Climate change - the POLITICAL debate. Vol 4
Discussion
durbster said:
I just feel sad that I've helped drag this nonsense out to a fourth volume. 
you have contributed most of the nonsense , so don't feel too bad. re your last reply on the old thread. the pdo was discovered by a fisheries researcher ,it is known to be the driver of fish movements as a result. if the current lot of marine biologists can take their eye off the co2 grant train for a minute they might understand what many fishermen already do in that the amo has a similar effect . the pdo and amo can easily be responsible for just about every change on land and sea you claim to be evidence of agw occurring as predicted.
another 30 years of observation should just about clear the entire debate up,maybe a lot less depending how quick the drop into the cool phase of the amo is .
wc98 said:
...the pdo and amo can easily be responsible for just about every change on land and sea...
Bearing in mind 'agw occurring as predicted' is false and not worthy of further comment - and while aware that this is the politics thread - there was also something a few posts ago (near the end of vol 3 iirc) about papers that go against IPCC orthodoxy. This and the pdo / amo post above allow for something a little bit scientific 
Recalling that NALOPKT is the secondary source here (so shooting the messenger = pointless as always) here are papers which refer to the role of ocean oscillations in driving climate change. It's a snapshot from some time in 2016 and refers to only those papers published up to that point in the year.
It's been mentioned in this thread before, but then so has almost anything raised by anyone
hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite.The first subset looks directly at ocean oscillations, the second subset then explores solar influence on ocean oscillations.
Natural Ocean Oscillations Drive Climate
Chen et al., 2016
Multiscale evolution of surface air temperature in the arid region of Northwest China [ARNC] and its linkages to ocean oscillations
Compared with the reconstructed interannual variation, the reconstructed interdecadal variability plays a decisive role in the ARNC [northwest China] warming and reveals the climatic pattern transformation from the cold period to the warm period before and after 1987. Additionally, there were also regional differences in the spatial patterns of change trend in the ARNC temperature at a given time. We also found that the AMO and PDO had significant impacts on the ARNC [northwest China] temperature fluctuation at an interdecadal scale
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Faust et al., 2016
A recent study of instrumental time series revealed NAO [North Atlantic Oscillation] as main factor for a strong relation between winter temperature, precipitation and river discharge in central Norway over the past 50 years. … The [NAO proxy record] shows distinct co-variability with climate changes over Greenland, solar activity and Northern Hemisphere glacier dynamics as well as climatically associated paleo-demographic trends.
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Livsey et al., 2016
Spatial-temporal analysis of United States precipitation data from 1900 to 1999 indicates that the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) primarily modulates drought frequency. Changes in the extended drought record correspond with timing of the Roman Climate Optimum, Medieval Warm Period, Little Ice Age … AMO modulated drought in southern Texas for the last 3000 years.
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Valdés-Manzanilla, 2016
Most of flood periods coincided with the warm phase of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO). … Logistic regression showed that AMO index was the most correlated index with flood events. In fact, the odds ratio showed that floods were 1.90 times more likely to occur when AMO index was positive.
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Yu et al., 2016
The interannual relationship between North American (NA) winter temperature and large-scale atmospheric circulation anomalies and its decadal variation are analyzed. … NA [North American] temperature is largely controlled by these three large-scale atmospheric patterns, i.e., the PNA [Pacific-North American pattern], ABNA [Asian-Bering-North American pattern] and NAO [North Atlantic Oscillation] .
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Wang et al., 2016
Tree-ring-based reconstruction of temperature variability (1445–2011) for the upper reaches of the Heihe River Basin, Northwest China
Spectral analyses suggested that the reconstructed annual mean temperature variation may be related to large-scale atmospheric–oceanic variability such as the solar activity, Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) and El Niño–Southern Oscillation (ENSO).
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Krishnamurthy and Krishnamurthy, 2016
Introduction: On interannual timescale, El Niño-Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is known to have a major impact on the Indian monsoon (Sikka, 1980; Rasmusson and Carpenter, 1983). … On decadal to multidecadal timescales, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO), the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, and the Atlantic tripole mode determine the variability of rainfall over India (Sen Roy et al., 2003; Lu et al., 2006; Zhang and Delworth, 2006; Li et al., 2008; Sen Roy, 2011; Krishnamurthy and Krishnamurthy, 2014a, 2014b, 2016b).
