The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)

[FiF]

jjlynn27 said:

sidicks said:

walm said:

I am sure you are scoring some points against me here Sidicks.
I didn't mention the NHS budget is actually rising.
You win.
Have a nice day!

Eh?

You criticised another poster about 'making up figures' while seemingly happy to invent other facts to suit your claims.

In the last 20 years the NHS has received significantly above inflation increases, yet somehow we are on the verge of crisis.
You claim that immigration hasn't caused this, so what has?

You should stick to posts about pensions.

You keep repeating the same bs over and over again about increased spending. New treatments cost significantly more than they used to. We now have a ludicrious number of obese people. We have the highest number of teenage pregnancies and underage mothers in developed world. The cost of litigation is getting ridiculous as illustrated before. The cost of locums has gone through the roof (and it will get a lot worse thanks to idiotic 'ah let's have 7-day elective procedures that nobody else does').

The simple fact that we spend less than other developed nations on NHS per capita is lost on you. Unsurprisingly.

We also need to consider the spending and resources on other areas that are outside the NHS but impact significantly on hospitals. Such as social services, mental health care, hospices, support for elderly to transition from hospital to home care etc. I suspect that picture would look quite different.

[anonymous-user]

can we take the NHS to its own thread please?

[sidicks]

jjlynn27 said:

You should stick to posts about pensions.

Perhaps you should stick to whatever it is you understand?

jjlynn27 said:

You keep repeating the same bs over and over again about increased spending

The evidence is there for all to see - spending has increased substantially, above inflation for 20+ years.

I'm sorry you don't understand or can't accept that.

jjlynn27 said:

New treatments cost significantly more than they used to.

Of course - remind where I've claimed otherwise? Likewise we would have expected the cost for some other treatments to fall, at least in real terms?

jjlynn27 said:

We now have a ludicrious number of obese people.

Don't we keep changing the obesity scale to make this inevitable? Does obesity explain where all the money is going?

jjlynn27 said:

We have the highest number of teenage pregnancies and underage mothers in developed world.

Hasn't this always been the case?

jjlynn27 said:

The cost of litigation is getting ridiculous as illustrated before. The cost of locums has gone through the roof (and it will get a lot worse thanks to idiotic 'ah let's have 7-day elective procedures that nobody else does').
The simple fact that we spend less than other developed nations on NHS per capita is lost on you. Unsurprisingly.

We spend less than some, we spend more than others - maybe that is lost on you. What is important is whether we spend the money on the right things.

Regardless, none of this is relevant in terms of challenging what I said.

I simply corrected the false claims by 'walm' about budget cuts and austerity, which simply doesn't align with the reality. I guess that is probably lost on you too?

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 17th January 10:42

[B'stard Child]

walm said:

B'stard Child said:

^ Because you think that the majority voted with immigration in mind - yes?

No. (Otherwise, good points!)

Thanks for the clarification

[jjlynn27]

sidicks said:

jjlynn27 said:

You should stick to posts about pensions.

Perhaps you should stick to whatever it is you understand?

jjlynn27 said:

You keep repeating the same bs over and over again about increased spending

The evidence is there for all to see - spending has increased substantially, above inflation for 20+ years.

I'm sorry you don't understand or can't accept that.

jjlynn27 said:

New treatments cost significantly more than they used to.

Of course - remind where I've claimed otherwise? Likewise we would have expected the cost for some other treatments to fall, at least in real terms?

jjlynn27 said:

We now have a ludicrious number of obese people.

Don't we keep changing the obesity scale to make this inevitable? Does obesity explain where all the money is going?

jjlynn27 said:

We have the highest number of teenage pregnancies and underage mothers in developed world.

Hasn't this always been the case?

jjlynn27 said:

The cost of litigation is getting ridiculous as illustrated before. The cost of locums has gone through the roof (and it will get a lot worse thanks to idiotic 'ah let's have 7-day elective procedures that nobody else does').
The simple fact that we spend less than other developed nations on NHS per capita is lost on you. Unsurprisingly.

We spend less than some, we spend more than others - maybe that is lost on you. What is important is whether we spend the money on the right things.

Regardless, none of this is relevant in terms of challenging what I said.

I simply corrected the false claims by 'walm' about budget cuts and austerity, which simply doesn't align with the reality. I guess that is probably lost on you too?

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 17th January 10:42

Unsurprisingly, more bs. Which treatment cost less than they used to? Contrast them with the ones that cost more.

What scales are changed for obesity?

Increase in real terms is completely meaningless. It would be meaningful if you treat the same number of people for the same conditions.

Where we are spending money is very relevant. We are spending money on legal costs, on ridiculously expensive long-term locums (this was explained to you numerous times in jd thread, but unsurprisingly you failed to get it). The aging population is another aspect that pushes the costs up.

I'm not going to speak for walm but to me, it reads that he thinks that 0.3% increase in population is insignificant in relation to the crisis in NHS. If I got that right, he is correct. Completely and utterly irrelevant.

Saying all that chances of any explanation getting in a way of 'public sector bad, mkay?' idiocy, is close to zero.

