Nurses: The NHS is at breaking point
Discussion
rambo19 said:
My sister says the same thing. She is a nurse in a stroke unit.
So many hoops to jump through in order to report a bad member of staff, and if the member of staff is non white british, the race card comes out straight away.
A relative is head of the employment law department of a major financial institution in the City. She deals with many cases where 'race' or 'sex discrimination' are involved. Usually in cases of unfair dismissal. This annoys her no end. So many hoops to jump through in order to report a bad member of staff, and if the member of staff is non white british, the race card comes out straight away.
Not because in many cases these factors are not important, they are. But, the way that these claims, often spurious, make it harder for minorities and women to get jobs in the first place. It's seen as potentially more trouble than it's worth. So, a white male is given the job as he's liable to be less hassle in the hiring and firing stakes.
Sad but true.
hifihigh said:
I hate the phrase magic money tree.
If ppl are sick they are not paying taxes.
I'm not sure why you are trying to say total spending isn't part of nhs.
spending on care should be the same or more as other countries on healthcare.
Too many quangos. Isn't our environment agency ten times bigger than germanys fir example? If ppl are sick they are not paying taxes.
I'm not sure why you are trying to say total spending isn't part of nhs.
spending on care should be the same or more as other countries on healthcare.
I truly despair at the constant cries of crisis from the left and health lobbies. There is absolutely no way there can be any rational debate about the NHS, and its future in the UK, until this stops. Money is not the issue, never has been, every Labour government has thrown cash at the issue and its back in crisis in a week.
The only metric that matters is the one for patient outcomes, everything else is a complete red herring. In this area the NHS is way down the pecking order of developed nations, cancer being a very obvious example.
Even a cursory Google will tell you that privatisation must have some part to play, the US, per capita, put in more than we do from taxation, but also top up private funds as well. They also do better at patient outcomes. The state, and tax payer, can only go so far. Time for more people to take a bit of responsibility? That debate is stifled by this frankly immature point scoring by politicians.
The only metric that matters is the one for patient outcomes, everything else is a complete red herring. In this area the NHS is way down the pecking order of developed nations, cancer being a very obvious example.
Even a cursory Google will tell you that privatisation must have some part to play, the US, per capita, put in more than we do from taxation, but also top up private funds as well. They also do better at patient outcomes. The state, and tax payer, can only go so far. Time for more people to take a bit of responsibility? That debate is stifled by this frankly immature point scoring by politicians.
Not wanting to come across as a dick but, can't they just shut the f
k up and get on with it? Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many.
Sick of hearing the same old ste time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it.
I am beginning to view them below the whiney teachers.. STFU, do what you are paid for or remember that choice to do one that you have.
😀😀
k up and get on with it? Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many. Sick of hearing the same old s
te time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it. I am beginning to view them below the whiney teachers.. STFU, do what you are paid for or remember that choice to do one that you have.
😀😀
Pacman1978 said:
Not wanting to come across as a dick but, can't they just shut the fk up and get on with it? Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many.
Sick of hearing the same old ste time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it.
Only on PH!k up and get on with it? Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many. Sick of hearing the same old s
te time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it. Pacman1978 said:
I am beginning to view them below the whiney teachers.. STFU, do what you are paid for or remember that choice to do one that you have.
????
Applies to all careers, public or private sector.????
Moonhawk said:
hifihigh said:
What do you want.
The NHS is the most efficient healthcare system in the western world..
Based on what?The NHS is the most efficient healthcare system in the western world..
This article seems to suggest we are around middle of the road in terms of efficiency (second diagram)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/a...
Something to put things into the context.
and
Legal fees are usually multiples of what claimant gets.
According to International Science Ranking, U.K. is the second leading place in medical research and innovation in the past 20 years. Oxford and Cambridge are some of the most important medical institutions in the world and clearly UK makes some major contributions to the medical world judging by the size and resources of other countries in the ranking like U.S.A, Germany and China.
http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?category=...
Maybe they became like car industries, U.K. can not mass-produce everyday cars like VW but can make the best and unique (arguably) hyper car like Mclaren
http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php?category=...
Maybe they became like car industries, U.K. can not mass-produce everyday cars like VW but can make the best and unique (arguably) hyper car like Mclaren
Edited by ooid on Saturday 14th January 19:45
Pacman1978 said:
Not wanting to come across as a dick but, can't they just shut the fk up and get on with it? Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many.
Sick of hearing the same old ste time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it.
I am beginning to view them below the whiney teachers.. STFU, do what you are paid for or remember that choice to do one that you have.
????