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Liu et al., 2016
Drought variations in the study area significantly correlated with sea surface temperatures (SSTs) in North Pacific Ocean, suggesting a possible connection of regional hydroclimatic variations to the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO).
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Diaz et al., 2016
Hawaiian Islands rainfall exhibits strong modulation by El Niño–Southern Oscillation (ENSO), as well as in relation to Pacific decadal oscillation (PDO)-like variability. For significant periods of time, the reconstructed large-scale changes in the North Pacific SLP field described here and by construction the long-term decline in Hawaiian winter rainfall are broadly consistent with long-term changes in tropical Pacific sea surface temperature (SST) based on ENSO reconstructions documented in several other studies, particularly over the last two centuries.
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Qiaohong et al., 2016
Century-scale causal relationships between global drought conditions and the state of the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans
In this study, the Granger causality test is used to examine the effects of ENSO, PDO, and NAO on global drought conditions. The results show robust relationships between drought conditions and the ocean states …ENSO and PDO may reinforce each other to dominate climate variability over North America and northern South America. Climate variability in southern Europe and northern Africa may be forced by the concurrence of ENSO and NAO.
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McCarthy et al., 2015
Decadal variability is a notable feature of the Atlantic Ocean and the climate of the regions it influences. Prominently, this is manifested in the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) in sea surface temperatures. Positive (negative) phases of the AMO coincide with warmer (colder) North Atlantic sea surface temperatures. The AMO is linked with decadal climate fluctuations, such as Indian and Sahel rainfall, European summer precipitation, Atlantic hurricanes and variations in global temperatures. It is widely believed that ocean circulation drives the phase changes of the AMO by controlling ocean heat content.
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Toonen et al., 2016
Multi-decadal and centennial variability in flood activity is recorded in extended series of discharge data, historical information and sedimentary records. Over the last six centuries that variability correlates with components of the Atlantic climate system such as the North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) and Atlantic Multi-decadal Oscillation (AMO).
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Nagy et al., 2016
Results from a multiregression analysis of the global and sea surface temperature anomalies for the period 1950–2011 are presented where among the independent variables multidecade oscillation signals over various oceanic areas are included. These indices are defined in analogy with the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) index. Unexpectedly we find that a strong multidecade oscillation signal echoing the AMO is also present in the Western and Northwestern Pacific region. The results indicate that naturally induced climate variations seem to be dominated by two internal variability modes of the ocean–atmosphere system: AMO and El Niño Southern Oscillation
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Laken and Stordal, 2016
When seasonal restrictions were added the results were similar, however, we found one clearly significant result: an increase in southerly flow of 2.6±0.8 days/month (p=1.9×10?4) during boreal summertime in association with El Niño. This result supports the existence of a robust teleconnection between the ENSO and European weather.
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Zanardo et al., 2016
Investigating the relationship between North Atlantic Oscillation and flood losses at the European scale
The North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) is Europe’s dominant mode of climate variability. … We found significant correlations between the NAO signal and both the average annual loss (AAL) and the average seasonal loss (ASL) [due to floods], for all the countries analysed.
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García-García and Ummenhofer, 2015
Multidecadal variability of the continental precipitation annual amplitude driven by AMO and ENSO
Here we show that continental precipitation annual amplitude, which represents the annual range between minimum and maximum (monthly) rainfall, covaries with a linear combination of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation and low-frequency variations in the El Niño–Southern Oscillation on a decadal to multidecadal scale with a correlation coefficient of 0.92 (P?<?0.01).
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Dieppois et al., 2016
Furthermore, since the end of the 19th century, we find an increasing variance in multidecadal hydroclimatic winter and spring, and this coincides with an increase in the multidecadal North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) variability, suggesting a significant influence of large-scale atmospheric circulation patterns. However, multidecadal NAO variability has decreased in summer. Using Empirical Orthogonal Function analysis, we detect multidecadal North Atlantic sea-level pressure anomalies, which are significantly linked to the NAO during the Modern period.
