The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)

[Mrr T]

Sway said:

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

All these things can be significantly cheaper for consumers, without really impacting UK producers. They focus on 'made in Britain' crops (British summer strawberries), specialist high quality and rare breed versions of beef, pork, lamb and poultry.

I am no expert on modern British farming but I suspect the above is rubbish.

My guess is no more than 5% of British agriculture is in specialist products.

You can suspect all you want, but I have worked in modern British farming, including winning two British best factory awards for efficiency in farming/packhouse operations.

Those firms solely work in specialised produce (semi exotic and exotics), and have farming land covering more than a million acres across five countries in the UK, Spain, Mexico, Kenya and Chile.

UK production is very different from UK produce...

Note I also stated about the non-UK sourcable produce, and the 'high quality/welfare if not specialist' market.

Don't let the 'poor tenant dairy farmer' crying into his cereal bowl at 3am every morning fool you...

As I said I am no expert but a quick check shows only about of 5% UK agricultural land is organic. That and a wander around Tesco and ASDA suggests to me a vast majority of British agriculture is standard products.

[Mrr T]

maffski said:

Mrr T said:

...how will you deal with the UK agriculture which will no longer be economic?

The same way you deal with anything that is no longer economic? By not doing it.

So the leave team big idea is to close down British farming?

[Pan Pan Pan]

JawKnee said:

maffski said:

JawKnee said:

Single Market access is "critical" says kipper.

http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2017-03-24/ukip-acce...

Person whose job relies on the opinion of Welsh famers says 'Welsh farmers opinions matter'

A bit like the gushing crocodile tears from Brexiteers last June for this country's fishermen.

Nope. I always objected to the EEC`s seizure of 80% of the fish stocks in UK territorial waters when the UK joined the EEC, for which the EEC gave the UK no compensation whatsoever. leading to the economic, and social decline of many of the UK`s coastal communities.

[Sway]

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

All these things can be significantly cheaper for consumers, without really impacting UK producers. They focus on 'made in Britain' crops (British summer strawberries), specialist high quality and rare breed versions of beef, pork, lamb and poultry.

I am no expert on modern British farming but I suspect the above is rubbish.

My guess is no more than 5% of British agriculture is in specialist products.

You can suspect all you want, but I have worked in modern British farming, including winning two British best factory awards for efficiency in farming/packhouse operations.

Those firms solely work in specialised produce (semi exotic and exotics), and have farming land covering more than a million acres across five countries in the UK, Spain, Mexico, Kenya and Chile.

UK production is very different from UK produce...

Note I also stated about the non-UK sourcable produce, and the 'high quality/welfare if not specialist' market.

Don't let the 'poor tenant dairy farmer' crying into his cereal bowl at 3am every morning fool you...

As I said I am no expert but a quick check shows only about of 5% UK agricultural land is organic. That and a wander around Tesco and ASDA suggests to me a vast majority of British agriculture is standard products.

You're choosing to increase the display of ignorance and lack of comprehension.

I've never mentioned organic.

Add in free range/ red tractor approved/ class A/ Aberdeen Angus/ Welsh lamb slow reared pork/grain fed.

Also note that British agricultural companies don't just grow in the UK. They also grow plenty of stuff around the world and bring it in - my first post gave several examples.

Look at ready meals - that's the ste that uses 'free range' but really not chicken from Poland, and intensive reared, high yield meat and vegetable from the continent...

[Dr Jekyll]

Mrr T said:

maffski said:

Mrr T said:

...how will you deal with the UK agriculture which will no longer be economic?

The same way you deal with anything that is no longer economic? By not doing it.

So the leave team big idea is to close down British farming?

If not duffers, won't drown. Again, look at New Zealand. All subsidies for agriculture were stopped, farmers had to change their approach, but on the whole they are doing just fine. EG Far fewer sheep, but much greater lamb exports because sheep farming only takes place where it's the most productive use of the land.

If you really must subsidise agriculture, do it directly not by import tariffs.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Nope. I always objected to the EEC`s seizure of 80% of the fish stocks in UK territorial waters when the UK joined the EEC, for which the EEC gave the UK no compensation whatsoever. leading to the economic, and social decline of many of the UK`s coastal communities.

Presumably if we leave without agreement with the EU, we get all our fishing grounds back in two years and will be excluded from theirs?

[gizlaroc]

Not sure if this has been posted, but it is an interesting take on what the single market really offers.
A bit of a read, but worth it....


http://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/mythandpar...

