Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
BlackLabel said:
Oh no.
Animals could start shrinking because of global warming, scientists have predicted, after discovering that mammals became ‘dwarfed’ in a similar episode of climate change 50 million years ago.
Better news for penguins though after we were told climate change was killing them.
"Scientists Miscalculate Antarctica's Penguin Population By 3.6M"
http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/03/14/scientis...
Hang on - the earth went through a similar episode of climate change 50 million years ago - all on it's own. Then came out of that episode all on it's own too.Animals could start shrinking because of global warming, scientists have predicted, after discovering that mammals became ‘dwarfed’ in a similar episode of climate change 50 million years ago.
Better news for penguins though after we were told climate change was killing them.
"Scientists Miscalculate Antarctica's Penguin Population By 3.6M"
http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/03/14/scientis...
Yet the similar episode that is occurring now results in "OMG end of the world - we need to tax 4x4s and ban 100w lightbulbs in order to stop it happening....!!!!!!!!"
Moonhawk said:
BlackLabel said:
Oh no.
Animals could start shrinking because of global warming, scientists have predicted, after discovering that mammals became ‘dwarfed’ in a similar episode of climate change 50 million years ago.
Better news for penguins though after we were told climate change was killing them.
"Scientists Miscalculate Antarctica's Penguin Population By 3.6M"
http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/03/14/scientis...
Hang on - the earth went through a similar episode of climate change 50 million years ago - all on it's own. Then came out of that episode all on it's own too.Animals could start shrinking because of global warming, scientists have predicted, after discovering that mammals became ‘dwarfed’ in a similar episode of climate change 50 million years ago.
Better news for penguins though after we were told climate change was killing them.
"Scientists Miscalculate Antarctica's Penguin Population By 3.6M"
http://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/2017/03/14/scientis...
Yet the similar episode that is occurring now results in "OMG end of the world - we need to tax 4x4s and ban 100w lightbulbs in order to stop it happening....!!!!!!!!"
Not long ago we were told that the planet is home to 3.04 trillion trees, increasing the total somewhat (!) compared to the previous estimate of 400 billion.
The polar bear population is above 25,000 and there are more of these bears now than 40 years ago.
In the light of the above errors it's hardly surprising to discover that a mere 3.6 million penguins which were previously awol are in fact present and correct.
This must mean that treebearpenguin science is finally settled ho ho ho. Unlike manbearpig.
The polar bear population is above 25,000 and there are more of these bears now than 40 years ago.
In the light of the above errors it's hardly surprising to discover that a mere 3.6 million penguins which were previously awol are in fact present and correct.
This must mean that treebearpenguin science is finally settled ho ho ho. Unlike manbearpig.
johnfm said:
So, has anyone yet concluded that the basis of measuring global climate has been settled?
Seems to me that there's been quite a bit of debate as to whether there are enough temp measuring stations, theri accuracy, their proximity to sources of heat etc.
I can't see how it can even be determined that the global climate is going one way or the other until that is sorted out.
The fundemnatal question I've kept asking, is wether it's better for the planet to get warmer or colder. Because it sure as hell ain't going to stay where it is. Which of course, makes all the AGW and CC sufff pointless bSeems to me that there's been quite a bit of debate as to whether there are enough temp measuring stations, theri accuracy, their proximity to sources of heat etc.
I can't see how it can even be determined that the global climate is going one way or the other until that is sorted out.
ks, as we can't proove/show CO2 affects temperature, and couldn't change the the quantity of the dam if we wanted to. Talk about $Trillions pissed in the wind !!!!BlackLabel said:
Wow. 50 million years agoor as we call it on this thread, Volume 2
If only the data didn't suggest cooling was on the cards in terms of a Dalton or possibly Maunder event after The Pause, rather than warming, then the shrinking animals beeb-baiter might mean something. It's just as well that the politics mean little when it comes to scientific reality, whereas credible data is paramount. Clearly the politics means much more where baseless taxes and pointless eco-authoritarian control freakery are concerned.
Todays Beeb CC puff piece:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3927...
China's 'airpocalypse' linked to Arctic sea ice loss
The air pollution that lingered over eastern China for nearly a month in 2013 has been linked to the loss of Arctic sea ice the previous autumn.
A study says the haze lasted much longer because the melting ice and increased snowfall altered wind circulation patterns.
If Arctic ice continues to shrink due to climate change, the scientists say similar events will likely recur.
They argue that this could threaten the Beijing Winter Olympics set for 2022.
Story full of the required assumptions and guesses. No concrete proof at all.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3927...