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Penalba and Rivera, 2016
The ENSO phenomenon is one of the key factors that influence the interannual variability of precipitation over Southern South America. The aim of this study is to identify the regional response of precipitation to El Niño/La Niña events [during 1961-2008], with emphasis in drought conditions. [W]e calculated the mean SPI [standardized precipitation index] values for the El Niño and La Niña years and assessed its significance through bootstrap analysis. We found coherent and significant SPI [standardized precipitation index] responses to ENSO phases in most of the seven regions considered
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Gastineau and Frankignoul, 2015
The SST [sea surface temperature] influence is dominated by the Atlantic multidecadal oscillation (AMO), which also has a horseshoe shape, but with larger amplitude in the subpolar basin. A warm AMO phase leads to an atmospheric warming limited to the lower troposphere in summer, while it leads to a negative phase of the NAO in winter.
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Li et al., 2016
The twentieth century Northern Hemisphere mean surface temperature (NHT) is characterized by a multidecadal warming-cooling-warming pattern followed by a flat trend since about 2000 (recent warming hiatus). Here we demonstrate that the multidcadal variability in NHT including the recent warming hiatus is tied to the NAT-NAO-AMO-AMOC coupled mode and the NAO is implicated as a useful predictor of NHT multidecadal variability. An NAO-based linear model is therefore established to predict the NHT, which gives an excellent hindcast for NHT in 1971-2011 with the recent flat trend well predicted.
Total Solar Activity Drives Ocean Oscillations
Yamakawa et al., 2016
This study attempted to determine the relationships between solar activity and SST [sea surface temperature]. Instrumental data from 1901 to 2011 revealed a significant positive relationship on a global basis.
Conclusion: The analysis of the relationship between variations in solar activity and SST from 1901 to 2011 indicated that sunspot numbers and SST were positively correlated in wide areas, with statistically significant positive correlations in many regions. … It is worthy of note that the highest coefficients at a 29-month lag were found in the relationships both between SSN [sunspot number] and PDO [Pacific Decadal Oscillation], and SSN and CP El Niño with statistical significance at the 99% confidence level, respectively.
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Salau et al., 2016
Discussion of the Results: The results show that there is good connection between ENSO events and the changes in the background temperature and the precipitation in Nigeria. … Overall, the investigation shows a linear relationship between the solar radiation and the induced temperature, thus indicating that the observed variations in the temperature are mainly controlled by the insolation forcing
Conclusion: The outcome shows good link between the ENSO events and the Nigerian climate with the strongest agreement coming from the Niño 3 region of the Tropical Pacific. … The finding indicates that the primary driver of climate like the south-westerlies that brings monsoon into the country from South Atlantic Ocean, the north-easterlies that lead to Tropical dry climate in the North and the ITCZ, which is sandwiched between the air masses, could be affected by changes in ENSO events. According to the results, the major link between an ENSO event and changes in the temperature and rainfall in Nigeria is associated with shifts in the ITCZ position.
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Liu et al., 2015
Modulation of decadal ENSO-like variation by effective solar radiation
Here, we show that the effective solar radiation (ESR), which includes the net solar radiation and the effects of volcanic eruption, has modulated this decadal ENSO-like oscillation. The eastern Pacific warming (cooling) associated with this decadal ENSO-like oscillation over the past 139 years is significantly related to weak (strong) ESR [effective solar radiation].
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Katsuki et al., 2016
[W]e reconstructed the history of typhoon and storm-rain activity only for the interval AD 1400–1900. The record indicates that typhoon frequency throughout the Korean Peninsula varied in response to the state of the El Niño/Southern Oscillation. Typhoon variability was likely modulated further by the state of the East Asia summer monsoon (EASM) pattern, associated with variation in the magnitude of solar irradiance. During periods of minimum solar activity, such as the early Maunder Minimum (AD 1650–1675), typhoons struck the east China coast and Korean Peninsula more frequently because of a strengthened EASM.
