The economic consequences of Brexit (Vol 2)

[AC43]

B'stard Child said:

FiF said:

AC43 said:

B'stard Child said:

one has to wonder what kind of utter retard would go against the weight of opinion that said it would be "bad" to leave.

- people who don't live in London
- people who don't actually experience much immigration
- people who don't work in FS
- people who don't work in the service sector
- people who have never worked overseas
- people in Stoke

Other categories are available.

So just to get that clear, is that 5 categories of people that you're calling retards? I've discounted the 6th as iirc Stoke is outside London, so that was a redundant category, unless you're calling the residents of Stoke, double retards, or perhaps there was an invisible smiley and a brightly coloured creature of the order Psittaciformes is winging its way along whoosh alley in my direction.

Pick a colour any colour

LOL. I'm just calling out Stoke as it was apparently a massive stronghold for first the BNP then UKIP then for the Brexit vote.

One of the local (Labour) MP's apparently campaigns under the slogan "Hope not hate".

For people with only 11% immigration (compared to my 56%) there would seem to be a lack of hope and fair bit of hate.

Odd, considering it wasn't the immigrants who shut their factories.

And they hardly have any immigration anyway.

No wonder Tristram Hunt is legging it out of there and going to the V&A

[barryrs]

AC43 said:

LOL. I'm just calling out Stoke as it was apparently a massive stronghold for first the BNP then UKIP then for the Brexit vote.

One of the local (Labour) MP's apparently campaigns under the slogan "Hope not hate".

For people with only 11% immigration (compared to my 56%) there would seem to be a lack of hope and fair bit of hate.

Odd, considering it wasn't the immigrants who shut their factories.

And they hardly have any immigration anyway.

No wonder Tristram Hunt is legging it out of there and going to the V&A

Less than 3% of the vote equates to a BNP stronghold!

[Murph7355]

AC43 said:

LOL. I'm just calling out Stoke as it was apparently a massive stronghold for first the BNP then UKIP then for the Brexit vote.

One of the local (Labour) MP's apparently campaigns under the slogan "Hope not hate".

For people with only 11% immigration (compared to my 56%) there would seem to be a lack of hope and fair bit of hate.

Odd, considering it wasn't the immigrants who shut their factories.

And they hardly have any immigration anyway.

No wonder Tristram Hunt is legging it out of there and going to the V&A

You'd be better served listing those places that weren't a Brexit "stronghold" by your apparent definition of the term

And as has been discussed elsewhere, broad %ages are only useful in a broad way. They don't in anyway make people automatically "wrong" about their views and using them in that way is part of what has made people feel disenfranchised IMO. (I speak as someone who genuinely sees the positives in immigration btw).

[ecurie]

Burwood said:

That may be true, but what better way to hasten the EU breakup than to show the UK prospering outside, on their own. This country will indeed prosper. I have every confidence. The EU is a parasite and will fail imo

It just shows how UK export trade will be depending on the goodwill of the USA. Just look at Nafta that Trump wants to renogiate. You thrust him enough to be sure he'll keep his promises to the UK ? Tony Blair was often accused of being America's lapdog but even he was in a stronger position than May now is.
Seems to me you've more or less traded the EU for the USA with that exception the EU consumer market is bigger.
And yes, you won't have to allow for free movement of EU citizens, but illegal Syrians, Afghans, Somalis, etc ... will still be queuing in Calais and who knows, the French might be more inclined to let some of them slip through the net.

[Burwood]

ecurie said:

Burwood said:

That may be true, but what better way to hasten the EU breakup than to show the UK prospering outside, on their own. This country will indeed prosper. I have every confidence. The EU is a parasite and will fail imo

It just shows how UK export trade will be depending on the goodwill of the USA. Just look at Nafta that Trump wants to renogiate. You thrust him enough to be sure he'll keep his promises to the UK ? Tony Blair was often accused of being America's lapdog but even he was in a stronger position than May now is.
Seems to me you've more or less traded the EU for the USA with that exception the EU consumer market is bigger.
And yes, you won't have to allow for free movement of EU citizens, but illegal Syrians, Afghans, Somalis, etc ... will still be queuing in Calais and who knows, the French might be more inclined to let some of them slip through the net.

I feel strongly that many underestimate just how much the EU need certain things from us. A deal will be struck even though it will take some time going through the posturing and BS. Our security services/intelligence and army are of great importance. Im positive anyway.

I also think the elections in the Netherlands will raise more issues with the EU. The people there are fed up with immigrants taking the piss and anyone who says something about it is labelled a racist

Edited by Burwood on Monday 23 January 15:05

[PRTVR]

ecurie said:

Burwood said:

That may be true, but what better way to hasten the EU breakup than to show the UK prospering outside, on their own. This country will indeed prosper. I have every confidence. The EU is a parasite and will fail imo

It just shows how UK export trade will be depending on the goodwill of the USA. Just look at Nafta that Trump wants to renogiate. You thrust him enough to be sure he'll keep his promises to the UK ? Tony Blair was often accused of being America's lapdog but even he was in a stronger position than May now is.
Seems to me you've more or less traded the EU for the USA with that exception the EU consumer market is bigger.
And yes, you won't have to allow for free movement of EU citizens, but illegal Syrians, Afghans, Somalis, etc ... will still be queuing in Calais and who knows, the French might be more inclined to let some of them slip through the net.