China's 'airpocalypse' linked to Arctic sea ice loss
The air pollution that lingered over eastern China for nearly a month in 2013 has been linked to the loss of Arctic sea ice the previous autumn.
A study says the haze lasted much longer because the melting ice and increased snowfall altered wind circulation patterns.
If Arctic ice continues to shrink due to climate change, the scientists say similar events will likely recur.
They argue that this could threaten the Beijing Winter Olympics set for 2022.
Story full of the required assumptions and guesses. No concrete proof at all.
Todays second Beeb CC puff piece:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3928...
Climate change: Biofuels 'could limit jet contrails'
Some close-quarter flying has provided new insights into aircraft pollution.
US space agency-led scientists flew small, instrumented, chase planes directly in the exhaust plume of a big jet to measure the sorts of gases and particles being thrown out.
The data suggests aircraft burning a mix of aviation kerosene and biofuel could reduce their climate impact.
This would come from a substantial reduction in the production of the sooty particles that make contrails.
"Those soot particles serve as nuclei for water vapour in the very cold atmosphere to condense on and for the artificial-looking linear contrails that we see when we look out the window," explained Richard Moore from Nasa's Langley Research Center.
"You’ll then see those lines spread and form cirrus clouds that weren't there before the plane flew through the airspace.
"We know these contrails and cirrus clouds have a warming effect on the Earth's climate, and it's currently thought the warming effect associated with those clouds is more significant than all of the carbon dioxide emitted by aviation since the first powered flights began," he told the Science In Action programme on the BBC World Service.
We even have a could in the title of this piece !!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3928...
Climate change: Biofuels 'could limit jet contrails'
Some close-quarter flying has provided new insights into aircraft pollution.
US space agency-led scientists flew small, instrumented, chase planes directly in the exhaust plume of a big jet to measure the sorts of gases and particles being thrown out.
The data suggests aircraft burning a mix of aviation kerosene and biofuel could reduce their climate impact.
This would come from a substantial reduction in the production of the sooty particles that make contrails.
"Those soot particles serve as nuclei for water vapour in the very cold atmosphere to condense on and for the artificial-looking linear contrails that we see when we look out the window," explained Richard Moore from Nasa's Langley Research Center.
"You’ll then see those lines spread and form cirrus clouds that weren't there before the plane flew through the airspace.
"We know these contrails and cirrus clouds have a warming effect on the Earth's climate, and it's currently thought the warming effect associated with those clouds is more significant than all of the carbon dioxide emitted by aviation since the first powered flights began," he told the Science In Action programme on the BBC World Service.
We even have a could in the title of this piece !!
The 3rd today Beeb CC puff piece:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39278435
Low carbon drive 'cuts household bills'
Britain's low carbon energy revolution is actually saving money for households, a report says.
Households make a net saving of £11 a month, according to analysis from the Committee on Climate Change.
It calculates that subsidies to wind and solar are adding £9 a month to the average bill, but that rules promoting energy efficiency save £20 a month.
The finding will be challenged by groups which say the UK spends too much on renewable energy.
Selectively pick the data, and you can proove almost anything.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39278435
Low carbon drive 'cuts household bills'
Britain's low carbon energy revolution is actually saving money for households, a report says.
Households make a net saving of £11 a month, according to analysis from the Committee on Climate Change.
It calculates that subsidies to wind and solar are adding £9 a month to the average bill, but that rules promoting energy efficiency save £20 a month.
The finding will be challenged by groups which say the UK spends too much on renewable energy.
Selectively pick the data, and you can proove almost anything.
robinessex said:
It calculates that subsidies to wind and solar are adding £9 a month to the average bill, but that rules promoting energy efficiency save £20 a month.
Great. So ignore the CO2 crapola and just do the energy efficiency stuff (which no-one disagrees with in principle *) and we save £20 a month.All this Trojan Horse stuff of hiding the AGW b
ks behind efficiency and/or real pollution really pees me off.(* I did read there were problems with lack of ventilation but can't remember the details)
Thanks for the link. As expected, no holds barred there from D'pole.
ETA this was the link!
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/28/climate...
ETA this was the link!
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/28/climate...
turbobloke said:
Thanks for the link. As expected, no holds barred there from D'pole.
Oops! Sorry TBDeleted to re write as it was from last year....
James Delingpole from last year: Here is an edited version of a speech on this subject I gave last week to the World Taxpayers’ Associations in Berlin.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/28/climate...
Germany to push for carbon price at G20:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3929...
Germany to push for carbon price at G20
Germany will use its G20 Presidency to nudge world leaders towards a global price on carbon, according to its director general of energy policy.