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Czymzik et al., 2016
Flood frequency in the River Ammer discharge record is significantly correlated to changes in solar activity when the flood record lags the solar signal by 2–3 years (2-year lag: r?=??0.375, p?=?0.01; 3-year lag: r?=??0.371, p?=?0.03). Flood layer frequency in the Ammersee sediment record depicts distinct multi-decadal variations and significant correlations to a total solar irradiance reconstruction (r?=??0.4, p?<??0.0001) and 14C production rates (r?=?0.37, p?<??0.0001), reflecting changes in solar activity. On all timescales, flood frequency is higher when solar activity is reduced. … [T]he significant correlations as well as similar atmospheric circulation patterns might provide empirical support for a solar influence on hydroclimate extremes in central Europe during spring and summer by the so-called solar top-down mechanism.
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Malik and Brönnimann, 2016
We conclude that the positive relation between AISMR [All Indian Summer Monsoon Rainfall] and solar activity, as found by other authors, is due to the combined effect of AMO, PDO and multi-decadal ENSO variability on AISMR. The solar activity influences the ICFs [internal climate forcings] and this influence is then transmitted to AISMR. … We also find that there is statistical significant negative relationship between AISMR and ENSO on inter-annual to centennial time scale and the strength of this relationship is modulated by solar activity from 3 to 40 year time scale.
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Lakshmi and Tiwari, 2015
The 11 years solar cycle acts an important driving force for variations in the space weather, ultimately giving rise to climatic changes. Therefore, it is very important to understand the origin of space climate by analyzing the different proxies of solar magnetic variability. The another most important climate variation is El Niño–Southern Oscillation (ENSO) events, which impact the global oceanic and atmospheric circulations which thereby produce droughts, floods and intense rainfall in certain regions. The strong coupling and interactions between the Tropical Ocean and atmosphere play a major role in the development of global climatic system. … In particular, the El Niño, solar, geomagnetic activities are the major affecting forces on the decadal and interdecadal temperature variability on global and regional scales in a direct/indirect way. …. The 11 year solar cyclic variations observed from the several temperature climate records also suggest the impact of solar irradiance variability on terrestrial temperature …These findings suggest that there is possible strong coupling between temperature–ENSO and solar–geomagnetic signals.
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Wang et al., 2016
The broad comparability between the HML paleo-proxies, Chinese speleothem ?18Orecords, and the northern hemisphere summer insolation throughout the Holocene, suggests that solar insolation exerts a profound influence on ASM [Asian summer monsoon] changes. These findings reinforce a model of combined insolation and glacial forcing of the ASM.
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Tiwari et al., 2015
Invariably the splitting of spectral peaks corresponding to solar signal indicated nonlinear characteristics of the data and; therefore, even small variations in the solar output may help in catalyzing the coupled El Niño-atmospheric ENSO cycles by altering the solar heat input to the oceans. We, therefore, conclude that the Indian temperature variability is probably driven by the nonlinear coupling of ENSO and solar activity.
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Salas et al., 2016
Water reservoirs in the main aquifer (Section III) and in the Santa Juana dam are highly sensitive to ENSO oscillation climatic patterns. The main climatic events that control this record are the El Niño and La Niña events. In addition, the climatic influence of the westerlies and the SE extratropical moisture were also identified. Spectral analysis identified the presence of a 22.9-year cycle in piezometric levels of the alluvial aquifer of the Huasco River. This cycle is consistent with the 22-year Hale solar cycle, suggesting the existence of a solar forcing controlling the ENSO oscillations.
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Hassan et al., 2016
The various techniques have been used to confer the existence of significant relations between the number of Sunspots and different terrestrial climate parameters such as rainfall, temperature, dewdrops, aerosol and ENSO etc. Improved understanding and modelling of Sunspots variations can explore the information about the related variables. This study uses a Markov chain method to find the relations between monthly Sunspots and ENSO data of two epochs (1996–2009 and 1950–2014). … [P]erfect validation of dependency and stationary tests endorses the applicability of the Markov chain analyses on Sunspots and ENSO data. This shows that a significant relation between Sunspots and ENSO data exists.