Take your time to absorb and understand this;

[Mrr T]

Carl_Manchester said:

Fellow posters, it's been fun debating on schools and the NHS, free movement of people and the like. As it looks like our opening negotiating position with the EU will be foxtrot oscar, most of these points are now moot, the hatchet needs to be buried and surely the debate should refocus on the economy.

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

[Murph7355]

techiedave will be buoyed up by that 7/10 figure. Every cloud

When's the PM speaking? Is there still time for me to buy a truck load of Euros?

[paulrockliffe]

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

I asked you for your sources last time you posted this sort of stuff, but you didn't come up with any. Have you got any this time?

[sidicks]

jjlynn27 said:

Unsurprisingly, more bs. Which treatment cost less than they used to? Contrast them with the ones that cost more.

What scales are changed for obesity?

Increase in real terms is completely meaningless. It would be meaningful if you treat the same number of people for the same conditions.

Is entirely meaningful when the claim is that budgets have been cut. Are you still struggling with this?

HTH

jjlynn27 said:

Saying all that chances of any explanation getting in a way of 'public sector bad, mkay?' idiocy, is close to zero.

I've said no such thing - maybe get an adult to help you read and comprehend my posts if you're struggling with the big words?

Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 17th January 11:42

[Digga]

paulrockliffe said:

I asked you for your sources last time you posted this sort of stuff, but you didn't come up with any. Have you got any this time?

No one wants to admit to reading Socialist Worker, let alone believing in the propaganda.

[don4l]

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

bks!

No one has said that they will cease car production in the UK.

[FN2TypeR]

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

Brilliant news!

[Mrr T]

paulrockliffe said:

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

I asked you for your sources last time you posted this sort of stuff, but you didn't come up with any. Have you got any this time?

Do your own research. It will take about 10 minutes and you will see the consequences for business of a “hard” brexit. Or as its better called a boneheaded brexit.

[Mrr T]

don4l said:

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

bks!

No one has said that they will cease car production in the UK.

I see you chose to remove the post I was responding to so as to question my post out of context. So as well as a buffoon you are also disingenuous.

[Carl_Manchester]

Watching the realtime cable price the pound is actually going up whilst this speech is happening. It's probably because it's giving some degree of certainty as to the direction we are taking as a country.

[stongle]

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

Check you're post Finance to rUK or rEU?

Ignoring Gilts.

Again, where is your basis for this? ING just moved 100 jobs OUT of Belgium into London. As has been repeatedly contributed - the EC is creating an un-level playing field for Finance. No amount of passporting benefit (its the argument for the wet behind the ears grads or risk managers looking to justify their idiosyncratic position), is going to bridge a 20-25bps advantage on Balance Sheet being given to Zombie Euro banks. Behaviour modifying regulations will always trump transparency directives - JP are currently licking their wounds on MDP restructuring, and Dimon is fighting his underlings evermore now... (and if your CET1 costs are higher in UK/US you wouldn't want to fund that sh*t, ever (especially when MREL makes CDS protection fraught with problems as bail-in alters the default waterfall challenging the 40% inbuilt recovery rate).

You keep regurgitating heresy and headlines without any research into real world regulatory. Its classic beta grazer territory. The best explain for passporting benefits thus far, its a convenient excuse rollout it to explain other ills in the sector or upcoming job losses due to technology (go look up R3, or the latest Trade Finance applications of DLT, DTCC invest etc). The jobs were going or gone anyway; passporting is the excuse often used by muppets (and some of your posts don't suggest that - but I think your wrong here).

Edited by stongle on Tuesday 17th January 12:24

Edited by stongle on Tuesday 17th January 12:32

[Carl_Manchester]

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

it will be interesting what the strategy is, I expect corporation tax parity with Ireland would be the first move to stem any bleeding. The big choices will come if we have to eject 2m people from the economy due to a political failure in negotiating a bilateral agreement for our people abroad. How that manifests itself is difficult to predict. Government has proven time again that they simply are unable to reduce total government spending and so pensions seem to be a soft target.

[paulrockliffe]

Mrr T said:

paulrockliffe said:

Mrr T said:

So let’s discuss. With financial services companies moving 1,000’s of job to the rUK, many manufactures, including the car companies, confirming plans to cease production in the UK, and an expected 5-7% fall in UK tax revenues. BOE confirming it is struggling to refinance gilt redemption. What alternatives would you like to discuss. Can I suggest an immediate reduction in all state pensions of say 50% and a 10% cut in all benefits, and perhaps a 5% c

I asked you for your sources last time you posted this sort of stuff, but you didn't come up with any. Have you got any this time?

Do your own research. It will take about 10 minutes and you will see the consequences for business of a “hard” brexit. Or as its better called a boneheaded brexit.

I'm not sure you understand how this works. You post something, presumably because you want people to think it is true and modify their opinion. No one is going to modify their opinion if you can't or won't support your argument.

I don't know about this stuff in enough detail that I'm not open to being persuaded of your case, if it's correct. But my understanding is enough that I'm not just going to believe unsupported statements of impending doom either.

It's up to you whether you want people to take your point of view seriously or not.

[VolvoT5]

This speech makes it very clear that May wants a full/hard Brexit.... no fudge to please the remain voters...

[Burwood]

Great speech by May. Looking forward to seeing it unfold.