[Pan Pan Pan]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Nope. I always objected to the EEC`s seizure of 80% of the fish stocks in UK territorial waters when the UK joined the EEC, for which the EEC gave the UK no compensation whatsoever. leading to the economic, and social decline of many of the UK`s coastal communities.

Presumably if we leave without agreement with the EU, we get all our fishing grounds back in two years and will be excluded from theirs?

Quite possibly, but I don't see anything wrong with that, as it seems a perfectly fair way of dealing with that particular issue.

[loafer123]

Mrr T said:

So which countries are these that the EU does not have deals with?

It is questions like this which make me wonder whether you are deliberately trolling.

You seem reasonably well informed on some elements, even if I disagree with your perspective, and then you go and ask something basic like this?

[Burwood]

Dr Jekyll said:

Mrr T said:

maffski said:

Mrr T said:

...how will you deal with the UK agriculture which will no longer be economic?

The same way you deal with anything that is no longer economic? By not doing it.

So the leave team big idea is to close down British farming?

If not duffers, won't drown. Again, look at New Zealand. All subsidies for agriculture were stopped, farmers had to change their approach, but on the whole they are doing just fine. EG Far fewer sheep, but much greater lamb exports because sheep farming only takes place where it's the most productive use of the land.

I will add that NZ farmers were born to whinge (maybe all those early mornings makes them irritable). It doesn't rain, give us a hand out. Too much rain, hand out. They are a very wealthy demographic.

If you really must subsidise agriculture, do it directly not by import tariffs.

Having consulted to the NZ Dairy industry in terms of the formation of Fonterra, the money is in added value products. Rather than sell 'milk' the cooperative realised that having a vertically integrated operation from cow to finished product was key. Specialty yoghurts, spreads and milk powders are very lucrative.

Edited by Burwood on Friday 24th March 16:10

[Sway]

Burwood said:

Having consulted to the NZ Dairy industry in terms of the formation of Fonterra, the money is in added value products. Rather than sell 'milk' the cooperative realised that having a vertically integrated operation from cow to finished product was key. Specialty yoghurts, spreads and milk powders are very lucrative.

Sounds like you've done similar stuff to me, if slightly different sectors.



Of course, UK dairy (at least the smart ones) are doing similar now. Cravendale is a good example, as is the boom in artisan cheeses and completed dairy goods.

[Burwood]

Sway said:

Burwood said:

Having consulted to the NZ Dairy industry in terms of the formation of Fonterra, the money is in added value products. Rather than sell 'milk' the cooperative realised that having a vertically integrated operation from cow to finished product was key. Specialty yoghurts, spreads and milk powders are very lucrative.

Sounds like you've done similar stuff to me, if slightly different sectors.



Of course, UK dairy (at least the smart ones) are doing similar now. Cravendale is a good example, as is the boom in artisan cheeses and completed dairy goods.

Not so much sector driven but restructuring. I've done hotels, airlines, Unilever. The Unilever highlight-free magnums

As a personal observation, Arla looks like it must do well. A lactose intolerance with a family member saw the buying of all sorts of lactose free milk, cheese, cream and Arla do the lot.

It's interesting that Fonterra, NZs largest company actually accounts for 25% of the countries export earnings. A staggering stat

Edited by Burwood on Friday 24th March 16:25

[Sway]

Burwood said:

Sway said:

Burwood said:

Having consulted to the NZ Dairy industry in terms of the formation of Fonterra, the money is in added value products. Rather than sell 'milk' the cooperative realised that having a vertically integrated operation from cow to finished product was key. Specialty yoghurts, spreads and milk powders are very lucrative.

Sounds like you've done similar stuff to me, if slightly different sectors.



Of course, UK dairy (at least the smart ones) are doing similar now. Cravendale is a good example, as is the boom in artisan cheeses and completed dairy goods.

Not so much sector driven but restructuring. I've done hotels, airlines, Unilever. The Unilever highlight-free magnums

As a personal observation, Area looks like it must do well. A lactose intolerance with a family member saw the buying of all sorts of lactose free milk, cheese, cream and Arla do the lot.

It's interesting that Fonterra, NZs largest company actually accounts for 25% of the countries export earnings. A staggering stat

I'm Continuous Improvement, so similar in being non sector defined.

Some cross over with you though, so far I've covered financial services operations, cruise lines, agricultural, pharma, automotive and currently aerospace.

Bloody love it as the variety helps me manage my low threshold for boredom and almost autistic thirst for knowledge.

Be good to meet for a beer sometime.

[Mrr T]

loafer123 said:

Mrr T said:

So which countries are these that the EU does not have deals with?

It is questions like this which make me wonder whether you are deliberately trolling.

