Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
dickymint said:
Exactly what I thought - you did a quick google and found something that you accuse everybody else of doing.... CONFIRMATION BIAS 
You even picked on an "expert in his field" - shame that expert totally blew apart your totally one sided, biased and blinded view/s!! But keep reading His stuff as you may learn something but somehow I doubt it.
You are a troll and a hypocrite of the first order
Eh? The article agreed with my statement (otherwise, why would I share it?), and it sounded like you basically agreed with it too. You even picked on an "expert in his field" - shame that expert totally blew apart your totally one sided, biased and blinded view/s!! But keep reading His stuff as you may learn something but somehow I doubt it.You are a troll and a hypocrite of the first order
I've absolutely no idea why you're so angry or what you're ranting about. If that particular link makes you hysterical, try the Guardian one:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/may/2...
Kawasicki said:
The survival of the fittest.
Evidence? Really?
Evidence? Really?
mondeoman said:
durbster said:
The phrase, "the natural cycle of things," suggests nature is an organised, balanced entity that will regress to a certain state if left alone. I'm saying there's no evidence to support that.
oooh are tides well organised then? and sun-spots? And 3.5 billion women? A cycle does not suggest regression to a norm at all, the opposite in fact. Thought better of you Durbs.
I read that statement as a sort of religious description of nature i.e. a balanced, harmonic system that tends towards a particular state. The definition of a cycle is something that will return to its origin, and I'm simply saying that is not an absolute rule in the natural world. Just ask a Stegosaurus.
The point being, a series of events (natural or not) could make the planet inhospitable to life, and we shouldn't assume nature has any mechanism to automatically fix itself.
durbster said:
The point being, a series of events (natural or not) could make the planet inhospitable to life, and we shouldn't assume nature has any mechanism to automatically fix itself.
So how would "nature" know whether it had "fixed" itself given that everything that might be included in the makeup of "nature" is constantly changing?Secondary question: Why would so called "nature" care much about the minor irritant we bipeds call "humanity" that has existed for a nanofraction of the time the planetary mass has been around? Is that the type of "life" you were thinking of in the sentence above?
The whole idea of fixing is odd.
There's nothing to fix in effect. Natural processes change the state of play in, on and above planets on a regular if intermittent basis e.g. for Earth as our parent star the Sun evolves, our planet undergoes tectonic, axial and orbital changes and as objects impact on the surface or seas and oceans. Some of these changes are gradual and some more instant but that's just a form of book-keeping at work.
What does fixing mean? The result of stellar evolution, planetary evolution and space impacts are all natural and everything that follows is natural and not broken in any sense requiring a fix. Humans are natural too and what we do is natural.
If we cannot adapt to any of the above changes we die out, while recalling that extinction is one natural endpoint option of evolution for any species.
The nature of our own changes to the planet are trivial compared to the long list of natural changes and are only significant when the arrogance of some humans leads them to think we can compete with nature and win. The planet and its space environment pose a continuous lethal threat to us, whereas the planet is and will be fine with or without us.
Not assuming we can fix something is a good starting point, believing we can is part of the agw nonsense - we haven't caused a problem therefore we're not in a position to 'fix' a non-problem we didn't cause.
There's nothing to fix in effect. Natural processes change the state of play in, on and above planets on a regular if intermittent basis e.g. for Earth as our parent star the Sun evolves, our planet undergoes tectonic, axial and orbital changes and as objects impact on the surface or seas and oceans. Some of these changes are gradual and some more instant but that's just a form of book-keeping at work.
What does fixing mean? The result of stellar evolution, planetary evolution and space impacts are all natural and everything that follows is natural and not broken in any sense requiring a fix. Humans are natural too and what we do is natural.
If we cannot adapt to any of the above changes we die out, while recalling that extinction is one natural endpoint option of evolution for any species.
