Man shot dead on M62 in pre-planned police operation
Discussion
La Liga said:
A brief look back at this topic shows it sure brought out the idiots.
After that there needs to be an enhanced inquest over the death which won't begin until 2018.
The inquest decision could then be appealed.
I wouldn't expect conclusions until mid / late 2018 but the matter could drag on for several years after that. See Duggan / Menezes (though we sympathise with the latter) for how long a hopeless cause is dragged on for.
Who'd be a firearms officer?
Thank you for an adult response.PurpleAki said:
Any new info on this? All gone extremely quiet.
Any criminal matters need to be concluded before any police investigations can be concluded. This is why they often take so long. The trial date from that article suggests December. If he's convicted he can still appeal which would prolong the criminal matters well into 2018. After that there needs to be an enhanced inquest over the death which won't begin until 2018.
The inquest decision could then be appealed.
I wouldn't expect conclusions until mid / late 2018 but the matter could drag on for several years after that. See Duggan / Menezes (though we sympathise with the latter) for how long a hopeless cause is dragged on for.
Who'd be a firearms officer?
Edited by PurpleAki on Thursday 9th March 15:57
fblm said:
Ok you'll probably never be a pygmy but if you really want to shoot people it shouldn't be too hard to identify as a lesbian... 
It was obviously a tongue-in-cheek statement, but a career in the Police was an option I considered when I left the Forces. That was until I applied - there were more questions about my sexual preference and which God I prayed to than whether I had any relevant experiences or skills; that during a time of increased recruitment too.
Rogue86 said:
fblm said:
Ok you'll probably never be a pygmy but if you really want to shoot people it shouldn't be too hard to identify as a lesbian...
It was obviously a tongue-in-cheek statement, but a career in the Police was an option I considered when I left the Forces. That was until I applied - there were more questions about my sexual preference and which God I prayed to than whether I had any relevant experiences or skills; that during a time of increased recruitment too.
La Liga said:
/ late 2018 but the matter could drag on for several years after that. See Duggan / Menezes (though we sympathise with the latter) for how long a hopeless cause is dragged on for.
Who'd be a firearms officer?
Hopeless cause ? Can you elaborate why you stuck that in there, you seem to be saying that investigating the police over a shooting of an innocent man is hopeless .Who'd be a firearms officer?
Not sure what you are getting at.
Rogue86 said:
I would, if the Police weren't so concerned about hiring transgender pygmy lesbians instead of people actually capable of the job.
I think you'll find the police service is primarily still white heterosexual males 
Pesty said:
La Liga said:
/ late 2018 but the matter could drag on for several years after that. See Duggan / Menezes (though we sympathise with the latter) for how long a hopeless cause is dragged on for.
Who'd be a firearms officer?
Hopeless cause ? Can you elaborate why you stuck that in there, you seem to be saying that investigating the police over a shooting of an innocent man is hopeless .Who'd be a firearms officer?
Not sure what you are getting at.
I was referring to the appeals stage which can prolong the matters for years. This would be after the IPCC, CPS and Inquest jury have all found no wrong-doing. At that point it's likely to be a hopeless cause for the families.
The Menezes family went through every appeal including trying to change the burden of proof in which people are charged (which had implications for everyone in the UK) at the ECHR which only concluded on the 30th of March last year. That means it nearly lasted 11 years. I'm not sure that's right for the fireams officers who believed they were running after a suicide bomber.
The Duggan family are currently going through appeals (although there may be some legal issues), but in reality it's not going to change the outcome and just prolong the inevitable.
La Liga said:
certainly can. I wasn't fully clear.
I was referring to the appeals stage which can prolong the matters for years. This would be after the IPCC, CPS and Inquest jury have all found no wrong-doing. At that point it's likely to be a hopeless cause for the families.
The Menezes family went through every appeal including trying to change the burden of proof in which people are charged (which had implications for everyone in the UK) at the ECHR which only concluded on the 30th of March last year. That means it nearly lasted 11 years. I'm not sure that's right for the fireams officers who believed they were running after a suicide bomber.
The Duggan family are currently going through appeals (although there may be some legal issues), but in reality it's not going to change the outcome and just prolong the inevitable.
Legal blood suckers (read "human rights" but just claiming legal aid) attached to them all as wellI was referring to the appeals stage which can prolong the matters for years. This would be after the IPCC, CPS and Inquest jury have all found no wrong-doing. At that point it's likely to be a hopeless cause for the families.
The Menezes family went through every appeal including trying to change the burden of proof in which people are charged (which had implications for everyone in the UK) at the ECHR which only concluded on the 30th of March last year. That means it nearly lasted 11 years. I'm not sure that's right for the fireams officers who believed they were running after a suicide bomber.
The Duggan family are currently going through appeals (although there may be some legal issues), but in reality it's not going to change the outcome and just prolong the inevitable.
La Liga said:
Rogue86 said:
I would, if the Police weren't so concerned about hiring transgender pygmy lesbians instead of people actually capable of the job.