You seem reasonably well informed on some elements, even if I disagree with your perspective, and then you go and ask something basic like this?

So can you tell me which counties we will get fabulous opportunities from doing trade deals with, the poster I asked did not respond.

[skahigh]

Mrr T said:

So can you tell me which counties we will get fabulous opportunities from doing trade deals with, the poster I asked did not respond.

Dr Jekyll said:

Mrr T said:

So which countries are these that the EU does not have deals with?

Major ones are:

China
India
Japan
Pakistan
Taiwan
USA

So that's something over 1/3rd of the worlds population right there.

Mrr T said:

So with world food prices lower than most UK food production costs how will you deal with the UK agriculture which will no longer be economic?

If it isn't economic why deal with it at all? If you do want to subsidise UK agriculture do so honestly not by tariffs that impoverish African farmers and low income UK consumers just to keep the French happy.
Maybe if subsidies were stopped UK agriculture would restructure to become economic as happened in New Zealand.

In any case, Swallows and Amazons rule applies.

[Mrr T]

skahigh said:

Mrr T said:

So can you tell me which counties we will get fabulous opportunities from doing trade deals with, the poster I asked did not respond.

Dr Jekyll said:

Mrr T said:

So which countries are these that the EU does not have deals with?

Major ones are:

China
India
Japan
Pakistan
Taiwan
USA

So that's something over 1/3rd of the worlds population right there.

Mrr T said:

So with world food prices lower than most UK food production costs how will you deal with the UK agriculture which will no longer be economic?

If it isn't economic why deal with it at all? If you do want to subsidise UK agriculture do so honestly not by tariffs that impoverish African farmers and low income UK consumers just to keep the French happy.
Maybe if subsidies were stopped UK agriculture would restructure to become economic as happened in New Zealand.

In any case, Swallows and Amazons rule applies.

Missed it but:
China – Only interesting in exporting
India – Only interesting in exporting
Japan – Only interesting in exporting
Pakistan – Very poor
Taiwan - Only interesting in exporting
USA - Only interesting in exporting

So reply is just a list with no explanation why they offer such fabulous opportunities.

[skahigh]

Mrr T said:

Missed it but:
China – Only interesting in exporting
India – Only interesting in exporting
Japan – Only interesting in exporting
Pakistan – Very poor
Taiwan - Only interesting in exporting
USA - Only interesting in exporting

So reply is just a list with no explanation why they offer such fabulous opportunities.

A total population of 3.2 billion people and not a single one of them will be interested in importing anything from the UK?

I don't know enough about it personally to make any assertions but yours seems a rather unbalanced position to take even to me.

[Sway]

Mrr T said:

Missed it but:
China – Only interesting in exporting
India – Only interesting in exporting
Japan – Only interesting in exporting
Pakistan – Very poor
Taiwan - Only interesting in exporting
USA - Only interesting in exporting

So reply is just a list with no explanation why they offer such fabulous opportunities.

China, just my firm has exported nearly £200M, drop their import tariff and we could double it. That's one company, producing products the Chinese cannot make for themselves (and cannot gain the capability by buying our kit).

These markets buy a vast amount, much that they either do not produce themselves, or their local industry makes inferior or more expensive.

Look at JLR's exports to the US and China...

High quality, well branded goods sell very well in most of those nations.

Oh, and don't forget Nissan Sunderland and Honda Swindon export to Japan.

[Burwood]

Mrr T said:

skahigh said:

Mrr T said:

So can you tell me which counties we will get fabulous opportunities from doing trade deals with, the poster I asked did not respond.

Dr Jekyll said:

Mrr T said:

So which countries are these that the EU does not have deals with?

Major ones are:

China
India
Japan
Pakistan
Taiwan
USA

So that's something over 1/3rd of the worlds population right there.

Mrr T said:

So with world food prices lower than most UK food production costs how will you deal with the UK agriculture which will no longer be economic?

If it isn't economic why deal with it at all? If you do want to subsidise UK agriculture do so honestly not by tariffs that impoverish African farmers and low income UK consumers just to keep the French happy.
Maybe if subsidies were stopped UK agriculture would restructure to become economic as happened in New Zealand.

In any case, Swallows and Amazons rule applies.

Missed it but:
China – Only interesting in exporting
India – Only interesting in exporting
Japan – Only interesting in exporting
Pakistan – Very poor
Taiwan - Only interesting in exporting
USA - Only interesting in exporting

So reply is just a list with no explanation why they offer such fabulous opportunities.

What do you do for a living T. You do talk utter drivel-i wouldn't hire you

[Burwood]

hey Sway- beer is better than wasting energy on Mr T