The nature of our own changes to the planet are trivial compared to the long list of natural changes and are only significant when the arrogance of some humans leads them to think we can compete with nature and win. The planet and its space environment pose a continuous lethal threat to us, whereas the planet is and will be fine with or without us.
Not assuming we can fix something is a good starting point, believing we can is part of the agw nonsense - we haven't caused a problem therefore we're not in a position to 'fix' a non-problem we didn't cause.
UK 'must insulate 25 million homes'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39107973
More than one home every minute will need to be refurbished in the UK between now and 2050, experts say.
The authors of a report to Parliament say 25 million existing homes will not meet the insulation standards required by mid-century.
The UK needs to cut carbon emissions by 80% by then - and a third of those emissions come from heating draughty buildings.
The government said it would devise policies as soon as possible.
But critics say ministers have been far too slow to impose a national programme of home renovation which would save on bills and improve people's health, comfort and happiness. It would also create thousands of jobs.
Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe.
Local authorities have limited cash to insulate council homes, and landlords and owner-occupiers have proved reluctant to invest large sums in disruptive improvements that will save on bills, but take many years to pay off.
The report from a group of leading construction firms - the Green Building Council - says four out of five homes that will be occupied in 2050 have already been built.
That means 25 million homes need refurbishing to the highest standards by 2050 - at a rate of 1.4 homes every minute. So that's £37,500,000,000 then !!!!
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39107973
More than one home every minute will need to be refurbished in the UK between now and 2050, experts say.
The authors of a report to Parliament say 25 million existing homes will not meet the insulation standards required by mid-century.
The UK needs to cut carbon emissions by 80% by then - and a third of those emissions come from heating draughty buildings.
The government said it would devise policies as soon as possible.
But critics say ministers have been far too slow to impose a national programme of home renovation which would save on bills and improve people's health, comfort and happiness. It would also create thousands of jobs.
Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe.
Local authorities have limited cash to insulate council homes, and landlords and owner-occupiers have proved reluctant to invest large sums in disruptive improvements that will save on bills, but take many years to pay off.
The report from a group of leading construction firms - the Green Building Council - says four out of five homes that will be occupied in 2050 have already been built.
That means 25 million homes need refurbishing to the highest standards by 2050 - at a rate of 1.4 homes every minute. So that's £37,500,000,000 then !!!!
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 28th February 15:29
robinessex said:
UK 'must insulate 25 million homes'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39107973
More than one home every minute will need to be refurbished in the UK between now and 2050, experts say.
The authors of a report to Parliament say 25 million existing homes will not meet the insulation standards required by mid-century.
The UK needs to cut carbon emissions by 80% by then - and a third of those emissions come from heating draughty buildings.
The government said it would devise policies as soon as possible.
But critics say ministers have been far too slow to impose a national programme of home renovation which would save on bills and improve people's health, comfort and happiness. It would also create thousands of jobs.
Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe.
Local authorities have limited cash to insulate council homes, and landlords and owner-occupiers have proved reluctant to invest large sums in disruptive improvements that will save on bills, but take many years to pay off.
The report from a group of leading construction firms - the Green Building Council - says four out of five homes that will be occupied in 2050 have already been built.
That means 25 million homes need refurbishing to the highest standards by 2050 - at a rate of 1.4 homes every minute.
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
So that's £37,500,000,000 then !!!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bullst message !!
Yep. Done the loft, the windows, the walls and now I have to leave the windows open to stop the condensation from causing damp walls.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39107973
More than one home every minute will need to be refurbished in the UK between now and 2050, experts say.
The authors of a report to Parliament say 25 million existing homes will not meet the insulation standards required by mid-century.
The UK needs to cut carbon emissions by 80% by then - and a third of those emissions come from heating draughty buildings.
The government said it would devise policies as soon as possible.
But critics say ministers have been far too slow to impose a national programme of home renovation which would save on bills and improve people's health, comfort and happiness. It would also create thousands of jobs.
Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe.