You did get the memo didn't you ? Scare tactics failed in the run up to the referendum and we're proved wrong , why carry on with the tactic that failed ?
Oh the French might start to let migrants through at Calais, really is that the best you can come up with?

[loafer123]

PRTVR said:

You did get the memo didn't you ? Scare tactics failed in the run up to the referendum and we're proved wrong , why carry on with the tactic that failed ?
Oh the French might start to let migrants through at Calais, really is that the best you can come up with?

He's reading the memo from January 2016 by mistake...

[ecurie]

Burwood said:

I feel strongly that many underestimate just how much the EU need certain things from us. A deal will be struck even though it will take some time going through the posturing and BS. Our security services/intelligence and army are of great importance. Im positive anyway.

I also think the elections in the Netherlands will raise more issues with the EU. The people there are fed up with immigrants taking the piss and anyone who says something about it is labelled a racist

Edited by Burwood on Monday 23 January 15:05

What I meant is that Britain shouldn't put all its eggs in one (US) basket. A US trade deal would only partially compensate for what will be lost by leaving the EU.
And I agree : it would be best if both parties (UK and EU) reach an agreement they both can live with. And indeed, sooner or later it will happen.

About the Netherlands : people are fed up with immigration indeed, but specifically immigrants from Morocco. Geert Wilders himself asked his audience if they wanted more or less of them. If ever the Netherlands would decide to leave the EU (which I don't believe as no other party will govern with the PVV and they don't have an absolute majority) it would still not solve their Moroccan problem.

Edited by ecurie on Monday 23 January 16:40

[ecurie]

PRTVR said:

You did get the memo didn't you ? Scare tactics failed in the run up to the referendum and we're proved wrong , why carry on with the tactic that failed ?
Oh the French might start to let migrants through at Calais, really is that the best you can come up with?

This has nothing to do with scare tactics. You voted out of the EU and, whilst I think it's a bad choice, democracy should prevail and the governement has to make sure they respect the vote.

However, refugees the world over will still be wanting to come to the UK. This will not stop because you left the EU. And it would be quite naive to think the French will carry all the burden of those camping out around Calais in case of a hard Brexit.

Also interesting most of you jump on the immigration issue but don't have a lot to say about trade deals and how to get the best deal for Britain.

[Burwood]

and if the EU get nasty, I'm happy to stop buying European products where possible. That includes German cars which i am very fond of. If a lot of 'us' did that they'd get the message but sadly most people are spineless

[PRTVR]

ecurie said:

PRTVR said:

You did get the memo didn't you ? Scare tactics failed in the run up to the referendum and we're proved wrong , why carry on with the tactic that failed ?
Oh the French might start to let migrants through at Calais, really is that the best you can come up with?

This has nothing to do with scare tactics. You voted out of the EU and, whilst I think it's a bad choice, democracy should prevail and the governement has to make sure they respect the vote.

However, refugees the world over will still be wanting to come to the UK. This will not stop because you left the EU. And it would be quite naive to think the French will carry all the burden of those camping out around Calais in case of a hard Brexit.

Also interesting most of you jump on the immigration issue but don't have a lot to say about trade deals and how to get the best deal for Britain.

You may not keep up with the news but the French cleared Calais camp after we voted, if you wish to make predictions at least have them based in fact.

[turbobloke]

ecurie said:

Also interesting most of you jump on the immigration issue but don't have a lot to say about trade deals and how to get the best deal for Britain.

Who are most of us, and what exactly have we jumped on, and what have we said/not said?

The above remark is a barely concealed baseless group smear.

[ecurie]

PRTVR said:

You may not keep up with the news but the French cleared Calais camp after we voted, if you wish to make predictions at least have them based in fact.

Well, I'll make it clear for you :

1) There are still several small settlements around the region Nord-Pas de Calais. Even some around Zeebrugge in Belgium, another way into the UK.
2) Every day illegal immigrants are mounting aboard trucks in France, Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands in the hope of reaching the UK. Most of them are apprehended in Calais
3) It is not because these people are now in open refugee centers around France that they have abandonded their plan to go to the UK. They don't even ask for asylum in France.

[ecurie]

turbobloke said:

Who are most of us, and what exactly have we jumped on, and what have we said/not said?

The above remark is a barely concealed baseless group smear.

Well, 2 out of 3 reactions (incl. yours) on my post.

[don'tbesilly]

ecurie said:

Burwood said:

I feel strongly that many underestimate just how much the EU need certain things from us. A deal will be struck even though it will take some time going through the posturing and BS. Our security services/intelligence and army are of great importance. Im positive anyway.

