Doesn't sound preferential to me, merely stopping the current discrimination.
Some good news for powerstrokee et al to gloat over.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
///ajd said:
Some good news for powerstrokee et al to gloat over.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
The best they could manage is a single financial firm that has a £31m turnover? Weak.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
///ajd said:
Some good news for powerstrokee et al to gloat over.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
So the 'exodus' is one company starting an operation in another country with no mention of the loss of jobs you were really hoping for ?https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
Got any more Denis MacShane articles to share this week ?
///ajd said:
Some good news for powerstrokee et al to gloat over.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
I wonder what government initiatives Mr Black's firm was in receipt of...https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/25/b...
Edited by Murph7355 on Sunday 26th February 06:33
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