Local authorities have limited cash to insulate council homes, and landlords and owner-occupiers have proved reluctant to invest large sums in disruptive improvements that will save on bills, but take many years to pay off.
The report from a group of leading construction firms - the Green Building Council - says four out of five homes that will be occupied in 2050 have already been built.
That means 25 million homes need refurbishing to the highest standards by 2050 - at a rate of 1.4 homes every minute.
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
So that's £37,500,000,000 then !!!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 28th February 14:30
robinessex said:
And todays CC thought is:-
I can't actually prove there isn't an ..... armadillo in my garage... I can't see how it could have got there so I work on the presumption that there isn't one.
OK, selective quoting aside, have you actually checked your garage for Armadillos. The AGW effect on Armadillos is well known, though I haven't found any sources that show a loss of visibility, yet.I can't actually prove there isn't an ..... armadillo in my garage... I can't see how it could have got there so I work on the presumption that there isn't one.
http://www.dailyclimate.org/tdc-newsroom/2011/06/a...
XM5ER said:
robinessex said:
UK 'must insulate 25 million homes'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39107973
More than one home every minute will need to be refurbished in the UK between now and 2050, experts say.
The authors of a report to Parliament say 25 million existing homes will not meet the insulation standards required by mid-century.
The UK needs to cut carbon emissions by 80% by then - and a third of those emissions come from heating draughty buildings.
The government said it would devise policies as soon as possible.
But critics say ministers have been far too slow to impose a national programme of home renovation which would save on bills and improve people's health, comfort and happiness. It would also create thousands of jobs.
Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe.
Local authorities have limited cash to insulate council homes, and landlords and owner-occupiers have proved reluctant to invest large sums in disruptive improvements that will save on bills, but take many years to pay off.
The report from a group of leading construction firms - the Green Building Council - says four out of five homes that will be occupied in 2050 have already been built.
That means 25 million homes need refurbishing to the highest standards by 2050 - at a rate of 1.4 homes every minute.
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
So that's £37,500,000,000 then !!!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bullst message !!
Yep. Done the loft, the windows, the walls and now I have to leave the windows open to stop the condensation from causing damp walls.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39107973
More than one home every minute will need to be refurbished in the UK between now and 2050, experts say.
The authors of a report to Parliament say 25 million existing homes will not meet the insulation standards required by mid-century.
The UK needs to cut carbon emissions by 80% by then - and a third of those emissions come from heating draughty buildings.
The government said it would devise policies as soon as possible.
But critics say ministers have been far too slow to impose a national programme of home renovation which would save on bills and improve people's health, comfort and happiness. It would also create thousands of jobs.
Successive governments have been criticised for failing to tackle the UK's poor housing stock - some of the worst in Europe.
Local authorities have limited cash to insulate council homes, and landlords and owner-occupiers have proved reluctant to invest large sums in disruptive improvements that will save on bills, but take many years to pay off.
The report from a group of leading construction firms - the Green Building Council - says four out of five homes that will be occupied in 2050 have already been built.
That means 25 million homes need refurbishing to the highest standards by 2050 - at a rate of 1.4 homes every minute.
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
So that's £37,500,000,000 then !!!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 28th February 14:30
That was some months ago. Has still has the sensing device and, as of the last conversation we had, the damp patch.
After they had treated the walls the contractors pointed out that external sealant may now always be whet is required and in any case a good and well sent source of damp will need some sort of air flow to be eliminated. For them that should not be a problem - they are happy to have doors open on any day the weather is half decent.
Of course it could be the result of rising damp form some badly run drains or water supplies; or it could be something to do with a dodgy solar panel fitment. Or it might just be something else entirely. But one way or another one suspect that attempting to retrofit older properties to standards intended for designed from the foundations up new build (and maybe not yet even proven technology) is asking for trouble.