Lol at this. We'll all shut up (disclaimer: Medical Registrar here) and just let the suffering patients / their relatives do all the talking for us, would that suit you more perhaps? k up and get on with it? Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many. Sick of hearing the same old s
te time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it. I am beginning to view them below the whiney teachers.. STFU, do what you are paid for or remember that choice to do one that you have.
????
Just don't come running to us when it's YOU at the receiving end of some shoddy health care. Because when others were speaking out you wanted those concerned about the system to shut up.
jjlynn27 said:
Based on research by Commonwealth Fund. Within Bloomberg article, if you click on 'full data set' you get 'file not found'.
A quick google found this - which appears to be the data that the bloomberg article is based onhttp://www.ospedalesicuro.eu/attachments/article/3...
The point is - we don't have the 'most efficient health service in the world' as was claimed.
Everyday experience dealing with the NHS should make this fact patently obvious.
A few small - but cumulatively, significant examples:
Both me and my wife have long term health conditions requiring daily medication that will not change significantly over time. Yet we still have to make GP appointments every 6 months for a prescription review and renewal. This involves using an entire GP appointment slot to walk in - sit down - the doctor ask "what's wrong" - we say "nothing just need a prescription renewal" - he says "okey dokey" - taps on the computer and it's done. No tests, no interview - most of the time they don't even do routine things like take blood pressure, listen to heart/chest or anything. What a waste of an appointment that somebody else in more urgent need could use.
Until recently, both me and my wife have to submit repeat prescriptions every month. This is despite the fact that surgery has the capability to issue 3 months worth of medication in one go, but have refused to do so. This makes the repeat prescription process 3 times more burdensome on both the surgery and on us. They finally succumbed after we argued the point multiple times. For people on long term, unchanging medication - this should be the norm.
Multiply these things up by hundreds or thousands of patients per surgery.....and it all adds up.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 14th January 20:00
4567231 said:
Lol at this. We'll all shut up (disclaimer: Medical Registrar here) and just let the suffering patients / their relatives do all the talking for us, would that suit you more perhaps?
Just don't come running to us when it's YOU at the receiving end of some shoddy health care. Because when others were speaking out you wanted those concerned about the system to shut up.
Shoddy heath care is mot necessarily indicate of insufficient funding!Just don't come running to us when it's YOU at the receiving end of some shoddy health care. Because when others were speaking out you wanted those concerned about the system to shut up.
jjlynn27 said:
Legal fees are usually multiples of what claimant gets.
A chap in work was recently involved in a car crash (as a passenger) and suffered a fractured sternum which I'd assume would fall into moderate chest injury. He was told by various insurance companies and by doing a bit of research that he shouldn't expect above £3k payout as that was the'standard' figure for that injury.
More people should be encouraged to take private health insurance - taking some of the burden off the NHS. To aid this - private health insurance should not be taxed as a benefit in kind. The loss in tax take on these benefits would IMO be dwarfed by the savings that could be made to the NHS.
Also - the NHS should be more willing to hand off patients to private services. Both myself and my wife have had private health insurance at various times throughout our careers - yet some of the NHS GPs we have highlighted this too seemed awfully reluctant, and in some cases downright resistant to doing a private referral.
You'd think given the 'crisis' the NHS seems to be constantly in - they would be more than happy to offload you at every opportunity.
Also - the NHS should be more willing to hand off patients to private services. Both myself and my wife have had private health insurance at various times throughout our careers - yet some of the NHS GPs we have highlighted this too seemed awfully reluctant, and in some cases downright resistant to doing a private referral.
You'd think given the 'crisis' the NHS seems to be constantly in - they would be more than happy to offload you at every opportunity.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 14th January 20:10
Moonhawk said:
A quick google found this - which appears to be the data that the bloomberg article is based on
http://www.ospedalesicuro.eu/attachments/article/3...
The point is - we don't have the 'most efficient health service in the world' as was claimed.
Everyday experience dealing with the NHS should make this fact patently obvious.
A few small - but cumulatively, significant examples:
Both me and my wife have long term health conditions requiring daily medication that will not change significantly over time. Yet we still have to make GP appointments every 6 months for a prescription review and renewal. This involves using an entire GP appointment slot to walk in - sit down - the doctor ask "what's wrong" - we say "nothing just need a prescription renewal" - he says "okey dokey" - taps on the computer and it's done. No tests, no interview - most of the time they don't even do routine things like take blood pressure, listen to heart/chest or anything. What a waste of an appointment that somebody else in more urgent need could use.
Until recently, both me and my wife have to submit repeat prescriptions every month. This is despite the fact that surgery has the capability to issue 3 months worth of medication in one go, but have refused to do so. This makes the repeat prescription process 3 times more burdensome on both the surgery and on us. They finally succumbed after we argued the point multiple times. For people on long term, unchanging medication - this should be the norm.