Thorsten Herdan told BBC News that the world can’t stabilise CO2 emissions without making polluters pay.
Mr Herdan, of the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy, said if renewables got cheaper still, the market would respond by dropping the coal price more.
Some of President Trump’s advisers have argued that any carbon price should be fixed at zero to reflect the benefits of fossil fuels.
But German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to try to persuade President Trump that the world is moving towards clean energy.
Mr Herdan said that the German government was preparing research that would reveal that business is showing huge support for a transition towards a low carbon economy.
It will be presented at the G20 in Hamburg in July, when climate change and sustainable development will be among a handful of major themes.
So, an artificial value on a substance that has not been shown to be off any significance what so ever in the CC fairy tail. Never mind, keep following the money.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3929...
Germany to push for carbon price at G20
Germany will use its G20 Presidency to nudge world leaders towards a global price on carbon, according to its director general of energy policy.
Thorsten Herdan told BBC News that the world can’t stabilise CO2 emissions without making polluters pay.
Mr Herdan, of the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy, said if renewables got cheaper still, the market would respond by dropping the coal price more.
Some of President Trump’s advisers have argued that any carbon price should be fixed at zero to reflect the benefits of fossil fuels.
But German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to try to persuade President Trump that the world is moving towards clean energy.
Mr Herdan said that the German government was preparing research that would reveal that business is showing huge support for a transition towards a low carbon economy.
It will be presented at the G20 in Hamburg in July, when climate change and sustainable development will be among a handful of major themes.
So, an artificial value on a substance that has not been shown to be off any significance what so ever in the CC fairy tail. Never mind, keep following the money.
steveT350C said:
turbobloke said:
Thanks for the link. As expected, no holds barred there from D'pole.
Oops! Sorry TBDeleted to re write as it was from last year....
James Delingpole from last year: Here is an edited version of a speech on this subject I gave last week to the World Taxpayers’ Associations in Berlin.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/28/climate...
Righto, understood, but it's still no holds barred and an excellent read which I can't recall being posted on these threads previously.
robinessex said:
The 3rd today Beeb CC puff piece:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39278435
Low carbon drive 'cuts household bills'
Britain's low carbon energy revolution is actually saving money for households, a report says.
Households make a net saving of £11 a month, according to analysis from the Committee on Climate Change.
It calculates that subsidies to wind and solar are adding £9 a month to the average bill, but that rules promoting energy efficiency save £20 a month.
The finding will be challenged by groups which say the UK spends too much on renewable energy.
Selectively pick the data, and you can proove almost anything.
The nice people at E-On wrote to me today suggesting I might like to look for another supplier because they are about to put my bill up by an estimated £158 a year which of course is about £13 per month on average.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-39278435
Low carbon drive 'cuts household bills'
Britain's low carbon energy revolution is actually saving money for households, a report says.
Households make a net saving of £11 a month, according to analysis from the Committee on Climate Change.
It calculates that subsidies to wind and solar are adding £9 a month to the average bill, but that rules promoting energy efficiency save £20 a month.
The finding will be challenged by groups which say the UK spends too much on renewable energy.
Selectively pick the data, and you can proove almost anything.
Interestingly my electricity and Gas costs are almost identical currently despite introducing a few low consumption bulbs over the years and similar with some other devices whilst changing from Gas cooking to electric about 9 years ago for some reason I have forgotten. I thought that made my gas look expensive.
However the gas is "only" increasing by £33 per annum (estimate) whilst the 'leccy will be increasing by £124 despite all of the "free" energy being harvested.
Of course they are blaming this on "costs they cannot control" like "government environmental and social schemes, which support renewable energy and help insulate homes, as well as network costs which transport energy to our customers' homes." Of course none of these weak excuses mention that that actually do not care that this increase is happening because the entire industry is in effect a government sponsored cartel of self interest and they know that whatever the customer churn may be it will likely make very little difference to them in the final analysis.
robinessex said:
Germany to push for carbon price at G20:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3929...
Germany to push for carbon price at G20
Germany will use its G20 Presidency to nudge world leaders towards a global price on carbon, according to its director general of energy policy.
Thorsten Herdan told BBC News that the world can’t stabilise CO2 emissions without making polluters pay.
Mr Herdan, of the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy, said if renewables got cheaper still, the market would respond by dropping the coal price more.
Some of President Trump’s advisers have argued that any carbon price should be fixed at zero to reflect the benefits of fossil fuels.
But German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to try to persuade President Trump that the world is moving towards clean energy.