On the other hand if they force the price of energy so high that only people with fully insulated homes will be able to afford to be warm and leave the other 80% of the population in the lurch ... I think they may find there is a popular and somewhat violent backlash that may scupper their arrogant plans.
Edited by LongQ on Tuesday 28th February 22:10
robinessex said:
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bullst message !!
Dunno about you mate, but if I've got condensation I open a window for a few minutes. All gone!PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Rather cheaper than spending £1000's on the PH climate change skeptic patented electrical anti-condensation system.
zygalski said:
robinessex said:
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bullst message !!
Dunno about you mate, but if I've got condensation I open a window for a few minutes. All gone!PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Rather cheaper than spending £1000's on the PH climate change skeptic patented electrical anti-condensation system.
Edited by mybrainhurts on Tuesday 28th February 23:16
zygalski said:
robinessex said:
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bullst message !!
Dunno about you mate, but if I've got condensation I open a window for a few minutes. All gone!PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Rather cheaper than spending £1000's on the PH climate change skeptic patented electrical anti-condensation system.
I would remonstrate with her about warming the planet but she would take no notice.
On the other hand you, zygalski, seem to be a keen planet saver. So what's your excuse for wasting energy and adding to Global Warming by opening your windows just to get rid of a little moisture? And what would be the point of all the attempted energy saving costs if the claimed benefits were to be negated by opening windows to inefficiently eliminate a little water, a powerful greenhouse effect material, to the atmosphere where it will cause overheating havoc and worse? Apparently.
LongQ said:
zygalski said:
robinessex said:
If you totally remove house draughts, you will get condensation! I know, lets install a condensation system that, er, needs extra electricity to run it!!
PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bullst message !!
Dunno about you mate, but if I've got condensation I open a window for a few minutes. All gone!PS. Read the comments on this article. Seems a lot have got the CC bulls
t message !!Rather cheaper than spending £1000's on the PH climate change skeptic patented electrical anti-condensation system.
I would remonstrate with her about warming the planet but she would take no notice.
On the other hand you, zygalski, seem to be a keen planet saver. So what's your excuse for wasting energy and adding to Global Warming by opening your windows just to get rid of a little moisture? And what would be the point of all the attempted energy saving costs if the claimed benefits were to be negated by opening windows to inefficiently eliminate a little water, a powerful greenhouse effect material, to the atmosphere where it will cause overheating havoc and worse? Apparently.
zygalski said:
Have you got data to prove that opening a window for 5 minutes in a 24 hour period negates energy saving costs related to insulating say the average 3 bed semi. I'd be interested to see any such proof. Or is it just more hot air from you?
Feel free to submit your figures Zyg. Diversionary blame transfer. It's been going on for some time.
The gov't or rather gov'ts have known for years that this country's energy security is in a desperate state precisely due to the lunacy of successive parliaments failing to grasp reality in terms of a workable energy policy. Daft, pointless, expensive and unachievable EU targets add to the folly.
Rather than admit this they claim domestic electricity and gas use are "out of control" ho ho ho and engage in various nudge tactics to reduce demand so that, touch wood, the precarious supply side will be able to keep up.
As long as it's not freezing cold for several cloudy days with no wind, there's a slight chance it will work for now.
Inasmuch as it saves on energy bills then OK, but with our energy supply in a desperately bad position there are other motives higher up the list.
The gov't or rather gov'ts have known for years that this country's energy security is in a desperate state precisely due to the lunacy of successive parliaments failing to grasp reality in terms of a workable energy policy. Daft, pointless, expensive and unachievable EU targets add to the folly.
Rather than admit this they claim domestic electricity and gas use are "out of control" ho ho ho and engage in various nudge tactics to reduce demand so that, touch wood, the precarious supply side will be able to keep up.
As long as it's not freezing cold for several cloudy days with no wind, there's a slight chance it will work for now.
Inasmuch as it saves on energy bills then OK, but with our energy supply in a desperately bad position there are other motives higher up the list.
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