Multiply these things up by hundreds or thousands of patients per surgery.....and it all adds up.
Being 10th out of the 33 is not 'middle of the road. It seems that your personal circumstances are clouding your judgment. I can't see going to see doc twice a year, for someone with the chronic condition, particularly taxing. Then again I'm not GP. Are you? http://www.ospedalesicuro.eu/attachments/article/3...
The point is - we don't have the 'most efficient health service in the world' as was claimed.
Everyday experience dealing with the NHS should make this fact patently obvious.
A few small - but cumulatively, significant examples:
Both me and my wife have long term health conditions requiring daily medication that will not change significantly over time. Yet we still have to make GP appointments every 6 months for a prescription review and renewal. This involves using an entire GP appointment slot to walk in - sit down - the doctor ask "what's wrong" - we say "nothing just need a prescription renewal" - he says "okey dokey" - taps on the computer and it's done. No tests, no interview - most of the time they don't even do routine things like take blood pressure, listen to heart/chest or anything. What a waste of an appointment that somebody else in more urgent need could use.
Until recently, both me and my wife have to submit repeat prescriptions every month. This is despite the fact that surgery has the capability to issue 3 months worth of medication in one go, but have refused to do so. This makes the repeat prescription process 3 times more burdensome on both the surgery and on us. They finally succumbed after we argued the point multiple times. For people on long term, unchanging medication - this should be the norm.
Multiply these things up by hundreds or thousands of patients per surgery.....and it all adds up.
Edited by Moonhawk on Saturday 14th January 20:00
I would take research done by Commonwealth fund over Bloomberg rankings. I'm sure, if you look, that there are studies that would put the UK at the bottom of the rankings.
It's always your choice if you are going to believe article in daily mail or Nature or Science.
eccles said:
jjlynn27 said:
Legal fees are usually multiples of what claimant gets.
A chap in work was recently involved in a car crash (as a passenger) and suffered a fractured sternum which I'd assume would fall into moderate chest injury. He was told by various insurance companies and by doing a bit of research that he shouldn't expect above £3k payout as that was the'standard' figure for that injury.
Completely random example.
Pacman1978 said:
Yes times are perplexing but it's the same for many.
True - I was in Costco during the week and the tyre fitters looked very stressed.Pacman1978 said:
Sick of hearing the same old ste time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it.
Do you live in a cave? The Police are always moaning about job cuts, pay, pensions, terrorist threat, mentally ill people etc etc. Apparently pretty well every police officer would leave at the drop of a hat.te time after time. Do we see the police service stamping their foot up and down proclaiming doom gloom and chaos is a foot? Nope they make do and get on with it. jjlynn27 said:
Moonhawk said:
littlegreenfairy said:
10 months. She seems to be 'growing out of it' but will buy it when she's over 1 year if she needs it. The GP was very quick to diagnose it (5mins in and out) and said she doesn't need to be seen again- just handed a repeat prescription!!
It just amazes me that one pharmacy is getting through nearly 3k of milk a month. Just for that one condition. The sheer cost of prescriptions overall must be staggering.
On the subject of it only being available on prescription - just did a search and you can actually buy lactose free baby formula. Both Aptamil and SMA do lactose free variants that are available to buy without prescription.It just amazes me that one pharmacy is getting through nearly 3k of milk a month. Just for that one condition. The sheer cost of prescriptions overall must be staggering.
jjlynn27 said:
Being 10th out of the 33 is not 'middle of the road. It seems that your personal circumstances are clouding your judgment. I can't see going to see doc twice a year, for someone with the chronic condition, particularly taxing. Then again I'm not GP. Are you?
I would take research done by Commonwealth fund over Bloomberg rankings. I'm sure, if you look, that there are studies that would put the UK at the bottom of the rankings.
It's always your choice if you are going to believe article in daily mail or Nature or Science.
I based by estimation on the colour in the picture provided. I'm closer in my estimate than the person who claimed we were top. The point is - there are efficiency gains that could be made.I would take research done by Commonwealth fund over Bloomberg rankings. I'm sure, if you look, that there are studies that would put the UK at the bottom of the rankings.
It's always your choice if you are going to believe article in daily mail or Nature or Science.
Whether it's particularly taxing going for a 6 month review is irrelevant - it's an appointment that doesn't need to be filled by me and isn't adding any value whatsoever. I could just as easily make the request by email or phone, or even just speak to a pharmacist - freeing up the appointment for somebody who needs it more. These might only be small examples and on an individual basis seems unimportant - but multiply that up by the hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of people who have chronic conditions - and that's a lot of unnecessary GP appointments.
Can you provide links to the Commonwealth fund data you are referring to - before resorting to ad-hominem attacks.
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