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Wahab et al., 2016
Understanding the influence of solar variability on the Earth’s climate requires knowledge of solar variability, solar interactions, and the mechanisms explain the response of the Earth’s climate system. The NAO (North Atlantic oscillation) is one of the most dominant modes of global climate variability. Like El Niño, La Niña, and the Southern Oscillation, it is considered as free internal oscillation of the climate system not subjected to external forcing. It is shown, to be linked to energetic solar eruptions. Surprisingly, it turns out that features of solar activity have been related to El Niño and La Niña, also have an significant impact on the NAO. NAO- has a related impacts on winter climate extend from Florida to Greenland and from northwestern Africa over Europe far into northern Asian region.
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Bernal et al., 2016
[A]tmospheric circulation over South America and monsoon intensity have been tightly correlated throughout most of the Holocene, both directly responding to solar precession. … We also detect periods where rainfall amount in northeastern and southeastern Brazil are markedly anti-phased, suggesting a north-south migration of SACZ, which it appears to be mediated by solar irradiance.
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Malik et al., 2016
In this study, we undertake another effort towards understanding the role of the Sun in changing or varying the Earth’s climate on seasonal to decadal time scale. We focus on effects of varying solar activity on All Indian Summer Monsoon Rainfall (AISMR) and try to investigate how much the prediction of AISMR on a seasonal to decadal time scale can be improved by considering the solar irradiance variability in climate models. … Further, in our analysis we have found strong statistical evidence of the influence of solar activity on AMO and AISMR. We have found highly statistically significant evidence that North Atlantic SSTs are positively correlated with TSI on annual (CC 0.46), decadal (CC 0.55) and multidecadal time scales (CC 0.42) during the period 1600-2000. Also AMO influences the Niño3 and AISMR.
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Serykh and Sonechkin, 2016
Basing on a mathematical idea about the so-called strange nonchaotic attractor (SNA) in the quasi-periodically forced dynamical systems, the currently available re-analyses data are considered. It is found that the El Niño – Southern Oscillation (ENSO) is driven not only by the seasonal heating, but also by three more external periodicities (incommensurate to the annual period) associated with the ~18.6-year lunar-solar nutation of the Earth rotation axis, ~11-year sunspot activity cycle and the ~14-month Chandler wobble in the Earth’s pole motion.
durbster said:
And fish stocks are moving as would be expected in response to climate change, according to NOAA (and fishermen)
Your reasoning is so shallow/flawed it is hilarious - you really have no credibility/shame whatsoever.All animals constantly move, constantly adapt, climate is always changing. It was the Arctic warming that opened up new fishing grounds in the North Atlantic/Arctic early in the 20thC, before global warming was even 'invented'. This is well documented.
It is also well documented by peer reviewed papers that most if not all of the poster child animal scare stories, Polar bear, Walrus, Pika etc. are entirely delusional and not based in fact but in confirmation bias and atrociously inept/dishonest science.
None of this proves or disproves anything except that things change, it certainly has nothing to do with proving dangerous man-made global warming exists.
"The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consulafft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm. Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds."
Report dated November 2, 1922.
My God, we survived it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report dated November 2, 1922.
My God, we survived it all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Late in the day Beeb CC piece:-
Obama says shift to green energy is 'irreversible' despite Trump
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3856...
In the article, the President argues that a "massive scientific record" shows that climate change is "real and cannot be ignored".
Been fed the wrong info then, hasn't he?
Obama says shift to green energy is 'irreversible' despite Trump
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3856...
In the article, the President argues that a "massive scientific record" shows that climate change is "real and cannot be ignored".
Been fed the wrong info then, hasn't he?
Todays Beeb CC puff story
Warming world harming insects' reproduction, says study
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3855...
"A warming world harms insects' ability to reproduce, which could have long-term consequences, scientists warn."
10 words in, and we have the inevitable 'could'.
And we follow up with the required CC tenuous link
"While global average temperatures are not projected to increase by 5.0C or more, climate modellers have suggested that extreme weather events, such as heat-waves and droughts, are set to become more frequent. In these events, localised temperatures are set to meet the conditions in which insects' ability to reproduce will be harmed."
Warming world harming insects' reproduction, says study
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-3855...
"A warming world harms insects' ability to reproduce, which could have long-term consequences, scientists warn."
10 words in, and we have the inevitable 'could'.