I think you'll find the police service is primarily still white heterosexual males Rogue86 said:
but a career in the Police was an option I considered when I left the Forces. That was until I applied - there were more questions about my sexual preference and which God I prayed to than whether I had any relevant experiences or skills; that during a time of increased recruitment too.
I have a friend in the Met. I knew him before he joined. He knows me pretty well. Seen me at my best and my stressed He suggested I'd make a good copper, because I was older (late 30s), in good shape physically, am fundamentally honest and fair (blew the smoke up my arse
) and had more life experience than the current newbies. Who appear to have left school and never seen what the world is like, have no idea how to talk to people who are wound up without making it worse. Or even the ability to make a decision. Far too wet behind the ears. (On a slight tangent I recently saw a pic of a friend of a friends brother who was accepted into the Met. Jesus you could knock him over by shouting at him
Then couple of nights ago outside my Tescos were 4 obviously on break buying some food. They didn't exactly inspire confidence from their mannerisms. They looked and acted like GCSE students. One appeared flummoxed by the idea of scanning the barcode on the till 
)Anyway.
Went through the process. Filled in the forms, took a pic of my small tattoo. Said I wasnt a member of Combat18 or the BNP. Said no points on my licence (ever) Told them I was arrested a few years back but never charged with anything and not officially cautioned.
I was rejected. Told my mate. He said appeal. He knew of my arrest. He knew current serving officers who had appealed and got in second time round. So I appealed. And was told that the £70 Fixed penalty notice (not driving related) I had received years ago precluded my entry.
For life.
He was sympathetic. Said its ridiculous how a non caution, no criminal record etc can do that. I was disappointed. But I'll get over it. But when I hear in future on the news that there's a Police shortage or how the recruits these days are s
te and they want people with life experience. I will smile to myself...La Liga said:
I think you'll find the police service is primarily still white heterosexual males
Is that because white, heterosexual males make up a larger percentage of the type of people who are likely to apply for a kinetic job like the Police? Does that make it then reasonable to actively discriminate against white, heterosexual males in the recruitment process? I would prefer that the Police set standards to achieve regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation, the same goes for the Armed Forces to be honest but that's probably another conversation!Rich_W said:
I have a friend in the Met...
To be honest with you Rich, mine is a very similar story. Partners uncle is a long-term copper (due for retirement in the next few years), said the same thing and we had a long chat about it when I left the Forces. The Police at the time were looking to specifically increase their counter-terrorism and firearms units, both of which I have a fair bit of experience with and during my time I'd worked with CivPol quite a bit too. It was the first time in my life really that I had applied for a job where I genuinely thought I could add something to it, rather than learn from it. My application was initially rejected for having tattoos, which I appealed as they fall within their regs. Within minutes of the appeal they rejected me on the grounds that the two related life-experience events they asked for were "both a matter of life and death and they don't need to be". I chalked it up to experience and got on with my life and I'm probably better off for it. I understand that the Police is full of extremely talented and devoted people of all shapes and sizes, but the conventional Police here are frankly a pushover for the local yobs. Unlike La Ligas experience, the majority of the Police round here are middle aged women or very young men who lack tact or experience, many of them also PCSOs. There are exceptions, usually found on the firearms or traffic teams. I guess ultimately it's a matter of funding and increasingly tighter bureaucracy, but it's not surprising to see the footprint of private security contractors increasing. Again, the same thing is happening to the Armed Forces and increasingly in other Government sectors too.
Rogue86 said:
Is that because white, heterosexual males make up a larger percentage of the type of people who are likely to apply for a kinetic job like the Police? Does that make it then reasonable to actively discriminate against white, heterosexual males in the recruitment process? I would prefer that the Police set standards to achieve regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation, the same goes for the Armed Forces to be honest but that's probably another conversation!
Primarily it's because the volume of applicants are white, heterosexual males. It's certainly not reasonable to discriminate in the recruitment process. Avon and Somerset went too far once IIRC, by discarding white male applications a few years ago. Ultimately they need to recruit the most suitable people. That still leaves scope to do greater work to encourage under-represented groups to apply.
Looking at recent recruitment it's still dominated by white, heterosexual males.
A recent update on this story, there's going to be a vigil held exactly one year since the shooting on the M62 slip-road. At half 5, on a live motorway.
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
Killer2005 said:
A recent update on this story, there's going to be a vigil held exactly one year since the shooting on the M62 slip-road. At half 5, on a live motorway.
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
fhttp://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
king ridiculous if true!garyhun said:
Killer2005 said:
A recent update on this story, there's going to be a vigil held exactly one year since the shooting on the M62 slip-road. At half 5, on a live motorway.
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
fhttp://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
king ridiculous if true!king stupid idea. dazwalsh said:
garyhun said:
Killer2005 said:
A recent update on this story, there's going to be a vigil held exactly one year since the shooting on the M62 slip-road. At half 5, on a live motorway.
http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
fhttp://www.examiner.co.uk/news/what-know-how-m62-c...
king ridiculous if true!king stupid idea. 
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