I also think the elections in the Netherlands will raise more issues with the EU. The people there are fed up with immigrants taking the piss and anyone who says something about it is labelled a racist

Edited by Burwood on Monday 23 January 15:05

What I meant is that Britain shouldn't put all its eggs in one (US) basket. A US trade deal would only partially compensate for what will be lost by leaving the EU.
And I agree : it would be best if both parties (UK and EU) reach an agreement they both can live with. And indeed, sooner or later it will happen.

Why do you think the UK is only negotiating with the US?

There are ongoing negotiations with a number of countries taking place, the suggestion that the US is the only one is far from the truth.

Australia jumps to mind as one of the other countries:

http://www.politico.eu/article/australia-to-open-t...

Then there is New Zealand:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/13/u...

I could go on......

[dandarez]

Blimey, is that May cuddling up to Nuttall on the right!

[PRTVR]

ecurie said:

PRTVR said:

You may not keep up with the news but the French cleared Calais camp after we voted, if you wish to make predictions at least have them based in fact.

Well, I'll make it clear for you :

1) There are still several small settlements around the region Nord-Pas de Calais. Even some around Zeebrugge in Belgium, another way into the UK.
2) Every day illegal immigrants are mounting aboard trucks in France, Belgium, Germany, The Netherlands in the hope of reaching the UK. Most of them are apprehended in Calais
3) It is not because these people are now in open refugee centers around France that they have abandonded their plan to go to the UK. They don't even ask for asylum in France.

My point was not that people are trying to get to the UK but that the government's of france and Belgium will suddenly start acting in a way detrimental to its neighbour, we were told if we voted out the checks would move to dover, did it happen? So I ask again what do you base your assumptions on.

[Murph7355]

ecurie said:

What I meant is that Britain shouldn't put all its eggs in one (US) basket. A US trade deal would only partially compensate for what will be lost by leaving the EU.
...

We're getting out precisely so we aren't putting our eggs in one basket(case) (the EU) and spreading the love with people we choose rather than be told who we can deal with and on what terms.

ecurie said:

...
However, refugees the world over will still be wanting to come to the UK. This will not stop because you left the EU. And it would be quite naive to think the French will carry all the burden of those camping out around Calais in case of a hard Brexit.
....

Hopefully once we regain full sovereign control we'll grow a pair. Any illegals to go back from the last country they were in before they landed here. We're in a fortunate position geographically in that the last country won't be too hard to determine.

If the French and other EU states managed their own borders properly, there wouldn't be illegal immigrants congregating in Calais or anywhere near there...so I'm sure they won't mind the problem being bounced straight back at them. It might encourage them to push the problem back up the chain.

[rallycross]

turbobloke said:

Burwood said:

That may be true, but what better way to hasten the EU breakup than to show the UK prospering outside, on their own. This country will indeed prosper. I have every confidence. The EU is a parasite and will fail imo

Now, post-referendum and then, post-Brexit, whatever evolution the EU is destined to follow, it'll speed up a bit. Piece-by-piece dismantling looks more likely now.

Agreed regarding confidence in the UK's economic future. Those talking the UK down included some big political hitters (the Chancellor for one, ffs) and they're already looking foolish. No; more foolish.

If things had carried on as it was, the same/current EU policies and the same crappy deal for the UK then when the EU master plan fails economically (and it will/or would have as it was) the UK economy would have been taken down with the EU.

The death of the Greek economy and unlimited lending to try and shore it up is only the beginning of the failure of the EU, when Germany and France have to pull back on their contribution it will start to unravel (most likely once Merkel is voted out).

There will be some pain for us to split from the current deal now but much better to be free from mess that is coming soon.

[kurt535]

don'tbesilly said:

ecurie said:

Burwood said:

I feel strongly that many underestimate just how much the EU need certain things from us. A deal will be struck even though it will take some time going through the posturing and BS. Our security services/intelligence and army are of great importance. Im positive anyway.

I also think the elections in the Netherlands will raise more issues with the EU. The people there are fed up with immigrants taking the piss and anyone who says something about it is labelled a racist

Edited by Burwood on Monday 23 January 15:05

What I meant is that Britain shouldn't put all its eggs in one (US) basket. A US trade deal would only partially compensate for what will be lost by leaving the EU.
And I agree : it would be best if both parties (UK and EU) reach an agreement they both can live with. And indeed, sooner or later it will happen.

Why do you think the UK is only negotiating with the US?

There are ongoing negotiations with a number of countries taking place, the suggestion that the US is the only one is far from the truth.

Australia jumps to mind as one of the other countries:

http://www.politico.eu/article/australia-to-open-t...

Then there is New Zealand:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/13/u...

I could go on......

So, any views on Australia wanting far greater immigration opportunities for their people to come to the UK?

I also recall India demanding that recently as well.