And we follow up with the required CC tenuous link
"While global average temperatures are not projected to increase by 5.0C or more, climate modellers have suggested that extreme weather events, such as heat-waves and droughts, are set to become more frequent. In these events, localised temperatures are set to meet the conditions in which insects' ability to reproduce will be harmed."
turbobloke said:
It's been mentioned in this thread before, but then so has almost anything raised by anyone hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite.
...
massive list of papers
Considering No Tricks Zone has been shown to wilfully and grossly misrepresent the papers it lists, I completely understand why you didn't post your source: http://notrickszone.com/2016/08/11/35-new-scientif... hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite....
massive list of papers
But I'm at a loss as to why you bothered. All it seems to do is expose the hypocrisy and inconsistency of your argument, and that it is unsupported by science.
I mean, the very first first paper begins:
Chen et al said:
The global climate has experienced unprecedented warming in the past century.
But you once said:turbobloke said:
...like the IPCC and anyone else rash enough to make the suggestion, totally and hopelessly wrong and off the piste when claiming that current warming is unprecedented.
So can you please explain why you've posted this list? Are you suggesting this is somehow scientific evidence against AGW, because you must know that's not the case.durbster said:
turbobloke said:
It's been mentioned in this thread before, but then so has almost anything raised by anyone hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite.
...
massive list of papers
Considering No Tricks Zone has been shown to wilfully and grossly misrepresent the papers it lists... hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite....
massive list of papers
Apart from shooting the messenger in another pointless act of diversion, and fulfilling my other prediction of a soundbite smear, the papers are listed - check them out and get back to us. The selection I gave gives meat, not just the citation. It's easy for others to make their own minds up.
The last time I suggested this 'get back to us' with a smaller set of papers, you forgot the 'get back to us' bit.
Same old. Next.
turbobloke said:
durbster said:
turbobloke said:
It's been mentioned in this thread before, but then so has almost anything raised by anyone hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite.
...
massive list of papers
Considering No Tricks Zone has been shown to wilfully and grossly misrepresent the papers it lists... hopefully it will fit within the PH post character limit, the link wouldn't have the same impact and could easily be skipped over with some vacuous soundbite....
massive list of papers
Apart from shooting the messenger in another pointless act of diversion, and fulfilling my other prediction of a soundbite smear, the papers are listed - check them out and get back to us. The selection I gave gives meat, not just the citation. It's easy for others to make their own minds up.
The last time I suggested this 'get back to us' with a smaller set of papers, you forgot the 'get back to us' bit.
Same old. Next.
That the oceans and Sun are the main drivers of climate is well known and not in dispute. That information is then used to give a context to AGW.
There are tens of thousands of papers backing up my position, I couldn't possibly post them all.
durbster said:
I will check them out if you can explain why you've posted them.
That the oceans and Sun are the main drivers of climate is well known and not in dispute. That information is then used to give a context to AGW.
There are tens of thousands of papers backing up my position, I couldn't possibly post them all.
So pick out ONE then that proves your belief. Where is the causality then? And still irrelevant, as you haven't answered the question, planet warmer or colder. I wonder why?That the oceans and Sun are the main drivers of climate is well known and not in dispute. That information is then used to give a context to AGW.
There are tens of thousands of papers backing up my position, I couldn't possibly post them all.
Edited by robinessex on Tuesday 10th January 09:42
durbster said:
I will check them out if you can explain why you've posted them.
If you re-read the post which introduced them, it explains everything very clearly as I specifically wanted to explain why I was posting them.Not reading posts, knee jerk reaction - same old believer tactics, sad really.
The papers are still as claimed. Smear failure strikes again.
durbster said:
There are tens of thousands of papers backing up my position, I couldn't possibly post them all.
Thousands of pal reviewed papers, possibly, but the data doesn't agree with your position and by direct implication it doesn't agree with the papers you allude to. It does agree with another interpretation of (natural) climate change, however.It now remains to be seen how long it takes for somebody to head over to FakeClimate, DeSmog, SkepticalBeliever, Grist et al for some ready made dreck on ~30 papers, though I doubt all are covered so it will be interesting to see what if anything emerges.
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