Mr Herdan said that the German government was preparing research that would reveal that business is showing huge support for a transition towards a low carbon economy.
It will be presented at the G20 in Hamburg in July, when climate change and sustainable development will be among a handful of major themes.
So, an artificial value on a substance that has not been shown to be off any significance what so ever in the CC fairy tail. Never mind, keep following the money.
Tulip economies if they agree to it.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3929...
Germany to push for carbon price at G20
Germany will use its G20 Presidency to nudge world leaders towards a global price on carbon, according to its director general of energy policy.
Thorsten Herdan told BBC News that the world can’t stabilise CO2 emissions without making polluters pay.
Mr Herdan, of the Federal Ministry for Economic Affairs and Energy, said if renewables got cheaper still, the market would respond by dropping the coal price more.
Some of President Trump’s advisers have argued that any carbon price should be fixed at zero to reflect the benefits of fossil fuels.
But German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to try to persuade President Trump that the world is moving towards clean energy.
Mr Herdan said that the German government was preparing research that would reveal that business is showing huge support for a transition towards a low carbon economy.
It will be presented at the G20 in Hamburg in July, when climate change and sustainable development will be among a handful of major themes.
So, an artificial value on a substance that has not been shown to be off any significance what so ever in the CC fairy tail. Never mind, keep following the money.
Polluters and pollution, righto; that's got nothing to do with carbon dioxide which is a naturally occurring trace gas and not a pollutant, even though the pro-Obama era EPA tried to mislabel it. Let's hope Germany and other EU nations go that way as we leave. The UK economy would overtake Germany even more quickly than it will do anyway. Thorsten Herdan needs to bleat more and get the sheep in line, and our politicians need to act like rational people rather than dumb animals blinded by faith.
Einion Yrth said:
turbobloke said:
our politicians need to act like rational people rather than dumb animals blinded by faith.
I'll not be holding my breath...Todays Beeb CC puff piece.
Trump's 'drain the swamp' budget to hit swamp dwellers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3930...
"We're not spending money on climate change any more," said Mick Mulvaney, the White House budget director.
"We consider that to be a waste of your money to go out and do that."
That stern statement outlining President Trump's budget plans to cut spending on global warming in the US and around the world will disappoint the 6,000 people who live in the swampy Indonesian village of Cendi Manik.
They may not have heard much about the detail of the president's new financial priorities but they do know that US money has made a massive difference to their lives and livelihoods.
Climate change is driving up sea levels around this coastal habitation on the island of Lombok - but with funding from the US government through USAID, the World Neighbors NGO has helped residents of the village to plant 11,000 mangroves that have limited the worst impacts of tidal flooding.
The new trees not only help control the waters but they have also boosted supplies of shellfish and crabs, which are important sources of income when floods hit other crops. Tourism is also beginning to develop in the area.
The mangrove operation caught the attention of Indonesia's Ministry of Marine Affairs and Fisheries. So impressed were they that they've allocated funding to procure and plant another 120,000 tree seedlings to cover almost 10 hectares of threatened coastline.
US funding for Cendi Manik amounts to only a few thousand dollars and while it has been extended for another year, with USAID facing cuts of around one third of its budget, the future is highly uncertain.
So just how much has the ocen risen in Indonesia then ? And what caused it ?
Trump's 'drain the swamp' budget to hit swamp dwellers
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3930...
"We're not spending money on climate change any more," said Mick Mulvaney, the White House budget director.
"We consider that to be a waste of your money to go out and do that."
That stern statement outlining President Trump's budget plans to cut spending on global warming in the US and around the world will disappoint the 6,000 people who live in the swampy Indonesian village of Cendi Manik.
They may not have heard much about the detail of the president's new financial priorities but they do know that US money has made a massive difference to their lives and livelihoods.
Climate change is driving up sea levels around this coastal habitation on the island of Lombok - but with funding from the US government through USAID, the World Neighbors NGO has helped residents of the village to plant 11,000 mangroves that have limited the worst impacts of tidal flooding.
The new trees not only help control the waters but they have also boosted supplies of shellfish and crabs, which are important sources of income when floods hit other crops. Tourism is also beginning to develop in the area.
The mangrove operation caught the attention of Indonesia's Ministry of Marine Affairs and Fisheries. So impressed were they that they've allocated funding to procure and plant another 120,000 tree seedlings to cover almost 10 hectares of threatened coastline.
US funding for Cendi Manik amounts to only a few thousand dollars and while it has been extended for another year, with USAID facing cuts of around one third of its budget, the future is highly uncertain.
So just how much has the ocen risen in Indonesia then ? And what caused it ?
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